2019 Hall of Fame Ballot

[VikingFan2k2]

Anyone who doesn't vote for Rivera should have his ballot revoked. In past years that would apply to people like Griffey (99.3% closest to unanimous in history including Ruth and Williams and Mays), Randy Johnson (97%) and freaking Pedro Martinez (91%!!). Anyone who didn't vote for people like that is a douchebag.

Agreed, but until they make the ballots public, these assholes will keep playing this game under the protection of anonymity. It will happen to Mo this year and Jeter next year unless the 3 guys that didn't vote for Griffey have retired or passed on.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Pettite has the postseason stats advantage, 5 world series titles, an ALCS MVP award and a 3 time all star. Halladay is an 8 time all star and a 3 time cy young winner. Halladay deserves it more, but I do think Pettite deserves it as well. W-L is practically identical, SO and ERA isn't that huge of a difference per season

Halladay has a 2.37 postseason ERA....not his fault he played on a bunch of mediocre teams.

Being realistic, Pettitte had maybe 3 seasons that could be called 'great.' Halladay by comparison had 7.

 

[msgkings322]

Agreed, but until they make the ballots public, these assholes will keep playing this game under the protection of anonymity. It will happen to Mo this year and Jeter next year unless the 3 guys that didn't vote for Griffey have retired or passed on.

I think I read that a few voters have a thing where they don't ever vote for someone on the first ballot. Maybe as some weird protest against guys like Ruth and Mays not being unanimous. But whatever the reason it's idiotic and they should lose their vote.

 

[navamind]

Um, according to those 2 stat lines Halladay is better in every single one. ERA is a huge difference and ERA+ is big too. Which one is Pettite better?

He also averaged about 18 more innings per season. Also had 40+ more complete games despite having fewer starts.

Yankee homer gonna Yankee homer.

 

[Yo Tee]

Halladay has a 2.37 postseason ERA....not his fault he played on a bunch of mediocre teams.

Being realistic, Pettitte had maybe 3 seasons that could be called 'great.' Halladay by comparison had 7.

I never said Pettite was better than Halladay, all I said was they both belong in the HoF.

 

[Yo Tee]

He also averaged about 18 more innings per season. Also had 40+ more complete games despite having fewer starts.

Yankee homer gonna Yankee homer.

Oh my Yankee bias is definitely showing here. Ain't no lying about that. I never said Pettite was better than Halladay, all I said was they both belong in the HoF. Halladay was obviously the better of the two. But I think Pettite's stats are good enough for inclusion in the HoF.

 

[calsnowskier]

No brainers...

Bonds
Clemens
Halladay
Rivera

———————-

Debatable...

Kent
Sosa
Schilling
Mussina
Vizquel
Rolen
Jones

———————-

These guys never “felt” like HOFers when they played, and if they aren’t on my radar during their playing career, they are NOT HOFers...

Petitte
Berkman
Wagner
Oswalt

(Really, I don’t have anything against the Astros!!)

———————-

Never. Never. Never...

Edgar

———————-

No because, well, Colorado...

Walker
Helton

———————-

No. No animosity, just no...

Ramirez
Sheffield
McGriff


No one else even deserves consideration.

 

[calsnowskier]

Today's Game Era ballot:

Harold Baines
Albert Belle
Joe Carter
Will Clark
Orel Hershiser
Davey Johnson
Charlie Manuel
Lou Piniella
Lee Smith
George Steinbrenner



Given that Jack Morris made it last year, it's certainly a possibility that Lee Smith gets in

Carter, Smith, Hershiser and Clark are the only players who should even get consideration, and only Carter and Smith should get SERIOUS consideration.

Pinella should probably get it for the entire body of his work, but this is probably too early for him. Give him another 5-10 years.

 

[navamind]

carter was a corner OFer who hit .259/.306/.464

he could be one of the worst HOF selections ever

 

[calsnowskier]

carter was a corner OFer who hit .259/.306/.464

he could be one of the worst HOF selections ever

Don’t disagree.

But the vets committee is not going to submit a blank ballot...

As a fan, I would LOVE to see Clark get in. He and Pence are my two favorite players ever. But neither belong in the Hall.

 

[StanMarsh51]

I never said Pettite was better than Halladay, all I said was they both belong in the HoF.

I (like many) have a hard time buying a case for Pettitte, particularly when the guy only had two clear-cut great seasons and one arguably great season. And I'm saying this as a Yankee fan.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I (like many) have a hard time buying a case for Pettitte, particularly when the guy only had two clear-cut great seasons and one arguably great season. And I'm saying this as a Yankee fan.

yea, i think there is a misconception with him... people think he was a great playoff pitcher because he has the most playoff wins ever.... But if you really look at his playoff numbers they are not outstanding... he just has the most games ever...



i also don't really understand the case for Mike Mussina... Mussina is a perfect example of advanced stats vs basic stats...

He definitely gets hurt since he pitched his whole career in the AL east... But should HOF really factor in the difficulty factor??? or just look at the results??

 

[StanMarsh51]

yea, i think there is a misconception with him... people think he was a great playoff pitcher because he has the most playoff wins ever.... But if you really look at his playoff numbers they are not outstanding... he just has the most games ever...



i also don't really understand the case for Mike Mussina... Mussina is a perfect example of advanced stats vs basic stats...

He definitely gets hurt since he pitched his whole career in the AL east... But should HOF really factor in the difficulty factor??? or just look at the results??

Sure, the HOF should factor in difficulty....that's why they're not favorable to Rockies hitters for instance.

Even looking at just the traditional stats and where Mussina ranked, I think he's got a good case....

7x finished in top 5 in ERA, with 4 top 3 finishes
7x in top 5 in wins, with 4x in top 2
10x in the top 5 in WHIP, with 6 top 3 finishes
6x in top 5 in K's, with 3 top 3 finishes
5x finished 1st or 2nd in shutouts
8x finished in top 3 in K/BB
4 seasons of 200 K's
11 seasons with 200 innings
6 seasons of 18 wins and 11 seasons of 15 wins

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Sure, the HOF should factor in difficulty....that's why they're not favorable to Rockies hitters for instance.

Even looking at just the traditional stats and where Mussina ranked, I think he's got a good case....

7x finished in top 5 in ERA, with 4 top 3 finishes
7x in top 5 in wins, with 4x in top 2
10x in the top 5 in WHIP, with 6 top 3 finishes
6x in top 5 in K's, with 3 top 3 finishes
5x finished 1st or 2nd in shutouts
8x finished in top 3 in K/BB
4 seasons of 200 K's
11 seasons with 200 innings
6 seasons of 18 wins and 11 seasons of 15 wins

But that’s the thing. He had longevity but did not hit any milestones. And his dominance was mediocre. He was at best a top 5 pitcher in the American League. He just had a very long prime.

 

[StanMarsh51]

But that’s the thing. He had longevity but did not hit any milestones. And his dominance was mediocre. He was at best a top 5 pitcher in the American League. He just had a very long prime.

If he hung around for 3 mediocre seasons to hit 300 wins, was he any better simply because he hit a big milestone? I wouldn't say so.

And his dominance is mediocre compared to who, guys like Pedro, Maddux and Clemens and Johnson? Mussina was the AL's best pitcher in 2001 and arguably the second best pitcher in multiple other seasons (1994, 1995 and 1999), so I don't think because his dominance wasnt as good the guys who are possibly among the top 10 pitchers ever, he's not a HOFer.

 

[DefCONNOne]

I think I read that a few voters have a thing where they don't ever vote for someone on the first ballot. Maybe as some weird protest against guys like Ruth and Mays not being unanimous. But whatever the reason it's idiotic and they should lose their vote.

No they shouldn't. Why do you advocate forcing someone to do something they don't want to do? Whether their reason is legitimate or not?

I don't care who you are but telling someone to vote the way you want them to, is wrong.

 

[msgkings322]

No they shouldn't. Why do you advocate forcing someone to do something they don't want to do? Whether their reason is legitimate or not?

I don't care who you are but telling someone to vote the way you want them to, is wrong.

New to sports message boards, are you?

 

[DefCONNOne]

New to sports message boards, are you?

Not at all. I just fail to find the "justice" for Mo Rivera or Derek Jeter by forcing someone, via a figurative gun to the head, to vote the way you want them to vote.

 

[msgkings322]

Not at all. I just fail to find the "justice" for Mo Rivera or Derek Jeter by forcing someone, via a figurative gun to the head, to vote the way you want them to vote.

You also fail to grasp how arguing about sports works.

 

[DefCONNOne]

You also fail to grasp how arguing about sports works.

Oh good, intelligence insults. Always the last resort of someone who has no counter-argument.