2019 Hall of Fame Ballot

[Montalban]

Which is nuts especially when talking about guys from pre-1950. The level of competition is so much tougher today.

Except for the pitching. The pitchers today are bitches compared to the old guys who'd throw 200 pitches and be ready 3 days later. Now they've got pitch counts and 4 days between starts and they still can't go more than 6 or 7.
I think baseball is the one sport where that's not necessarily true. If you are telling me that the Dimaggio, Mantle and Berra Yankees of the 50s couldn't play with the Yankees of today I'd have to hear your reasoning.

 

[Montalban]

Part of the allure is also the misconception that the past is better than the current... Once you become a legend people forget how Human you were...

Well said. Good point.

 

[StanMarsh51]

I think part of the allure of the older guys is that starting pitching was so much more important back then than it is today. Its about the bullpen these days, but in those days it was all about the starting rotation.

But Halladay was a workhorse, although had a relatively short career....he had a 10 year stretch averaging 220 innings and threw at least 239 innings in 5 seasons (with 2 of them being over 250 innings).

 

[Montalban]

But Halladay was a workhorse, although had a relatively short career....he had a 10 year stretch averaging 220 innings and threw at least 239 innings in 5 seasons (with 2 of them being over 250 innings).

He was a horse for his time. And that's all you can go by. I looked up a couple of pitchers off the top of my head who I remember as a kid though, Marichal, Drysdale and Bunning, and they were regularly in the 300s. Probably many others as well but I suppose you can't compare different eras

 

[calsnowskier]

He was a horse for his time. And that's all you can go by. I looked up a couple of pitchers off the top of my head who I remember as a kid though, Marichal, Drysdale and Bunning, and they were regularly in the 300s. Probably many others as well but I suppose you can't compare different eras

A lot of that, I think, is that relievers, on average, were not that good. Baseball was hard to make a living at in those days, and if you weren’t a star, you got a “real job”. Therefore, the drop off from starter to middle reliever so sooo drastic they didn’t even have middle relievers.

That, and game prep is to a point today that when a pitcher gets to even 85% effective, he can’t get MLB hitters out anymore. In the past, it was much more of a head game rather than a physical game.

 

[StanMarsh51]

He was a horse for his time. And that's all you can go by. I looked up a couple of pitchers off the top of my head who I remember as a kid though, Marichal, Drysdale and Bunning, and they were regularly in the 300s. Probably many others as well but I suppose you can't compare different eras

And how many of those guys had fastballs averaging in the 90s like today?

The average fastball has increased from about 88.5 to almost 92mph in the past ~15 years....imagine how much lower it was 40 years ago. The lower innings amount comes with faster pitching speeds.

 

[navamind]

too bad those guys wouldn't come close to pitching 300 innings in this era

 

[nynasty]

Except for the pitching. The pitchers today are bitches compared to the old guys who'd throw 200 pitches and be ready 3 days later. Now they've got pitch counts and 4 days between starts and they still can't go more than 6 or 7.
I think baseball is the one sport where that's not necessarily true. If you are telling me that the Dimaggio, Mantle and Berra Yankees of the 50s couldn't play with the Yankees of today I'd have to hear your reasoning.

Not saying they couldn't play, just saying they had it easier. Dimaggio moreso than the other 2, who did play a larger portion of their careers after the game had become integrated.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Not saying they couldn't play, just saying they had it easier. Dimaggio moreso than the other 2, who did play a larger portion of their careers after the game had become integrated.

Every era has its own identity though... I do think that the best of the best of any era would be stars now too... But there actual stats are exaggerated due to era played in...

 

[Montalban]

A lot of that, I think, is that relievers, on average, were not that good. Baseball was hard to make a living at in those days, and if you weren’t a star, you got a “real job”. Therefore, the drop off from starter to middle reliever so sooo drastic they didn’t even have middle relievers.

That, and game prep is to a point today that when a pitcher gets to even 85% effective, he can’t get MLB hitters out anymore. In the past, it was much more of a head game rather than a physical game.

Agreed. When I was a kid the relievers were the guys who couldn't cut it as a starter. I remember when guys like Fingers, Sutter, Gossage and Eckersley came along. That seemed to be the turning point for relievers. Know it seems there is a relief specialist for every situation.

Not saying they couldn't play, just saying they had it easier. Dimaggio moreso than the other 2, who did play a larger portion of their careers after the game had become integrated.

Its amazing with the absurd political climate today where everything goes and no one group of minorities can be even remotely criticized that they could get away with banning an entire race of people from the sport.

 

[msgkings322]

So some asshat named Sadiel Lebron voted for Clemens but not Bonds. Another idiot who shouldn't get a vote.

 

[calsnowskier]

So some asshat named Sadiel Lebron voted for Clemens but not Bonds. Another idiot who shouldn't get a vote.

That name sounds familiar. I think he did the same thing last year.

 

[msgkings322]

That name sounds familiar. I think he did the same thing last year.

Yeah the name is familiar, dude won the 2016 NBA title for the Cavaliers.

 

[tducey]

Clemens is at 75% currently. Still very early but I think he's going to get in by 2020 or 2021.

 

[DefCONNOne]

So some asshat named Sadiel Lebron voted for Clemens but not Bonds. Another idiot who shouldn't get a vote.

Oh good we're still on the "if you don't vote for who I want, that means you should lose your vote!" train. I was worried there for a moment.

 

[Shoeshine Boy]

Well ya gotta admit there's no logical justification for voting for one of Clemens and Bonds and not the other.

 

[msgkings322]

Oh good we're still on the "if you don't vote for who I want, that means you should lose your vote!" train. I was worried there for a moment.

Never heard of that train
I'm on the "if you vote like a retard you shouldn't have a vote" train.

 

[calsnowskier]

Oh good we're still on the "if you don't vote for who I want, that means you should lose your vote!" train. I was worried there for a moment.

Come on dude, don’t be a doosh.

It is about splitting the Bonds/Clemens vote. There is absolutely zero logic behind that. Anyone who does that is a Skip Bayless level troll, and should lose their credentials and be ignored by everyone.

 

[DefCONNOne]

Come on dude, don’t be a doosh.

It is about splitting the Bonds/Clemens vote. There is absolutely zero logic behind that. Anyone who does that is a Skip Bayless level troll, and should lose their credentials and be ignored by everyone.

This is exactly the type of thinking i'm ridiculing. I don't care who you are and who you would vote for. when you start demanding someone lose a vote they legally acquired, because you disagree with who they vote for, I'm gonna call out that thinking.

Like the idiocy that is calling for the loss of voting privileges because you didn't vote for Mariano Rivera, or next year Derek Jeter. If I had a vote I might not vote for either player, because they're getting in with or without my vote.

 

[rjshull]

This is exactly the type of thinking i'm ridiculing. I don't care who you are and who you would vote for. when you start demanding someone lose a vote they legally acquired, because you disagree with who they vote for, I'm gonna call out that thinking.

Like the idiocy that is calling for the loss of voting privileges because you didn't vote for Mariano Rivera, or next year Derek Jeter. If I had a vote I might not vote for either player, because they're getting in with or without my vote.

So you would vote for a lesser player because why? If you have a vote you should vote for who is the best candidate, not because you are sure they are or are not getting in.