2019-2020 Official Regular Season Thread

[dtgold88]

In 2015 he had the same players Mark Jackson had in 2014 that was a first round exit. He convinced Andre Iguodala to take a bench role after he was a career all-star. He "lucked" into Draymond Green after David Lee's injury but he stuck with Draymond even after Lee returned. You have to remember Lee was also a fringe All-star pre-injury and Kerr had designed a lot of the offense to suit his strenghts. He used Bogut on high screens to utilize his passing. He implemented more down screens and off ball movement to get Curry and Klay space to shoot. Jackson was running an iso post offense in 2014. Kerr had the exact same players Mark Jackson had in 2014 that was a first round exit in the playoffs as a 6th seed. He turned that team into a champion in 2015 and 73 game winner in 2016.

So we have actual proof another coach could not do what he did.

Proof one fired coach could not do it I guess.

Really to be fair to Kerr this season means little. Better read would have been if they stayed healthy and got Klay back at some point.

 

[dtgold88]

@dtgold88

Just curious, since we talk about coaching a lot, what are your metrics for an elite coach? How do you quantify who you consider a great coach? I'm genuinely curious.

Honestly, I just tend to gravitate to the ones who do more with less. Isn't to say a guy who does more with more cannot be a good coach.

Pop, for instance, loses his guys and they still remain competitive. That, of course, could be because of the job he and his GM do finding players (not as much coaching them).

I'm not even saying Kerr isn't a great coach. Just hard to know yet.

 

[dtgold88]

dude

3 and 1- chubb is on the sideline

3rd and 3- chubb is on the sidelie

4th and 1 - chubb is on the sideline

1/6 on challenges

Kitchens is in over his head

Mayfield has regressed this year- that is for certain- and some of that is on him- but i think the coach is doing a totally awful job.

Its one of the worst coaching jobs i have ever seen

its a undisciplined, turnover prone, mess that does not even use its players correctly. The team is terrible at time management. The team is terrible in the red zone


Baker was 20 TDs and 0 int. last year in the red zone and completed 70 percent of his passes

this year he is like 4 tds and 6 picks and completing like 40% of his passes.


Kitchens went from being the running backs coach- to being hte head coach AND calling plays in less than a year

Dorsey made a bad move. Its that simple.

Arians is who i wanted.

I have to say- I did not want the Green bay guy (that slips my mind at hte time)

I wanted Arians- and to keep Freddie at OC.

Freddie is in WAAAAAAAAAAAAY over his head.

It's Baker in the RZ that stands out to me (in addition to the non-Chubb plays). Among the best last year as a rookie to the worst. Very accurate to among least accurate. And usually accuracy not something that just comes and goes (or can be taught). You have it or don't.

Where are Dorsey's "real players"?

I do think he can be successful, but a major disappointment since the offseason.

 

[dtgold88]

yep. I wanted Arians too but apparently he didnt want CLE lol. Hopefully they can find an experienced coach

In fact, Arians lobbied for the job here. Once said the only job he'd take. These are not unnamed sources...the words came out of his own mouth during a broadcast...

Bruce Arians says only coaching job he'd take is with Browns

 

[tlance]

Didn't I say something to that effect already? They are on the right track, but will take more time (and roster development).

Didn’t you call them lowly?

 

[Shanemansj13]

Honestly, I just tend to gravitate to the ones who do more with less. Isn't to say a guy who does more with more cannot be a good coach.

Pop, for instance, loses his guys and they still remain competitive. That, of course, could be because of the job he and his GM do finding players (not as much coaching them).

I'm not even saying Kerr isn't a great coach. Just hard to know yet.

Who does more with less? Name one "great coach" that did more with less?
Obviously, Pop is a good answer but he had HOF players and future HOF players. He was consistent so that is another key.

The fact is even great coaches need great players to win.

 

[Shanemansj13]

In fact, Arians lobbied for the job here. Once said the only job he'd take. These are not unnamed sources...the words came out of his own mouth during a broadcast...

Bruce Arians says only coaching job he'd take is with Browns

"I would listen to the Browns," Arians said. "And only them."

This quote still doesn't make any sense, bc he took another job, even though he said he would ONLY consider them. Literally makes no sense LOL...I guess he decided the Browns weren't the only team he wanted to coach. I don't think the Browns even interviewed him which isn't a good look, they wanted to take the young coach route and it backfired...hard.

 

[trojanfan12]

In 2015 he had the same players Mark Jackson had in 2014 that was a first round exit. He convinced Andre Iguodala to take a bench role after he was a career all-star. He "lucked" into Draymond Green after David Lee's injury but he stuck with Draymond even after Lee returned. You have to remember Lee was also a fringe All-star pre-injury and Kerr had designed a lot of the offense to suit his strenghts. He used Bogut on high screens to utilize his passing. He implemented more down screens and off ball movement to get Curry and Klay space to shoot. Jackson was running an iso post offense in 2014. Kerr had the exact same players Mark Jackson had in 2014 that was a first round exit in the playoffs as a 6th seed. He turned that team into a champion in 2015 and 73 game winner in 2016.

So we have actual proof another coach could not do what he did.

Yes and no.

The problem with trying to determine how much of what that team has been able to do is that they were a young, developing team.

Jackson got them to play defense and taught them how to win.

Perhaps, had they kept him as coach, they go on the same run, but with him instead of Kerr. Maybe his plan was to change the offense to something like Kerr has used, but wanted the defense developed first?

I see it as kind of similar to when Phil took over for Del Harris as the Lakers head coach and won a title in his first year.

Had the Lakers kept Del Harris, maybe they win the title? Or, maybe he had taken them as far as he could and the Lakers needed Phil to finish the job?

Personally, I think the Lakers may have gotten a title under Harris, but I doubt they repeat, let alone 3-peat. May have been the same for the Warriors had they kept Mark Jackson.

 

[dtgold88]

Arians is an offensive-minded guy. I don't see that relationship ever working.

Arians and Freddie had worked together. why wouldn't it have worked...could even have told Freddie he could be groomed as coach in waiting.

Issue is it seems like maybe Freddie was not the reason for their success last year.

 

[dtgold88]

"I would listen to the Browns," Arians said. "And only them."

This quote still doesn't make any sense, bc he took another job, even though he said he would ONLY consider them. Literally makes no sense LOL...I guess he decided the Browns weren't the only team he wanted to coach. I don't think the Browns even interviewed him which isn't a good look, they wanted to take the young coach route and it backfired...hard.

No doubt he went against his own words, but clearly he was interested in the Browns' position. And agree not a good look they didn't talk to him.

 

[trojanfan12]

Proof one fired coach could not do it I guess.

Really to be fair to Kerr this season means little. Better read would have been if they stayed healthy and got Klay back at some point.

See, I kind of disagree. Obviously this season means little in the sense that playoffs and a title are certainly not a realistic possibility and he's not going to be on the hot seat.

But he can prove himself to be a great coach if he can get this current roster to at least be competitive.

Of course, the problem with that is...the more competitive they are, the fewer ping pong balls they'll have.

 

[CitySushi]

See, I kind of disagree. Obviously this season means little in the sense that playoffs and a title are certainly not a realistic possibility and he's not going to be on the hot seat.

But he can prove himself to be a great coach if he can get this current roster to at least be competitive.

Of course, the problem with that is...the more competitive they are, the fewer ping pong balls they'll have.

I wanna see them be competitive for 46 minutes a night. Last two I'm fine with them falling off a cliff.

 

[dtgold88]

Who does more with less? Name one "great coach" that did more with less?
Obviously, Pop is a good answer but he had HOF players and future HOF players. He was consistent so that is another key.

The fact is even great coaches need great players to win.

Larry Brown. But I'm not only talking about coaches who won titles.

I think Fizdale has done more with less. I'd put Spo in this category, as well.

 

[CitySushi]

Yes and no.

The problem with trying to determine how much of what that team has been able to do is that they were a young, developing team.

Jackson got them to play defense and taught them how to win.

Perhaps, had they kept him as coach, they go on the same run, but with him instead of Kerr. Maybe his plan was to change the offense to something like Kerr has used, but wanted the defense developed first?

I see it as kind of similar to when Phil took over for Del Harris as the Lakers head coach and won a title in his first year.

Had the Lakers kept Del Harris, maybe they win the title? Or, maybe he had taken them as far as he could and the Lakers needed Phil to finish the job?

Personally, I think the Lakers may have gotten a title under Harris, but I doubt they repeat, let alone 3-peat. May have been the same for the Warriors had they kept Mark Jackson.

That's fair. I just think Jackson was a mediocre coach and had topped out the roster. I saw his offensive sets and they were terrible. The change from 14 to 15 in terms of the offensive structure, defensive rotations and overall level of play was night and day.

 

[trojanfan12]

Honestly, I just tend to gravitate to the ones who do more with less. Isn't to say a guy who does more with more cannot be a good coach.

Pop, for instance, loses his guys and they still remain competitive. That, of course, could be because of the job he and his GM do finding players (not as much coaching them).

I'm not even saying Kerr isn't a great coach. Just hard to know yet.

I think it's been a bit of both with the Spurs. They find guys who can be developed and they develop them. Kawhi was a good player when they got him. But the Spurs developed him into the beast he is today.

They've also done fairly well with "Euro-stash" players.

 

[CitySushi]

I think it's been a bit of both with the Spurs. They find guys who can be developed and they develop them. Kawhi was a good player when they got him. But the Spurs developed him into the beast he is today.

They've also done fairly well with "Euro-stash" players.

RC Buford deserves every bit of credit for the longevity of that organization as Pop, IMO.

 

[trojanfan12]

That's fair. I just think Jackson was a mediocre coach and had topped out the roster. I saw his offensive sets and they were terrible. The change from 14 to 15 in terms of the offensive structure, defensive rotations and overall level of play was night and day.

And you may very well be right. The fact that he hasn't been able to get another HC job since, may speak to NBA GM's sharing your point of view on him.

I know that part of the reason he was fired was because he was an ass around the Warriors facilities and they basically got tired of his shit. But if GM's thought he was a great coach...someone would have hired him by now.

We'll never know for certain how far he could have taken them. But, I'm sure that Warriors fans are very much like Lakers fans re: replacing Del with Phil.

None of them are saying "We should have kept Mark". lol

 

[CitySushi]

Larry Brown. But I'm not only talking about coaches who won titles.

I think Fizdale has done more with less. I'd put Spo in this category, as well.

Kerr did so with less in 2015.

Did you know that:

-Leandro Barbosa was out of the league prior to joining them that year for the Championship.
-Mo Speights was the 4th leading scorer on that Championship team.
-Justin Holiday couldn't make an NBA squad the previous year.
-Klay had never made an all-star game previous to that year.
-Shaun Livingston had played for 5 teams in the 4 years previous to joining the Warriors.
-Draymond had started just 12 games in his career previous to that season.

I mean, a little credit for elevating those guys might be cool.

 

[Wamu]

Kerr did so with less in 2015.

Did you know that:

-Leandro Barbosa was out of the league prior to joining them that year for the Championship.
-Mo Speights was the 4th leading scorer on that Championship team.
-Justin Holiday couldn't make an NBA squad the previous year.
-Klay had never made an all-star game previous to that year.
-Shaun Livingston had played for 5 teams in the 4 years previous to joining the Warriors.
-Draymond had started just 12 games in his career previous to that season.

I mean, a little credit for elevating those guys might be cool.

Excuse me but Dray started 13 games in his career before the '15 season. Get yer stats right, damn!

 

[CitySushi]

Excuse me but Dray started 13 games in his career before the '15 season. Get yer stats right, damn!

I was trying to skew the data in my favor. Leave me alone.