2022-23 Flyers: How about just less suck?

[Maverick426h]

Culture wise, I agree with that. Hextall's rebuild was a failure, that can't be argued. But Fletcher has left himself no way of improving the team. For next year, not including Ellis' 6.25M, the Flyers already have 68M on the cap. 10F, 5D, 2G. So 13M available and they need 6 guys to fill out the roster. There's no space there to add anything of consequence. The only options are to rob someone in a trade, which Fletcher sure as hell doesn't seem capable of; or to find a stud in the draft on an ELC. The latter of which they likely won't do without a high draft pick.

There just isn't a plan to get beyond middle of the pack. That's the whole problem. Hextall pinned his hopes on guys like TK, Provorov, Sanheim, Farabee, and Hart turning in to all-star level players. They didn't. Rebuild failed. Fletcher's best chance at getting beyond the middle of the pack is still if TK, Provorov, Sanheim, Farabee and Hart turn in to all-star level players. Maybe you can add York (who, at almost 22 yrs old, didn't make the team when given every chance to) and Gauthier to the list. But we're no better off than we were. All Fletcher has done is completely botch the cap, raised the floor of the teams potential and handicapped them from raising the ceiling.

They've won some games. They've battled hard to come back. Great. Good progress in the culture department. I don't want to be a debbie downer, but they're getting outstanding goaltending and have 5 guys shooting over 20% right now (Matthews is the best shooter in the league and was 17% last year). What are the chances that either of those things hold up? They're getting 37% of the scoring chances per game so far, 3rd worst in the league. Not exactly a recipe for sustained success. And sure as heck not a building block for a cup contender.

Now it's technically 6 guys shooting over 20%...Lol Sure, it's not sustainable, but also, we have 4 critical players who have yet to even score (2 of which that have yet to even play). Hayes, Farabee, Couturier and Atkinson. The production from these guys altogether would equate to a lot of our offense in any given season, but especially this one. Once they are all healthy and going on all cylinders, that certainly makes up for drop-offs elsewhere and improves the team in all areas significantly.

This is random, but honestly, imagine if we just had our current defense and goalies with a forward group full of Scott Laughton's. Yep, 14 of him. 14 x 3 = 42 So, that's a $42M cap hit compared to the just over $41M cap hit we have right now amongst our forwards. We'd probably be the toughest team in the Nhl to play against. Silly and funny, but true.

I guess the point is Torts said Laughton is the closest thing we have to a captain. Well, there's a reason for that. We're perhaps seeing already that there's a lot of value in being a team that has the mindset of going to war every night and doing absolutely anything to get those two points. Like we saw against Tampa, the skill/talent matters less at that point. It's who wants this more?

You could've told anyone on the planet that Tampa was leading us 2-0 at home with two pp goals from Stamkos (knowing that they had also beaten us 10 straight times) and nobody in their right mind would've said we could recover and win that game. Not a fucking chance in hell...Lol That one game and result has me thinking this team is different.

 

[lasgop8]

Culture wise, I agree with that. Hextall's rebuild was a failure, that can't be argued. But Fletcher has left himself no way of improving the team. For next year, not including Ellis' 6.25M, the Flyers already have 68M on the cap. 10F, 5D, 2G. So 13M available and they need 6 guys to fill out the roster. There's no space there to add anything of consequence. The only options are to rob someone in a trade, which Fletcher sure as hell doesn't seem capable of; or to find a stud in the draft on an ELC. The latter of which they likely won't do without a high draft pick.

There just isn't a plan to get beyond middle of the pack. That's the whole problem. Hextall pinned his hopes on guys like TK, Provorov, Sanheim, Farabee, and Hart turning in to all-star level players. They didn't. Rebuild failed. Fletcher's best chance at getting beyond the middle of the pack is still if TK, Provorov, Sanheim, Farabee and Hart turn in to all-star level players. Maybe you can add York (who, at almost 22 yrs old, didn't make the team when given every chance to) and Gauthier to the list. But we're no better off than we were. All Fletcher has done is completely botch the cap, raised the floor of the teams potential and handicapped them from raising the ceiling.

They've won some games. They've battled hard to come back. Great. Good progress in the culture department. I don't want to be a debbie downer, but they're getting outstanding goaltending and have 5 guys shooting over 20% right now (Matthews is the best shooter in the league and was 17% last year). What are the chances that either of those things hold up? They're getting 37% of the scoring chances per game so far, 3rd worst in the league. Not exactly a recipe for sustained success. And sure as heck not a building block for a cup contender.

Whoa slow down cowboy. Our first goal is to get back to the middle of the pack with what the players we have today and if that happens it will be a huge jump from being in the bottom 4 in the league. Everything else is just trying to foercast what you think will be happening. I can remember 5/6 years ago you putting up posts just like this about how great we will be with Hextall as GM and our future draft picks and the great signing of JVR.
Just let it play out a day at a time and we can see how it goes.

 

[lasgop8]

You guys are probably right about the long-term prognosis of where this team is going and will eventually arrive at but something tells me that Torts just may be taking his own youngsters and training them into fighters hoping the Vets catch the positivity in that approach or buy-in to what Torts is selling.

If I am right about this approach, we will have a good foundation for more growth next year even though we may not have a high pick to facilitate a greater growth. As awaz, lasgop, chrispy and others have stated, the culture has changed and that may make the difference this year to move up a few notches north of mid-pack.

We will know in the next 5 to 10 games if the old reality takes over or the new culture-based approach gets us wins we all didn't expect. Afterall, I was one of the loudest debbie-downers before the season started, so if I am wrong, it will be plates of crow to consume.

Great post!!!!

 

[purdue81]

Great post!!!!

It is a good post. Tortellini will not coddle the Vets. Atkinson has said as much. Previous coaching staffs seemed to be at the mercy of the locker room dynamics set by the “untouchables”. So now you have Torts focusing on young players that are hungry, and having tr attitude - I’m not wasting my energy on anyone that doesn’t want to work hard. I may be stuck with you on my roster, but I am not stuck with paying attention to your attitude.

 

[awaz]

Whoa slow down cowboy. Our first goal is to get back to the middle of the pack with what the players we have today and if that happens it will be a huge jump from being in the bottom 4 in the league. Everything else is just trying to foercast what you think will be happening. I can remember 5/6 years ago you putting up posts just like this about how great we will be with Hextall as GM and our future draft picks and the great signing of JVR.
Just let it play out a day at a time and we can see how it goes.

Gotta have a long term vision of it or the steps you take today can screw you tomorrow.

If the long term plan is winning the cup, and you’re getting to middle of the pack at the expense of the steps beyond that, are you really making progress?

 

[purdue81]

Gotta have a long term vision of it or the steps you take today can screw you tomorrow.

If the long term plan is winning the cup, and you’re getting to middle of the pack at the expense of the steps beyond that, are you really making progress?

I don’t know where I’m going, but I know where I’ve been —— Jimmy Buffet

 

[Retroram52]

I agree with everyone on the wait-and-see approach. It will be the revealer of the real state of this team as the season goes forward but I am with Maverick, awaz, lasgop, flyerfin, purdue, who have stated that the culture is noticeably different and that is a very good place to start in building that much needed foundation for future positive results.

 

[lasgop8]

Gotta have a long term vision of it or the steps you take today can screw you tomorrow.

If the long term plan is winning the cup, and you’re getting to middle of the pack at the expense of the steps beyond that, are you really making progress?

Lets make progress in year one first then we can go from there.

We still haven't made it to the middle yet so lets take it slow.

 

[lasgop8]

Im headed to Florida until next week so im counting on you guys to give solid analysis of the next two games.

Lets get at least 3 of 4 points!!!!

 

[Maverick426h]

As far as TK, Provorov, Sanheim, Farabee and Hart not being All-Star caliber players, that's fair. TK has been there before and is certainly on that pace again this season. Provorov may never get there, but if he can duplicate his success from his 2nd or 4th seasons repeatedly, we're good with that. He's pretty much rock solid with those numbers. Sanheim you definitely feel like his best is yet to come or he's a bit of a bust. Farabee is very young and definitely has time to get there. Hart is playing like an All-Star right now and will probably get there this season if we continue to help him out at the same rate again and again. Wouldn't be surprised if 3 of the 5 become All-Star caliber and the two defenseman can get by just being solid and not necessarily putting up huge offensive numbers.

 

[Retroram52]

Spot on Maverick and I agree about Hart. He is def playing awesome already!!

 

[Maverick426h]

Gotta have a long term vision of it or the steps you take today can screw you tomorrow.

If the long term plan is winning the cup, and you’re getting to middle of the pack at the expense of the steps beyond that, are you really making progress?

Well, at this stage though, I'm going to argue that as bad as we've been over the last two seasons (50 wins and 88 losses), it's time to at least attempt to change the entire culture of the team and get back to respectability. This is where John Tortorella comes in. As beneficial as it may be for the future of the franchise to finish in the bottom 3 or so of the Nhl this season, I think it's equally (if not more) beneficial to instill a winning culture, play our asses off and let the chips fall where they may. Whether that means we finish 2nd in the East, 6th in the East, 10th in the East or 14th in the East, so be it. We already have Cutter Gauthier coming. He just scored a goal in his first college game with BC. If we can successfully draft a top line center this year or next (three 1st round picks), we will be well on our way.

Bottom line: I can't root for this team to tank, especially not after seeing the first four games. We can be a team that surprises some people. If we were to sneak into the playoffs with a hot goalie and rock solid, team defense, you never know how far that could take us.

 

[Retroram52]

Me neither and I think we all agree Maverick!

 

[purdue81]

Me neither and I think we all agree Maverick!

Agree - we all just want to see the players play hard - and with some amount of discipline. Let the chips fall where they may.

 

[Chris p Bacon]

Im headed to Florida until next week so im counting on you guys to give solid analysis of the next two games.

Lets get at least 3 of 4 points!!!!

No tvs in Florida?

 

[Retroram52]

Well Gents, another nice win on the road. WE are 4 and 1 and Farabee, MacEwen, and Hayes scored goals. We had two goals in the First Period. Hart is still playing at a very high level with 30+ saves with 1 goal allowed. Torts' Flyers are still bringing it. The Flyers get home tomorrow to face San Jose on another back-to-backer.

 

[Maverick426h]

Another great team win on the road. Hayes grabs the lead early for us off a very nice steal and pass by Farabee early in the 1st and we never looked back from there. MacEwen storms off the bench in place of Konecny late in the period, finds a loose puck in the slot, skate to stick and buries it for his first as well to make it 2-0. No scoring in the second period. Farabee adds the insurance marker with his 1st goal too midway through the 3rd period. Unfortunately Duchene spoils what should've been a shutout by Hart late via a 6 on 4 power play.

The guys who need to score are scoring. It's really been scoring by committee and it's working so far. Again, all three goal scorers tonight got their 1st of the season and Farabee, who was pointless entering the night, had 3 of them and could've had more, really. I believe it was in the 1st period that Saros stopped a shot by Farabee literally right on the goal line with his stick that temporarily kept him without a goal.

 

[FlyerFinFan]

I forgo to mention the other day that this team has a HART so you never know. Actually he's being helped with some awesome team D and that's how you win in this league. I'm not writing them off or predicting a cup but it sure is fun to watch. Preds announcers were spellbound.

 

[Maverick426h]

I forgo to mention the other day that this team has a HART so you never know. Actually he's being helped with some awesome team D and that's how you win in this league. I'm not writing them off or predicting a cup but it sure is fun to watch. Preds announcers were spellbound.

Here, I'll back that up for you. Hart is 4-0-0 with a 1.75 GAA and .949 SV%. Sure, you can argue that it's not sustainable (and it probably isn't), but he could see a drop in those numbers and still challenge for the Jennings and the Vezina. We're also without Couturier still, so a Selke winner is on his way back and he'll be at 100% too. He will help reduce our goals against in many ways, including winning faceoffs, which we struggled with yesterday.

It's definitely reason to get a little pumped up and excited about the near future.

 

[Retroram52]

Hart is playing lights-out and something tells me it will continue if he remains healthy! I am fairly certain Torts had a long chat with Mr. Hart way back in training camp and the results are evident!