2017-2018 NBA Regular Season Thread

[CitySushi]

Lonzo needs to watch film immediately of guys like Kevin Martin and Lou Williams. Those guys don't have explosive athleticism, but they find ways to get to the line and draw contact. Lonzo has to get in a mind set of attacking the defense rather than just being a cog in the offense to set up teammates. While it's his primary job, it's not his ONLY job.

 

[knowyourenemy]

I agree with you on Ball's ceiling.

But, his scoring numbers are skewed based on that one big scoring output against the Suns.

You are absolutely correct about the Kidd shooting shortcomings at the beginning of his career.

Lonzo will need to follow that same path or he will become the next Kendall Marshall instead of Kidd, Rubio, Rondo.

Again: We aren't even 10 games in.

Give him time.

Jason Kidd's numbers after 8 games vs. Lonzo's:

8.9 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 6.3 apg, 2.1 stocks, 6.3/2.1 A/TO, .347 FG%, .182 from 3P, 2.5 FTA per game
9.1 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 6.6 apg, 1.9 stocks, 6.6/2.8 A/TO, .326 FG%, .278 from 3P, 1.1 FTA per game

 

[LAD]

But, he went to the rim and got to the line.

2 attempts in 30 mins is unacceptable.

^^^This^^^ this is my only point about Ball. He has to show the defense that he will score when needed.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Ball hasn't shown anything so far that would suggest he has a higher ceiling. Seems as though he's lacking confidence. That can literally make or break young players. It's too bad he can't just take some from his pops.

Yep.

He has to at least get to the line.

He is a pass first rookie pg.

Nobody is expecting him to best Lillard.

But, it doesn't matter how well Brook, Kuzma played.

You aren't winning many games when your pg is outscored 32-0.

On Yahoo, they are calling that game " Hero * Lillard game winner * to Zero * Lonzo point total * ".

 

[knowyourenemy]

But he still kept shooting.

He averaged 11 fga his rookie year.

Lonzo is at 11.

But, that's skewed by that 25 attempts vs. The Suns.

Rod Strickland never became a knock down shooter.

But, he went to the rim and got to the line.

2 attempts in 30 mins is unacceptable.

^^^This^^^ this is my only point about Ball. He has to show the defense that he will score when needed.

Jason Kidd had 6 games during his rookie year where he played 25+ minutes but took 5 or fewer shots. All of them came in the first half of the season.

 

[LAD]

100% agree. It's not the jumpshots that are the problem IMO, it's that he's not looking for OTHER ways to score. It doesn't have to be all 3 point attempts. You can work your way to the rim or get out in transition and be more of an attacker than just simply throwing the ball ahead and relying on teammates.

Something I also noticed was his inability to control is shot. For example, he doesn't have the ability to finger roll yet, or float the ball in from about 2-3 feet out. If he can even just develop those things he would be dangerous for defenses because he then can effectively get them to collapse and get his teammates open - which then would open up more passing & assists for him (something he seems to like the most).

It will be interesting to see where he's at development wise and what he does over the summer to improve. I think that will also tell us about his work ethic as a professional.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Jason Kidd's numbers after 8 games vs. Lonzo's:

8.9 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 6.3 apg, 2.1 stocks, 6.3/2.1 A/TO, .347 FG%, .182 from 3P, 2.5 FTA per game
9.1 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 6.6 apg, 1.9 stocks, 6.6/2.8 A/TO, .326 FG%, .278 from 3P, 1.1 FTA per game

Pretty similar.

I don't think it's really a lack of shots, IMO, but it's a lack of ability to score at this point. His jumpshot isn't work and he's right not to force it at this point. But you still have to be a threat there. He'll get there as his body develops, but he'll need to learn how to be able to score off drives and find other ways to put the ball in the basket in the mean time.

Yes.

He needs to try to get in the lane or to the line because last night, the Lakers were playing 4 on 5 because there was no threat of him shooting.

Makes what KCP, Kuzma, Lopez did even more impressive.

 

[LAD]

Jason Kidd had 6 games during his rookie year where he played 25+ minutes but took 5 or fewer shots. All of them came in the first half of the season.

I get that, but he isn't Kidd. And, Ball is playing with rookies & other young players which means they will be learning together. This team needs him to do more & get into that habit sooner rather than later.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Jason Kidd had 6 games during his rookie year where he played 25+ minutes but took 5 or fewer shots. All of them came in the first half of the season.

That's terrific.

But, he kept shooting and got his attempts per game up, right?

Lonzo has to do the same.

Let's not forget that Kidd had Mashburn and Jackson on his team to score.

The Lakers leading scorer is a bench player,, Kuzma.

 

[CitySushi]

I get that, but he isn't Kidd. And, Ball is playing with rookies & other young players which means they will be learning together. This team needs him to do more & get into that habit sooner rather than later.

Part of this is on Luke and the coaching staff too. I feel like they've pigeon holed him so far as a distributing PG, because that's his strength. You can call a play for him to score every once in a while to get him more involved that way.

 

[knowyourenemy]

That's terrific.

But, he kept shooting and got his attempts per game up, right?

Lonzo has to do the same.

Let's not forget that Kidd had Mashburn and Jackson on his team to score.

The Lakers leading scorer is a bench player,, Kuzma.

Games 1-41, Kidd averaged 9.3 shots per game. Games 42-79 (looks like he missed a few games so my "first half cutoff is off a little), he averaged 12.5 shots per game.

 

[LAD]

Part of this is on Luke and the coaching staff too. I feel like they've pigeon holed him so far as a distributing PG, because that's his strength. You can call a play for him to score every once in a while to get him more involved that way.

Couldn't agree more. I think Luke needs to challenge Ball to be more aggressive. I think if he tells him making mistakes is the only way he'll learn out there it might help.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Part of this is on Luke and the coaching staff too. I feel like they've pigeon holed him so far as a distributing PG, because that's his strength. You can call a play for him to score every once in a while to get him more involved that way.

Great point.

Again: I'm a Lonzo fan.

He doesn't need to be Curry, Westbrook or even Wall.

That's not his game.

But, he has to keep the defense honest to make it a little easier for guys like Ingram.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Games 1-41, Kidd averaged 9.3 shots per game. Games 42-79 (looks like he missed a few games so my "first half cutoff is off a little), he averaged 12.5 shots per game.

I'm still waiting for your point...lol

Are you saying Lonzo is playing as well as Kidd?

Despite what it shows on paper, he's not.

 

[LAD]

Great point.

Again: I'm a Lonzo fan.

He doesn't need to be Curry, Westbrook or even Wall.

That's not his game.

But, he has to keep the defense honest to make it a little easier for guys like Ingram.

I wonder if some of him being timid is coming from being afraid of criticism. His dad hyped him up so much. If so he has to understand that will come no matter what. Good or bad games people are going to find things to talk about.

The other thing is I wonder if he just is struggling with the pace in terms of the number of games per week vs. at the college level. Also, the practice schedule and then having to find time to train/work out.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Games 1-41, Kidd averaged 9.3 shots per game. Games 42-79 (looks like he missed a few games so my "first half cutoff is off a little), he averaged 12.5 shots per game.

Look at Kidds shot attempts in context.

1994 Dallas Mavericks ....

2 guys averaging 24ppg or more.

3 guys averaging 10 or more.

3 more averaging 8 or more.

Not surprising he had low shot attempts.

Now...Look at the Lakers.

Ball has to do a bit more, because he has quite a bit less to work with than Kidd.

1994-95 Dallas Mavericks Roster and Stats | Basketball-Reference.com

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

I wonder if some of him being timid is coming from being afraid of criticism. His dad hyped him up so much. If so he has to understand that will come no matter what. Good or bad games people are going to find things to talk about.

The other thing is I wonder if he just is struggling with the pace in terms of the number of games per week vs. at the college level. Also, the practice schedule and then having to find time to train/work out.

I'm sure that has a lot to do with it.

Level of competition, speed and skill of opposition, media obligations....etc

 

[bksballer89]

@wildturkey @tlance

Beal: Wizards best in East, control own destiny

 

[LAD]

Look at Kidds shot attempts in context.

1994 Dallas Mavericks ....

2 guys averaging 24ppg or more.

3 guys averaging 10 or more.

3 more averaging 8 or more.

Not surprising he had low shot attempts.

Now...Look at the Lakers.

Ball has to do a bit more, because he has quite a bit less to work with than Kidd.

1994-95 Dallas Mavericks Roster and Stats | Basketball-Reference.com

Yes, great points. This is what I was talking about in terms of him playing with other rookies & young players. He doesn't necessarily have the luxury of relying on "others" to do the heavy lifting. He HAS to contribute more in other areas besides just passing. He wasn't even setting screens for his shooters last night.

 

[knowyourenemy]

I'm still waiting for your point...lol

Are you saying Lonzo is playing as well as Kidd?

Despite what it shows on paper, he's not.

No. You asked if Kidd kept shooting and got his attempts per game up. I was showing that Kidd attempted 3 more shots per game in the 2nd half of the season than the 1st half.