2018 Roster Expectations

[LHG]

Here's what I can piece together on Sandoval. MLB Rumors mentioned, when the Giants purchased his contract, that the Giants have options on him for 2018 and 2019 as long as he is on their roster but will be a free agent if he is not on the roster (Giants Place Brandon Belt On Concussion DL, Promote Pablo Sandoval). Fangraphs doesn't list any changes to his contract since the Red Sox released him. Baseball Reference does list him as released from his contract and lists 2018 as his free agent year (they list the year that follows the off season a player can become a free agent).

What I think is that Sandoval is under the Giants' control through 2019, unless they release or designate him for assignment. That's a little different, in my mind, in his roster status compared to the Giants having to make a decision to exercise an option. Its not in the FO's DNA to release a guy like Sandoval. It would be easier (and considered more honorable) to walk away from a player when the option can be declined (i.e. Cain). If my assumption as to Sandoval's contract status is correct, I would say that the chances of him remaining on the 40 man roster is pretty good.

 

[SFGRTB]

I already have Suarez as a definite goner.

We need between 7 and 9 spots...

Snelton
Beede
Martinez
Garcia
Coonrod
Smith
Belt
Gregorio (maybe)
Johnson (maybe)

The easy goners, IMHO, are...

Cain
Hundley
Al. Suarez
R. Gomez

This is the next tier...

Sandoval (just a few days ago, he was a definite, but I fear the worst)
Brown
Hernandez (2 of these)
Williamson (2 of these)
Parker (2 of these)
Calixte
Osich
Okert

If they want room for a Rule V themselves, that will require another cut.

They may make an early trade, but I am not sure they will be able to do that before the Rule V rosters are due.

I would say the 1 thing about "easy" goners column is that while it might not be Hundley returning (I think it will be), it's almost certain the Giants will fill that spot with a veteran catcher. So in essence it's not a fallible spot. And I think Fed-X and Brown can be put into the easy goners tab as well. Both should make it through waivers.

 

[calsnowskier]

Where does Federowicz fit?

As someone pointed out (you?), he is still under team control, and they still need a backup C next year.

I would not be completely shocked to see him cut loose, though, and then they try to invite him to camp as a NRI

 

[SFGRTB]

Here's an interesting response on MLB Rumor's site to the Jenkins' piece - San Francisco Giants Rumors - MLB Trade Rumors. My favorite:

• Turning this general approach into specific moves figures to be the real challenge, of course. As Jenkins explains, the club has a variety of difficult player/contract situations on the roster. Interestingly, he reports that skipper Bruce Bochy “would welcome a new look” at first base. While Brandon Belt has never been a major source of home runs and has been limited by unfortunate concussion problems, he has also been a steadily productive batter — posting a 128 wRC+ in over three thousand career plate appearances. Indeed, just last winter the club awarded him with an extension that Jenkins now labels as “burdensome.” Attempting to upgrade, though, may well cost yet more and the likelihood of even achieving improved production seems rather dubious.
  If the Giants really decided they needed to move Belt, he’d draw plenty of interest due to his well-rounded offensive profile, though surely other organizations would be wary of the health concerns. Though he did just go on the 60-day DL — effectively ending his season — Belt was able to do some running on the field yesterday. He tells Janie McCauley of the Associated Press (Twitter link) that he has finally “turned a corner” and “just started feeling good,” which is certainly good to hear given the nature of his injury. Hopefully, Belt will be able to recover fully over the offseason.

Exactly. MLB Trade rumors writer hits the nail on the head.

This is a conversation/argument we've been having for years, and this year it's been more active than ever.

 

[SFGRTB]

Here's what I can piece together on Sandoval. MLB Rumors mentioned, when the Giants purchased his contract, that the Giants have options on him for 2018 and 2019 as long as he is on their roster but will be a free agent if he is not on the roster (Giants Place Brandon Belt On Concussion DL, Promote Pablo Sandoval). Fangraphs doesn't list any changes to his contract since the Red Sox released him. Baseball Reference does list him as released from his contract and lists 2018 as his free agent year (they list the year that follows the off season a player can become a free agent).

What I think is that Sandoval is under the Giants' control through 2019, unless they release or designate him for assignment. That's a little different, in my mind, in his roster status compared to the Giants having to make a decision to exercise an option. Its not in the FO's DNA to release a guy like Sandoval. It would be easier (and considered more honorable) to walk away from a player when the option can be declined (i.e. Cain). If my assumption as to Sandoval's contract status is correct, I would say that the chances of him remaining on the 40 man roster is pretty good.

I don't think he's coming back. Just looking at the potential roster crunch, there's nothing he has done to earn a spot. I'm sure the front office is aware of this, and despite Boch's feelings, they'll let him go.

To be honest, the Giants did more for him than any other organization would have done. Gave him consistent PT after being released, a chance to re-establish value. He couldn't do that, time to move on. No reason to feel bad about letting him go (even though I was worried about this from the beginning)

 

[calsnowskier]

I would say the 1 thing about "easy" goners column is that while it might not be Hundley returning (I think it will be), it's almost certain the Giants will fill that spot with a veteran catcher. So in essence it's not a fallible spot. And I think Fed-X and Brown can be put into the easy goners tab as well. Both should make it through waivers.

When I say Hundley is a “goner”, I don’t mean to say he will be with another team next year. I simply mean that he will be removed from the 40-man roster (granted free agency) during the Rule V process. I fully expect the team to target him as a serious resign candidate.

Dumping both package delivery systems knowing that they can either be had or replaced easily is certainly strong logic as well.

 

[SFGRTB]

When I say Hundley is a “goner”, I don’t mean to say he will be with another team next year. I simply mean that he will be removed from the 40-man roster (granted free agency) during the Rule V process. I fully expect the team to target him as a serious resign candidate.

Dumping both package delivery systems knowing that they can either be had or replaced easily is certainly strong logic as well.

Got it

 

[calsnowskier]

Here's what I can piece together on Sandoval. MLB Rumors mentioned, when the Giants purchased his contract, that the Giants have options on him for 2018 and 2019 as long as he is on their roster but will be a free agent if he is not on the roster (Giants Place Brandon Belt On Concussion DL, Promote Pablo Sandoval). Fangraphs doesn't list any changes to his contract since the Red Sox released him. Baseball Reference does list him as released from his contract and lists 2018 as his free agent year (they list the year that follows the off season a player can become a free agent).

What I think is that Sandoval is under the Giants' control through 2019, unless they release or designate him for assignment. That's a little different, in my mind, in his roster status compared to the Giants having to make a decision to exercise an option. Its not in the FO's DNA to release a guy like Sandoval. It would be easier (and considered more honorable) to walk away from a player when the option can be declined (i.e. Cain). If my assumption as to Sandoval's contract status is correct, I would say that the chances of him remaining on the 40 man roster is pretty good.

There may be some specifics about Sandovals situation that could trump the regular process, but I believe that the Giants have options on him simply because his “existing” contract runs through ‘19. Boston is paying him, but they are choosing to not use his services. That means the services portion of his contract to free to be utilized by any other team. Since contract runs through ‘19, so does the “ownership” of his services. The Giants currently own the use of his services, therefore, they own it until ‘19.

That’s my understanding, at least...

 

[LHG]

As someone pointed out (you?), he is still under team control, and they still need a backup C next year.

I would not be completely shocked to see him cut loose, though, and then they try to invite him to camp as a NRI

That's why I asked the question. I figured he should be on your list as a possible roster casualty.

 

[LHG]

Exactly. MLB Trade rumors writer hits the nail on the head.

This is a conversation/argument we've been having for years, and this year it's been more active than ever.

It is amazing that people zero in on him this year when he's outperformed practically everyone not named Posey. I guess that batting average really bothers people.

 

[LHG]

There may be some specifics about Sandovals situation that could trump the regular process, but I believe that the Giants have options on him simply because his “existing” contract runs through ‘19. Boston is paying him, but they are choosing to not use his services. That means the services portion of his contract to free to be utilized by any other team. Since contract runs through ‘19, so does the “ownership” of his services. The Giants currently own the use of his services, therefore, they own it until ‘19.

That’s my understanding, at least...

I thought that too, but think that in order for the Giants to choose not to use his services they have to release him, much like the Red Sox did, not opt out of a contract.

 

[LHG]

When I say Hundley is a “goner”, I don’t mean to say he will be with another team next year. I simply mean that he will be removed from the 40-man roster (granted free agency) during the Rule V process. I fully expect the team to target him as a serious resign candidate.

Dumping both package delivery systems knowing that they can either be had or replaced easily is certainly strong logic as well.

Amy G mentioned, during the game yesterday, mentioned that when Hundley was asked about whether he would like to return to the team in 2018, his response was that he didn't want to speculate on the future and only said that he likes this team. Sounds to me like he's going to go wherever he gets the best deal and if some other team offers him the starting gig (or a platoon opportunity) he is going to be gone.

 

[calsnowskier]

Amy G mentioned, during the game yesterday, mentioned that when Hundley was asked about whether he would like to return to the team in 2018, his response was that he didn't want to speculate on the future and only said that he likes this team. Sounds to me like he's going to go wherever he gets the best deal and if some other team offers him the starting gig (or a platoon opportunity) he is going to be gone.

That doesn’t surprise me. He has no chance of being THE GUY here. And his one year here was a (near) 100 loss year. If he felt a strong connection here and was willing to go the extra mile to stay, I would question his competitive spark.

 

[calsnowskier]

That's why I asked the question. I figured he should be on your list as a possible roster casualty.

Fair

 

[calsnowskier]

It is amazing that people zero in on him this year when he's outperformed practically everyone not named Posey. I guess that batting average really bothers people.

The best looking shit on a shit pile is still a shit.

Please stop using “one of the best hitters on this team” as a resume point for him. Stating that you were the top shoe salesman at JCPenny does not make you qualified to sell skyscrapers in NYC.

 

[LHG]

The best looking shit on a shit pile is still a shit.

Please stop using “one of the best hitters on this team” as a resume point for him. Stating that you were the top shoe salesman at JCPenny does not make you qualified to sell skyscrapers in NYC.

But neither does it mean that management throws one of their top shoe salesman under the bus because sales have been lousy. They go after the bottom of the commission chain and build off the guys at the top.

 

[1phlapdown]

I don't think I like watching Sandoval get hot. I fear the FO will get some wacky ideas...

On the other hand: has been en fuego also. One is fighting the Mendoza line, and the other is fighting the 300 line.

 

[LHG]

The best looking shit on a shit pile is still a shit.

Please stop using “one of the best hitters on this team” as a resume point for him. Stating that you were the top shoe salesman at JCPenny does not make you qualified to sell skyscrapers in NYC.

Belt's WAR this year currently puts him 77th among position players and that is with missing the last month of the season. Posey, meanwhile, sits tied for 46th while playing in 28 more games than Belt. Belt is better than many people give him credit.

 

[calsnowskier]

Belt's WAR this year currently puts him 77th among position players and that is with missing the last month of the season. Posey, meanwhile, sits tied for 46th while playing in 28 more games than Belt. Belt is better than many people give him credit.

But he I still paid like he should be a top 20-30 player. Not a top 80 player.

And Posey plays the most demanding defensive position while Belt plays the least demanding position on the field.

 

[LHG]

But he I still paid like he should be a top 20-30 player. Not a top 80 player.

And Posey plays the most demanding defensive position while Belt plays the least demanding position on the field.

Isn't positional difficulty built into WAR? I'm not trying to say Posey isn't that good.