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2019 Hall of Fame Ballot

Discussion in 'MLB Baseball Forum' started by navamind, Nov 9, 2018.

  1. navamind

    navamind Well-Known Member

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  2. navamind

    navamind Well-Known Member

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    my imaginary ballot:

    Barry Bonds
    Roger Clemens
    Edgar Martinez
    Mike Mussina
    Roy Halladay
    Scott Rolen
    Manny Ramirez
    Larry Walker
    Curt Schilling
    Mariano Rivera

    HM: Andruw Jones, on the fence with Wagner
     
  3. StanMarsh51

    StanMarsh51 Well-Known Member

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    Today's Game Era ballot:

    Harold Baines
    Albert Belle
    Joe Carter
    Will Clark
    Orel Hershiser
    Davey Johnson
    Charlie Manuel
    Lou Piniella
    Lee Smith
    George Steinbrenner



    Given that Jack Morris made it last year, it's certainly a possibility that Lee Smith gets in :rolleyes2:
     
  4. MilkSpiller22

    MilkSpiller22 Gorilla

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    mine:

    Barry Bonds
    Roger Clemens
    Roy Halladay
    Mariano Rivera
    Curt Schilling
    ___________

    Sammy Sosa- if you let in the steroid players, he belongs(600+ HRs)
    Manny Ramirez
    Billy Wagner- Best lefty closer of all time
    Todd Helton
    Omar Vizquel- Defense matters too!!! and he is a SS

    Honorable mention- Edgar Martinez, Larry Walker, Andruw Jones

    The top 5 IMO are no brainers

    The next 5 under the separation mark, I debated for and against them... and not sure how strongly I like their HOF case
     
  5. StanMarsh51

    StanMarsh51 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure why you'd put Helton above Walker....Walker was better offensively and defensively over their careers.
     
  6. MilkSpiller22

    MilkSpiller22 Gorilla

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    yea, that was a tough one... Basically because of longevity, and Walker really never played 140+ games in a season(only doing it 4 times). and both are BA guys, and Helton Had over a 1000 more ABs and had a higher BA...
     
  7. StanMarsh51

    StanMarsh51 Well-Known Member

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    Yea, Walker's health was an issue, but one of the things that elevates him imo is that he hit at a high level outside of Colorado (he was a borderline elite hitter his last few years with Montreal and he was good with the Cards at the end of his career).

    Plus he was a top tier defender in RF for much of his career, and stole 230 bases to boot.
     
  8. MilkSpiller22

    MilkSpiller22 Gorilla

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    Borderline is pretty generous... sure it looked like he was IMPROVING... But he only had 2 seasons with a BA over .300, and only one of those seasons was REALLY good...
     
  9. nynasty

    nynasty nynasty

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    Can't wait to see who's gonna leave Mo off their ballot.

    Cuz you know some jackass is.
     
  10. StanMarsh51

    StanMarsh51 Well-Known Member

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    In both his 1992 and 1994 seasons with Montreal, Walker finished top 10 in the league in OPS, WAR, RBI, total bases, and his batting avg was 3 points away from being in the top 10 in 1994 (he was 8th in 1992)....his OPS+ was 141 and 151 in those seasons.

    I'd call those seasons borderline elite...



    And at age 37-38 with St. Louis when he was well past his prime, he hit .286 with 26 HR, 95 runs and a .908 OPS in 144 games.
     
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  11. MilkSpiller22

    MilkSpiller22 Gorilla

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    I can definitely agree that Peak Walker was better than Peak Helton... But I don't think either peaks are dominant enough to get them into the HOF by itself... So IMO longevity is the biggest thing comparing these 2... and I would take Helton's career stats over Walkers, when factoring in longevity...
     
  12. Terry Rode

    Terry Rode I Will Debate You. Don't Take It Personally.

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    My ballot would be Rivera, Clemens, Halladay, Schilling, Pettite and Bonds. Bonds, in my opinion, was a HoF before 73 even happened.

    But we all know Pettite, Clemens and Bonds ain't getting in.
     
  13. MilkSpiller22

    MilkSpiller22 Gorilla

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    well, pettitte doesn't really belong...
     
  14. nynasty

    nynasty nynasty

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    Re: Steinbrenner-No one who has ever been banned from baseball, regardless of duration, has ever been inducted into the HOF.

    Seems to be some support though, so will be interesting to watch.
     
  15. StanMarsh51

    StanMarsh51 Well-Known Member

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    Helton's longevity isn't that much longer than Walker's to be a dealbreaker imo, and that added longevity was largely Helton playing his last 4 years when he was mediocre for the most part, so it's not as if he was providing much value then.



    Had Helton retired 4 years earlier he would've had roughly the same amount of plate appearances as Walker, and the career stats would've been:

    Helton - .324 AVG, .953 OPS, (133 OPS+), 324 HR, 1239 RBI, 1401 R, 37 SB
    Walker - .313 AVG, .965 OPS, (141 OPS+), 383 HR, 1311 RBI, 1355 R, 230 SB

    And then we take into account that Walker provided much more value in the field, and Walker's WAR is easily better than Helton's.
     
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  16. MilkSpiller22

    MilkSpiller22 Gorilla

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    that is very close... But the Biggest difference number I see is still BA... .324 is something special... even if it is Colorado... So even if Helton Retired 4 years earlier, I would still take Helton's Longevity Career Over Walkers...
     
  17. Terry Rode

    Terry Rode I Will Debate You. Don't Take It Personally.

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    I think he does. Pettite has more career wins and strikeouts than Halladay and has 5 titles. Halladay has more Cy Young Awards and a better career ERA. Pettite also has had a ton more postseason success than Halladay, including an ALCS MVP award. I think they are definitely both deserving.
     
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  18. MilkSpiller22

    MilkSpiller22 Gorilla

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    Don't even know where to start!!! this post is all sorts of wrong...


    But it looks like you ONLY look at Compiler stats... When you play for longer, of course your counting stats are going to be higher... But if you played for so long, and you reached NO milestone mark, then how important can your compiling be??
     
  19. StanMarsh51

    StanMarsh51 Well-Known Member

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    But the Coors thing is what inflates it...40% of Walker's plate appearances came with Montreal/St. Louis.
     
  20. Terry Rode

    Terry Rode I Will Debate You. Don't Take It Personally.

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    Roy Halladay 162 game Averages: 17-9, 3.38 ERA, 6 CG, 2 SHO, 179 SO, 131 ERA+, 223 hits allowed, 19 HRs allowed, 3.58 SO/W

    Andy Pettite 162 game Averages: 17-10, 3.85 ERA, 2 CG, 0 SHO, 158 SO, 114 ERA+, 223 hits allowed, 20 HRs allowed, 2.37 SO/W

    Their stats are very comparable.
     
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