2022 Free Agents

[NWinAZ]

The more I think about it, the more I feel that a trade might be the route to go to land a top of the rotation starter.

Something that probably wont happen but I hope we make a phone call at least is to the Indians and check in on Bieber/J-ram

Ya I really don't expect us getting one by trade or by free agency. That is just the Mariner way. The only thing worrying me about trading for a big addition is that it costs us our most value assets (cheap players) and the fact SD went that direction this year and boy did it bite them. Dipoto hasn't had the best record of trading or signing a veteran star all-star caliber player. Can he do it?

 

[NWinAZ]

Would you do this deal? (It was basically equal on one of those trade eval sites.

Sheffield and Raleigh

For

Matt Chapman

 

[NWinAZ]

To put one mystery to rest Seager is gone. Seems like the writing has been on the wall since Mathers comments last winter. The HR numbers look good and all but I dont think his overall production will be difficult to replicate. I actually think that guy could already be on the roster in Toro. 3b is his natural position and he's put a little less then half the Fwar Seager has in about a 1/3 of the games.

Regarding Crawford and the available SSs, I think middle INF is where you need to throw some money at to really improve. Whether that be sign Semien and have him play 2nd or sign one of the SS and move them or Crawford over to 2nd.

The OF has a enough question marks with health or guys not ready that I wouldn't mind signing a 4th OF type. I think Blackmon fits the bill as a buy low bounce back candidate but even though the Rockies situation isnt ideal I dont see him turning down over $20 mil so he probably stays there. Some guys that maybe would work for me there are Chris Taylor (yeah I know), Conforto or Joc Pederson. The latter two havent had good years but again im more thinking of 4th OF option and also given we dont know what's up with Haniger.

SP needs someone at the top of the rotation. Sorry Dipoto/Stanton but its true. Maybe Gilbert gets there at the end of next year but you dont have that guy right now. Rodon is at the top of my wishlist but I also like Eduardo Rodriguez (ERA is bad, but other advanced stats are good). Also the pen needs a LH reliver in a bad way. Its really been lacking all year. I doubt they throw big money at a Robbie Ray or Gausman so ill do my best to think of a more cost effective up. I wouldnt mind 2 starters but given that I think we are stuck with Kikuchi one more year I doubt it happens

There are other things that need addressing like catcher but Ill be as realistic as I can.


C- Raleigh
1B- France
2B- Semien
SS- Crawford
3B- Toro
RF- Joc Pederson
CF- Lewis
LF- Kelenic
DH- Haniger

Bench- Murphy, Moore, Fraley

1. Rodon
2. Gilbert
3. Marco
4. Flexen
5. Dunn/Kikuchi/Sheffield

1. RHP Sewald
2. RHP Castillo
3. RHP Giles
4. RHP Munoz
5. LHP Chafin (I honestly dont know who I want, so kinda picked blindly here)
6. LHP Anthony M
7. RHP Steckenrider
8. RHP Ramirez

I think there will be trades and maybe thats the route we use to fill holes but tried my best to be realistic without spending a ton. I left Torrens out because I dont really see a fit going forward, especially if he's not catching anymore so hopefully he can moved in a package for something.

Okay I will give mine a try. You actually talked me into one SP though I just noticed you didn't have him on your final roster.

C- Raleigh
1B- France
2B- Semien
SS- Crawford
3B- Toro
LF- Kelenic
CF- Taylor
RF- Bryant
DH- Lewis

Bench
Murphy
Moore
Torrens

SP
1- Gonzales
2- Gilbert
3- Eduardo Rodriguez
4- Luis Castillo*
5- Flexen
6- Tyler Anderson or Syndergaard or Dunn

RP
Munoz
Giles
Sadler
Castillo
Steckenrider
Sewald
Ramirez or Misiewicz or Doolitte
Raisel Iglesias

*I trade Sheffield and another prospect to Cinci for Castillo.
Trade Haniger for prospects 1 to 2 years away.
Syndergaard would be a huge gamble but has huge upside. Re-sign Anderson if you want to go safe. Dunn if nothing else.
Still have all Top SP arms in minors ready to go (and we will need them up at some point) as well as Fraley, White, Trammell and several others ready for their chances.

 

[Tapey]

I think really the only players who have earned a spot next year as far as non pitchers go are France And Crawford, Crawford less so with bat and more so with fielding, but when you match averageish O with all world D I’m fine with that at SS. Toro probably earned a spot as well. Everyone else can be replaced. Obviously you keep Kelenic and hope he comes out next year guns blazing. I would love to trade Haninger, sure he’s fine with the stick but he is rated as the worst defensive RF in all of baseball.

I’d also like to issue an apology to @NWinAZ the Mariners definitely should have traded Kikuchi when they could have.

 

[NWinAZ]

I’d also like to issue an apology to @NWinAZ the Mariners definitely should have traded Kikuchi when they could have.

So funny, because I was thinking the other day I actually called that one. I think I am batting .200 which is equivalent to a #6 hitter in the M's lineup.

No apology needed because I would trade 75% of their roster every All-Star break...lol. But thanks.

 

[ulmax]

kuchi's replacment.......if.they dont pick up his contract.and then do not re-sign him...+..or whatever..


Max Scherzer 31
Marco Gonzales 7

Chris Flexen 77

Robbie Ray 38

Logan Gilbert 36

Tyler Anderson 31

i would think anyway..

 

[seahawksfan234]

Man... Normally when it comes to free agency I have very strong opinions but I feel like this year there are so many variables. Every time I look at this roster I see so many different things that could happen.

This would never happen, but feel free to laugh at this idea: Sign Kris Bryant (3B), Marcus Semien (SS) and Max Scherzer. Keep Toro at 2B, trade J.P. Crawford and *insert prospects here* for another top of the rotation pitcher.

It's nice to dream but those moves I think would make the Mariners legit in 2022.

This is how uncertain I am about what the Mariners should do:

I now go back on trading J.P. Crawford. You can't quantify leadership and heart, but man you can tell J.P. Crawford wants to win and watching the Mariners lately you can tell that he's locked in and passionate about winning. I wish that this free agent class wasn't so loaded at SS.

 

[seahawksfan234]

That isn't crazy. I think JP is the heart and soul of the team with his hustle and attitude, but he is no Semien though he is way cheaper. I would 100% do what you proposed. Mariners won't, but you nailed it. Crawford should bring back a good piece.

Funny I just followed up on my post saying I changed my mind on the idea of trading Crawford because he really is the heart and soul of this team.

On paper those moves would make us a much better team, but how do you quantify losing a guy like Crawford? Tough to say. The nerd in me sometime wishes the game were purely played on paper so these types of variables didn't have to be quantified.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Would you do this deal? (It was basically equal on one of those trade eval sites.

Sheffield and Raleigh

For

Matt Chapman

I'm surprised that was considered an equal trade because I'd do that in a heartbeat.

I've completely written off Sheffield at this point and if the goal is contending in 2022, we don't really have the luxury of waiting for Cal Raleigh's bat to come around. The only reason he's getting ABs despite his abysmal performance at the plate is due to his promise, which hasn't really shown at the major league level so far.

Matt Chapman would fill the likely void of Kyle Seager and right now is a buy-low candidate.

 

[NWinAZ]

I'm surprised that was considered an equal trade because I'd do that in a heartbeat.

I've completely written off Sheffield at this point and if the goal is contending in 2022, we don't really have the luxury of waiting for Cal Raleigh's bat to come around. The only reason he's getting ABs despite his abysmal performance at the plate is due to his promise, which hasn't really shown at the major league level so far.

Matt Chapman would fill the likely void of Kyle Seager and right now is a buy-low candidate.

Ya I don't trust that site as much as I once did. I know Chapman is having a down year average wise, but man he can play 3B and hit for power. I doubt A's would do it with one exception, Chapman is going to cost a lot more coming up in arbitration so that is why I was thinking it might be the best time to try.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Okay I will give mine a try. You actually talked me into one SP though I just noticed you didn't have him on your final roster.

C- Raleigh
1B- France
2B- Semien
SS- Crawford
3B- Toro
LF- Kelenic
CF- Taylor
RF- Bryant
DH- Lewis

Bench
Murphy
Moore
Torrens

SP
1- Gonzales
2- Gilbert
3- Eduardo Rodriguez
4- Luis Castillo*
5- Flexen
6- Tyler Anderson or Syndergaard or Dunn

RP
Munoz
Giles
Sadler
Castillo
Steckenrider
Sewald
Ramirez or Misiewicz or Doolitte
Raisel Iglesias

*I trade Sheffield and another prospect to Cinci for Castillo.
Trade Haniger for prospects 1 to 2 years away.
Syndergaard would be a huge gamble but has huge upside. Re-sign Anderson if you want to go safe. Dunn if nothing else.
Still have all Top SP arms in minors ready to go (and we will need them up at some point) as well as Fraley, White, Trammell and several others ready for their chances.

Here are some of my thoughts on your proposals:

C - Raleigh: Not going to lie, since reading your trade idea of Sheffield and Raleigh for Chapman I have convinced myself the Mariners might be better off leveraging Raleigh's value and trying to trade him. The offensive output we've had from our catchers has to be at the bottom of the league and could be a position the Mariners might want to look at upgrading.
RF - Bryant/3B Toro: Toro has really cooled off since we acquired him and if we added Bryant I'd rather put him at 3B.
CF - Taylor: Under your current proposal this would pretty much lock us in with Kelenic, Taylor and Bryant in the and Lewis at DH. With the way Julio Rodriguez has played in the minors, I find it unlikely that he doesn't get a call up in 2022.
DH - Lewis: I see the logic putting him at DH with his injury history, but I'm not convinced that even putting him at DH will protect him from his chronic knee problems. I would actually proceed this offseason under the impression that Lewis may suffer another setback/won't regularly be available.

I would trade Haniger, but not for prospects. I don't know how plausible this is but I would trade him to a team for an established top of the rotation pitcher.

Sort of a random rant... I've always been pro-Haniger but watching him this year I don't know how the hell he has the numbers at the plate he does with his approach at the plate. The guy swings like a windmill at just about any pitch hoping to hit it out of the park. It has somehow worked out well for him, but I actually feel like he's a guy who is somewhat overrated at this point.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Ya I don't trust that site as much as I once did. I know Chapman is having a down year average wise, but man he can play 3B and hit for power. I doubt A's would do it with one exception, Chapman is going to cost a lot more coming up in arbitration so that is why I was thinking it might be the best time to try.

This might be a bit of a hot take but I believe Chapman to be the best defensive third baseman I've ever seen. Even with his current batting average woes, I'd still consider him a top-10 3rd baseman in baseball given his defense and power.

 

[Podunkparte]

Sort of a random rant... I've always been pro-Haniger but watching him this year I don't know how the hell he has the numbers at the plate he does with his approach at the plate. The guy swings like a windmill at just about any pitch hoping to hit it out of the park. It has somehow worked out well for him, but I actually feel like he's a guy who is somewhat overrated at this point.

 

[NWinAZ]

C - Raleigh: Not going to lie, since reading your trade idea of Sheffield and Raleigh for Chapman I have convinced myself the Mariners might be better off leveraging Raleigh's value and trying to trade him. The offensive output we've had from our catchers has to be at the bottom of the league and could be a position the Mariners might want to look at upgrading.

I just don't see them trading him though. I 100% agree they need better catching numbers, but he is cheap and has the Top Prospect label still on him buying the M's a couple years before they get pressured by fans to move him.

RF - Bryant/3B Toro: Toro has really cooled off since we acquired him and if we added Bryant I'd rather put him at 3B.

He has actually played more games in the outfield this year than at 3B plus I am not giving up on Toro yet. He needs to play every day to see what he really is. I think he has game, but it just struggling since coming over. He doesn't look lost like most M's youngsters.

CF - Taylor: Under your current proposal this would pretty much lock us in with Kelenic, Taylor and Bryant in the and Lewis at DH. With the way Julio Rodriguez has played in the minors, I find it unlikely that he doesn't get a call up in 2022.

If you want to make the playoffs, you can't hold positions on 'If' and 'Whens'. They can always find a spot for a guy that knocks down the door like Griffey did in 1989. And the reason I like Taylor, if Rod does knock down the door he plays OF and Taylor moves back into the infield possibly replacing Toro if he doesn't come around.

DH - Lewis: I see the logic putting him at DH with his injury history, but I'm not convinced that even putting him at DH will protect him from his chronic knee problems. I would actually proceed this offseason under the impression that Lewis may suffer another setback/won't regularly be available.

Probably true, but moving him from DH to OF week to week gives him his best show at staying healthy. You can't trade him now with his history so you have to play it out.

I would trade Haniger, but not for prospects. I don't know how plausible this is but I would trade him to a team for an established top of the rotation pitcher.

Ya you won't get an Ace for him. With his injury history and the fact he is only signed through 2022, you are getting prospects and not Top 5 organization ones either. I would say you get a #6-10 guy and a #20-25 guy for him plus a long shot minor league guy.

Sort of a random rant... I've always been pro-Haniger but watching him this year I don't know how the hell he has the numbers at the plate he does with his approach at the plate. The guy swings like a windmill at just about any pitch hoping to hit it out of the park. It has somehow worked out well for him, but I actually feel like he's a guy who is somewhat overrated at this point.

I commented about that several weeks back on here. He swings as some of the worst pitches I have seen and he is considered a solid hitter. It is odd.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Pena actually had a great breakdown of Haniger's swing. It makes a little more sense now how he's able to make the kind of contact he does.

 

[Podunkparte]

Pena actually had a great breakdown of Haniger's swing. It makes a little more sense now how he's able to make the kind of contact he does.

Yeah, people often talk about how long his bat stays in the hitting zone and his bent leg is a big reason why. He's able to adjust midswing rather than being caught chasing either a fastball or offspeed pitch. His ability to hit both is probably part of why he does end up swinging at some bad pitches, because he doesn't have to give up on many of them due to his approach.

Can be frustrating at times, but I feel like it pays off more often than not. I prefer his approach far more than Seager's all or nothing swing.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I just don't see them trading him though. I 100% agree they need better catching numbers, but he is cheap and has the Top Prospect label still on him buying the M's a couple years before they get pressured by fans to move him.


He has actually played more games in the outfield this year than at 3B plus I am not giving up on Toro yet. He needs to play every day to see what he really is. I think he has game, but it just struggling since coming over. He doesn't look lost like most M's youngsters.


If you want to make the playoffs, you can't hold positions on 'If' and 'Whens'. They can always find a spot for a guy that knocks down the door like Griffey did in 1989. And the reason I like Taylor, if Rod does knock down the door he plays OF and Taylor moves back into the infield possibly replacing Toro if he doesn't come around.


Probably true, but moving him from DH to OF week to week gives him his best show at staying healthy. You can't trade him now with his history so you have to play it out.


Ya you won't get an Ace for him. With his injury history and the fact he is only signed through 2022, you are getting prospects and not Top 5 organization ones either. I would say you get a #6-10 guy and a #20-25 guy for him plus a long shot minor league guy.


I commented about that several weeks back on here. He swings as some of the worst pitches I have seen and he is considered a solid hitter. It is odd.

I think you're right that Raleigh isn't going anywhere, but the offensive production from our catchers needs to improve a lot for it not to be a glaring hole in our lineuo.

I actually was unaware that Bryant had played more games in the outfield this year. I like Toro a lot, but given the offensive output that Seager has had at third this year, you have to wonder if Toro will be able to replicate that. I might be in the minority here, but part of me really wants to see the Mariners have a great offseason and Seager somehow still on the team. I don't know how that would play out given the scenarios we've discussed and the roster we have, but if the Mariners aren't able to add *insert elite FA middle infielder here* or find an upgrade at 3B over Seager, I wouldn't mind the Mariners bringing Seager back on a one year deal.

That's actually a good point on Chris Taylor that I didn't really consider. One of the things I do like about your suggestion of adding Bryant and Taylor is it does give us great versatility in where we play those guys.

I don't really know how I feel about the Kyle Lewis situation. You're right that putting him at DH would likely preserve his health, but I think part of me feels like putting an athlete like Kyle Lewis at DH would be a shame.

I think you're right regarding the package we'd receive for Haniger if we were just shooting for prospects, but I think if we packaged him and a few other guys we could likely get a high end starter. I actually don't think Haniger's injury history would hurt him as poorly as you'd think. He missed a ton of time due to the ball he took to... well I'll let you fill that in, and then had a setback in his rehab. After all of the time Haniger missed, if I'm a GM I'd say the fact that he was able to come back after that speaks volumes about his physical and mental conditioning.

@Podunkparte's video actually helps make Haniger's approach at the plate make a little more sense. I think Haniger swings at those awful pitches because he's able to somehow able to make the type of contact that he does.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Yeah, people often talk about how long his bat stays in the hitting zone and his bent leg is a big reason why. He's able to adjust midswing rather than being caught chasing either a fastball or offspeed pitch. His ability to hit both is probably part of why he does end up swinging at some bad pitches, because he doesn't have to give up on many of them due to his approach.

Can be frustrating at times, but I feel like it pays off more often than not. I prefer his approach far more than Seager's all or nothing swing.

I think my biggest frustration with Haniger is that if he laid off some of those balls outside the zone he would get on base more and likely receive better pitches to hit.

 

[Podunkparte]

I think my biggest frustration with Haniger is that if he laid off some of those balls outside the zone he would get on base more and likely receive better pitches to hit.

It would probably also help if we'd had a legit threat, someone hitting .300+ hitting behind him for most of the year. Why give in to him if Seager's .210 was lurking there all season? France might turn into that guy here shortly, but that wasn't happening for most of the season up until the last week or so.

 

[Tapey]

It would probably also help if we'd had a legit threat, someone hitting .300+ hitting behind him for most of the year. Why give in to him if Seager's .210 was lurking there all season? France might turn into that guy here shortly, but that wasn't happening for most of the season up until the last week or so.

France’s power numbers are coming on as of late, he’s been a pretty good hitter for almost all season, except when he tried to play through his wrist injury. Also idk why Seager has been put in the 3 hole for most of the season, sure he has the home runs and rbis, but when looking at advanced metrics, he’s like averageish?