2017-2018 NBA Regular Season Thread

[LAD]

Clarkson was really out of it last night. He didn't look right.

Green ... he is very good when you have low expectations. As soon as the Cavs really need him to produce when it is important -- he will disappoint them. I'd expect him to only get 15 minutes / game in playoffs -- that's a good role for him.

Which is so interesting to me because he was really the spark to that offensive outside of LBJ prior to the deadline trades made.

 

[flyerhawk]

Lebron had Van Vleet on 1 trip. He didn't even guard him in the corner ... moved into the paint when Derozan or Lowry had it at top of key to help. That is when Van Vleet hit the wide open 3 from right corner with about 3 minutes to go. That was bad D.

At least Lebron plays much harder during the playoffs.

I don't recall that play but you can cherry pick just about any player's performance and find examples of bad defense. Including guys like Paul George. Because sometimes you make the wrong choice.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Ummmm....

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

I don't recall that play but you can cherry pick just about any player's performance and find examples of bad defense. Including guys like Paul George. Because sometimes you make the wrong choice.

I remember that play and it was pretty bad.

But, he expended so much energy on offense, he can't be expected to give maximum effort on the defensive end every play, of every game.

He picks his spots, which is understandable at his age.

 

[LAD]

Did you watch the game last night?

Measuring defensive output is very difficult. And I'm certainly not about to claim that Lebron is a great defender, although he can be when he puts the effort into it.

But trying to argue that 35 points and 17 assists on 0 turnovers is somehow diminished because of his defense is a pretty poor argument.

Oh here we go.

If you're not trying to claim that LBJ is a great defender then what is your point really? Because in the very next sentence you said "when he puts the effort into it"...which is basically agreeing with my post - that he doesn't defend on a regular basis. I think it's pretty clear that he will need to do more on the defensive end to win a title. We saw that last year when they barely escaped a sweep in the Finals.

And my original post was that there was LITTLE defense involved in his stat line...so, did you see something that the rest of us viewers didn't during that game? I mean did I miss his multiple blocked shots and/or steals?

 

[LAD]

I don't recall that play but you can cherry pick just about any player's performance and find examples of bad defense. Including guys like Paul George. Because sometimes you make the wrong choice.

Yes we can pick any player, however, this conversation is about LBJ - you know the self proclaimed "best in the world" so the expectation of many is he play some defense.

 

[tlance]

Oh here we go.

If you're not trying to claim that LBJ is a great defender then what is your point really? Because in the very next sentence you said "when he puts the effort into it"...which is basically agreeing with my post - that he doesn't defend on a regular basis. I think it's pretty clear that he will need to do more on the defensive end to win a title. We saw that last year when they barely escaped a sweep in the Finals.

And my original post was that there was LITTLE defense involved in his stat line...so, did you see something that the rest of us viewers didn't during that game? I mean did I miss his multiple blocked shots and/or steals?

Not saying LBJ played well defensively last night,

But if you are using steals and blocks as your barometer of defense, then you need a lot of help. Steal and block totals are very misleading. There are some terrible defenders who rack up steals.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yes we can pick any player, however, this conversation is about LBJ - you know the self proclaimed "best in the world" so the expectation of many is he play some defense.

Good to know that you aren't looking to just attack Lebron.

 

[flyerhawk]

I remember that play and it was pretty bad.

But, he expended so much energy on offense, he can't be expected to give maximum effort on the defensive end every play, of every game.

He picks his spots, which is understandable at his age.

Defense relies so much on the entire team. Sure, having someone like Gobert in the paint helps make other defenders better. But even having Gobert doesn't do much good if other people aren't being disciplined.

Last night Lebron was expected to BE the offense. So I'm sure his defense suffered because of it. But that was what last night's game called for.

 

[LAD]

Not saying LBJ played well defensively last night,

But if you are using steals and blocks as your barometer of defense, then you need a lot of help. Steal and block totals are very misleading. There are some terrible defenders who rack up steals.

Well to be clear, I never said those things tell the entire story. I said his stat line showed LITTLE defensive effort - I mean Hill recorded 2 blocks in that game but LBJ has none?

LBJ in particular is usually one of the bigger guys out there - yet he couldn't get 1 block in that game? That screams lack of effort & is worth noting IMO.

 

[flyerhawk]

Not saying LBJ played well defensively last night,

But if you are using steals and blocks as your barometer of defense, then you need a lot of help. Steal and block totals are very misleading. There are some terrible defenders who rack up steals.

And even the more advanced stats only help in the aggregate and not on a game by game basis.

 

[LAD]

Defense relies so much on the entire team. Sure, having someone like Gobert in the paint helps make other defenders better. But even having Gobert doesn't do much good if other people aren't being disciplined.

Last night Lebron was expected to BE the offense. So I'm sure his defense suffered because of it. But that was what last night's game called for.

I agree that game was winnable without him defending much...but the point is that's not going to get the job done against either GS or Hou. You can't beat either of the top offensive teams if you're not defending on a regular basis - and I say regular basis in the sense of a 7 game series.

I think he needs to figure out how to balance his game out more - they made trades so he wouldn't have to carry the offensive load alone. So, IMO 17 assists probably isn't what they need when it's at the expense of him not having energy to defend. If he can figure that out IMO they are the team to beat in the East.

 

[flyerhawk]

Well to be clear, I never said those things tell the entire story. I said his stat line showed LITTLE defensive effort - I mean Hill recorded 2 blocks in that game but LBJ has none?

LBJ in particular is usually one of the bigger guys out there - yet he couldn't get 1 block in that game? That screams lack of effort & is worth noting IMO.

The Raptors ran their offense primarily through the backcourt. The Raptors 3s and 4s scored 24 points last night. The Raptors shot 34 3s and made 15 of them. So the guys that James would be primarily responsible for, were exactly lighting up the game.

Again, that isn't to say that James played well defensively. But I also don't think that you can primarily blame him for the scoreline.

 

[flyerhawk]

I agree that game was winnable without him defending much...but the point is that's not going to get the job done against either GS or Hou. You can't beat either of the top offensive teams if you're not defending on a regular basis - and I say regular basis in the sense of a 7 game series.

I think he needs to figure out how to balance his game out more - they made trades so he wouldn't have to carry the offensive load alone. So, IMO 17 assists probably isn't what they need when it's at the expense of him not having energy to defend. If he can figure that out IMO they are the team to beat in the East.

That's fair.

The Cavs are going to need Hood, Nance and Korver to be offensively effective if they are going to have any chance of beating the Rockets or Warriors. And even then it will likely also require a key injury.

 

[LAD]

The Raptors ran their offense primarily through the backcourt. The Raptors 3s and 4s scored 24 points last night. The Raptors shot 34 3s and made 15 of them. So the guys that James would be primarily responsible for, were exactly lighting up the game.

Again, that isn't to say that James played well defensively. But I also don't think that you can primarily blame him for the scoreline.

Well I didn't say, nor do I think it's all his fault. However, most franchise players will take on the task of defending the guy with the "hot hand" with the hopes of stopping the bleeding. More effort on defense from LBJ is my only point.

 

[tlance]

Well to be clear, I never said those things tell the entire story. I said his stat line showed LITTLE defensive effort - I mean Hill recorded 2 blocks in that game but LBJ has none?

LBJ in particular is usually one of the bigger guys out there - yet he couldn't get 1 block in that game? That screams lack of effort & is worth noting IMO.

It doesn't work like that though. You have to consider game flow and the matchups.

First, Hill is matched up with a player responsible for creating a lot of the Raptor offense. Lowry takes contested shots, which provide opportunities for blocks.

LeBron on the other hand is guarding secondary options in this game. His men are generally getting their shots when he is helping.

If LeBron is going to get blocks against the Raptors, it will come on helpside. He didn't get any last night. Doesn't mean anything though.

 

[LAD]

If LeBron is going to get blocks against the Raptors, it will come on helpside. He didn't get any last night. Doesn't mean anything though.

This is where you & I differ. I think it means a lot - because we always hear guys talking about creating good habits. This mind frame (from that game in particular) IMO was in danger of creating bad habits because when it counts the most more is going to be required. And it may not be a problem for LBJ in particular to ramp up on defense but the rest of the team could struggle - and it's already been noted that it requires a team effort.

 

[Wamu]

Problem is there's little defense involved in his stat line.

This made me laugh.

 

[tlance]

This is where you & I differ. I think it means a lot - because we always hear guys talking about creating good habits. This mind frame (from that game in particular) IMO was in danger of creating bad habits because when it counts the most more is going to be required. And it may not be a problem for LBJ in particular to ramp up on defense but the rest of the team could struggle - and it's already been noted that it requires a team effort.

You are misunderstanding.

Hill had more opportunity to block shots last night because of who he was guarding. Blocked shots are as much about opportunity as they are about talent and effort. If you are guarding a spot up shooter, you aren't likely to get any blocks. You are picking the wrong thing to focus on as an indicator of performance and/or effort.

 

[LAD]

You are picking the wrong thing to focus on as an indicator of performance and/or effort.

Maybe so if we were only talking about that particular game - but this isn't the only game where he's given minimal effort on defense. Just about everyone is talking about it citing the excuse that more is expected from him on offense. So, with that said, are you comfortable using this theory for EVERY game?