2023 Free agency and trade thread

[jarntt]

The QB ranking has nothing to do with his value lol

His ranking has nothing to do with how much his trade value is? Seriously?

 

[jarntt]

Its more about tiers than ranking imo.

GOAT: Brady
Franchise: Rodgers, Allen, Mahomes, Burrow, Herbert, Wilson, Stafford
Probably Franchise: Watson, Jackson
Starters: Dak, Cousins, Murray, Carr, Tannehill

At that point, whats the name of the next tier? Does it matter? You're going to have to beat 2-4 of these guys to win a Super Bowl.

I'm not a ranking or a tier guy, just going along with the theme here. My problem with rankings and to some extent tiers is that they assume players ranked (let's say) #14 and #15 are close in talent/value, but in reality there may be a huge drop off between the two. Same with tiers. We can lump a bunch of guys into a "starter" tier, but their values are not necessarily similar - in your example above are Mahomes and Stafford really very close?

 

[Shanemansj13]

His ranking has nothing to do with how much his trade value is? Seriously?

Yes considering every GM has a different ranking...not sure why you are even bringing it up. An upgrade is an upgrade. Money is the issue here, like we've said over and over. All those teams listed as suitors would have an upgrade with Baker as starter. Nobody cares about some qb ranking system bc every GM views players different.

 

[DJ]

You can keep saying it and putting your pretend LOL, but it doesn't make you less wrong.

Even Wentz was traded with little issue and he makes more than Baker and his return was a 3rd and likely a 2nd next year plus a swap of 2nds. So is it that Wentz is top 10?

No, he isn't top 10.....but he is a top 16-18 QB and he's better than Heinicke.

 

[DJ]

Yes considering every GM has a different ranking...not sure why you are even bringing it up. An upgrade is an upgrade. Money is the issue here, like we've said over and over. All those teams listed as suitors would have an upgrade with Baker as starter. Nobody cares about some qb ranking system bc every GM views players different.

They are acting like we're saying he's the future of some team he gets traded to and that's not the case.

He's better than what a lot of teams have currently and in case of an injury.....teams won't want to risk a chance at the playoffs. If the Browns eat say half his contract.....he's a bargain at 9 million for a 4th or 3rd rounder. He had the Browns within grasp of the AFC title game.

 

[DJ]

And he had good seasons in 2018 and 2020, he's due for a good season. Especially, since he was hurt last season.

 

[ducky]

Its more about tiers than ranking imo.

GOAT: Brady
Franchise: Rodgers, Allen, Mahomes, Burrow, Herbert, Wilson, Stafford
Probably Franchise: Watson, Jackson
Starters: Dak, Cousins, Murray, Carr, Tannehill

At that point, whats the name of the next tier? Does it matter? You're going to have to beat 2-4 of these guys to win a Super Bowl.

The important thing to remember too is that there is a tier group that would be listed WAY above Mayfield for guys that might not be as good as him currently.

Guys like Mac Jones, Justin Fields, Zack Wilson, Trevor Lawrence, ect. Teams are hoping to develop a guy who has the talent to be a top 10 guy. Might not be as good as Mayfield NOW but is way more coveted.

The simple fact is that if you are currently the 22th best QB and you are 27 years old in this league you dont now nor have you ever been a guaranteed a starting QB position. And with the cap it is even more pronounced because Baker both this year and in future years has to earn a shit more than a rookie development guy would have to make.

Baker is what he is. No one in their right mind is thinking he has a really good shot of being top 10 QB in any of the upcoming 3-4 years of football.
Let's lump Baker into a historical tier. He currently is looking like a Josh Freeman, Jason Campbell, Chad Pennington tier of QB. Guys who when they are under their rookie deals you are OK with. But the moment they get past the rookie deals, they are going to struggle to find starting gigs and hold them simply because they arent good enough to be considered a top half QB and they arent young enough and there is enough tape on them to know they likely are never going to develop into that top half of the league QB.

 

[ducky]

They are acting like we're saying he's the future of some team he gets traded to and that's not the case.

He's better than what a lot of teams have currently and in case of an injury.....teams won't want to risk a chance at the playoffs. If the Browns eat say half his contract.....he's a bargain at 9 million for a 4th or 3rd rounder. He had the Browns within grasp of the AFC title game.

A bargain to pay about $4M-$5M over league average for what a backup gets paid right now? So much so that you want to give up an early pick to have that said "bargain"?

That's like shopping at 5th Ave in NYC for work shoes.

 

[DJ]

A bargain to pay about $4M-$5M over league average for what a backup gets paid right now? So much so that you want to give up an early pick to have that said "bargain"?

That's like shopping at 5th Ave in NYC for work shoes.

Mayfield is a starting QB in the League, not a backup.

There aren't 18 better starting QB's, much less 32.

 

[DJ]

The important thing to remember too is that there is a tier group that would be listed WAY above Mayfield for guys that might not be as good as him currently.

Guys like Mac Jones, Justin Fields, Zack Wilson, Trevor Lawrence, ect. Teams are hoping to develop a guy who has the talent to be a top 10 guy. Might not be as good as Mayfield NOW but is way more coveted.

The simple fact is that if you are currently the 22th best QB and you are 27 years old in this league you dont now nor have you ever been a guaranteed a starting QB position. And with the cap it is even more pronounced because Baker both this year and in future years has to earn a shit more than a rookie development guy would have to make.

Baker is what he is. No one in their right mind is thinking he has a really good shot of being top 10 QB in any of the upcoming 3-4 years of football.
Let's lump Baker into a historical tier. He currently is looking like a Josh Freeman, Jason Campbell, Chad Pennington tier of QB. Guys who when they are under their rookie deals you are OK with. But the moment they get past the rookie deals, they are going to struggle to find starting gigs and hold them simply because they arent good enough to be considered a top half QB and they arent young enough and there is enough tape on them to know they likely are never going to develop into that top half of the league QB.

He led them to within a hair's reach of the AFC title game.....LOL.

 

[Cincyfan78]

And he had good seasons in 2018 and 2020, he's due for a good season. Especially, since he was hurt last season.

And '21 he was clearly compromised for 3/4 of the season and should have, in all likelihood, been shut down.

I don't think anyone, hopefully, is arguing that he's a top 10 guy as he stands, but he's still got a lot of years ahead of him, and there's certainly some upside: He'll be healthy, and getting to an organization that can offer him some consistency through the next few years to see if that doesn't help bump up his consistency in turn.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Mariota/Ridder going to get wrecked this year

 

[DJ]

And '21 he was clearly compromised for 3/4 of the season and should have, in all likelihood, been shut down.

I don't think anyone, hopefully, is arguing that he's a top 10 guy as he stands, but he's still got a lot of years ahead of him, and there's certainly some upside: He'll be healthy, and getting to an organization that can offer him some consistency through the next few years to see if that doesn't help bump up his consistency in turn.

Keep reading this thread, people acting like he's a scrub.

SMH.

 

[ducky]

He led them to within a hair's reach of the AFC title game.....LOL.

If we are talking about success, why are we even talking about trading for Mayfield when I can have Garoppolo.

Between supply and demand currently, cap space, where rosters are set, the fact that Baker is a FA after this season.....add it ALL up and RIGHT NOW, Baker isnt worth near as much you think he is IMO.

Maybe Cleveland will be able to find someone who thinks like you and actually find a deal. But I am completely skeptical.

 

[jarntt]

Yes considering every GM has a different ranking...not sure why you are even bringing it up. An upgrade is an upgrade. Money is the issue here, like we've said over and over. All those teams listed as suitors would have an upgrade with Baker as starter. Nobody cares about some qb ranking system bc every GM views players different.

Well of course it's the GMs rankings that decide it, not random people on the internet. but the rankings one million percent decide the value. How a team perceives a QB is absolutely playing into how much they will give up and what they think his value is. I don't get how this can even be disputed

Also, he is dirt cheap for a mid tier QB which is what many are calling him here. He isn't and the fact that he couldn't be traded on a somewhat cheap contract proves GMs agree.

 

[Manster7588]

Keep reading this thread, people acting like he's a scrub.

SMH.

Calling him a scrub and having serious questions about him be a QB to lead your team is two different things.

The Browns went after because they don’t see Mayfield as the guy to lead them, teams aren't clamoring to trade for him because his abilty is questionable.

 

[fastforward]

Young guys? Teams only roster 3 or 4 RB's. There is only going to be one guy off the Miami roster last year heading into this year at the position after these signings.

I haven't seen Michel's contract yet but it has to have at least a $1m guarantee in it I would guess. And Mostert's has a $1M guarantee too. Which means its not likely that they will cut either guy after camp.

Miami's approach to RB this year is the most interesting we have seen in quite awhile. Sign not 1, not 2 but 3 vet journeyman to handle the position. They are going to be paying over $10M this season for the position now. I would guess Gaskins would be the cut after camp just so the cap number for the RB position doesn't top $12M.

Gaskin was a borderline roster player who has been in the starting line-up by default. He isn't a by-committee standard RB and I don't think the Dolphins ever had any intention of keeping him on a PPE salary. However, PPE salaries have no guarantees so it doesn't hurt to bring such players into camp. I wouldn't mind the Rams signing Gaskin as a #4 RB at near vet minimum after he's cut and clears waivers, but teams are moving away from keeping 4 RBs on the active roster.

 

[Clayton]

I'm not a ranking or a tier guy, just going along with the theme here. My problem with rankings and to some extent tiers is that they assume players ranked (let's say) #14 and #15 are close in talent/value, but in reality there may be a huge drop off between the two. Same with tiers. We can lump a bunch of guys into a "starter" tier, but their values are not necessarily similar - in your example above are Mahomes and Stafford really very close?

I think Mahomes and Stafford had a similar value last year as weird as that is. But in a way I dont think they're close (age, upside, etc)

The gist Ive gotten is that the league has always valued Stafford and that being on the Lions sucks.

My larger point is just that being the 16th or 18th best QB really isnt valuable at all.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Calling him a scrub and having serious questions about him be a QB to lead your team is two different things.

The Browns went after because they don’t see Mayfield as the guy to lead them, teams aren't clamoring to trade for him because his abilty is questionable.

I don't think it's just about Baker - I think there are multiple factors involved for why teams haven't traded for him. Some of it, for sure, is questioning where he would fit in, but some of it is out of his control (contract, trade demands by Browns, etc...).

 

[ducky]

Gaskin was a borderline roster player who has been in the starting line-up by default. He isn't a by-committee standard RB and I don't think the Dolphins ever had any intention of keeping him on a PPE salary. However, PPE salaries have no guarantees so it doesn't hurt to bring such players into camp. I wouldn't mind the Rams signing Gaskin as a #4 RB at near vet minimum after he's cut and clears waivers, but teams are moving away from keeping 4 RBs on the active roster.

There is flat out so many RB's in this league right now that you can just roster 3 and if you have issues, you can probably find a guy on a street if you need a multi week solution.

But the teams, unlike the Dolphins, that are using the draft and develop approach to RB's (which IMO is the much better way to go), you basically are protecting your rookies in that 4th slot.

I dont know how more teams just arent paying attention to how to properly fill the RB position. Once every 4 drafts you need to use a 2nd/3rd on a guy. That guy should be your stud starter. And then in 2 of the 3 other drafts, you take guys in the 4th to 5th rounds for your backups. You dont even need to use your own picks to get there. Just trade down a little bit in the 1st or 2nd round every year and you can fill your backup RB spots up with "free" draft picks.