2016 re-draft

[PDay8810]

I hate the person Baker Mayfield has shown to be....watched 95% of his college games but you've yet to see me slam his football abilities. I'm willing to wait and see how this turns out. I don't jump in to refute positive points about this guy,

Blows my mind how much you've said about Dak Prescott and how sensitive you are and how you criticize Cowboy fans.

as another has said here....it's funny a Browns fan knows so much about NFL QB play after 7 wins

 

[Across The Field]

Zeke is a good blocker and he's missed blocks that resulted in a sack

Prescott is worth what the market say's he's worth. He is the most important player to resign for this team. Elloitt has agreed. This team is put together a solid NFL roster, to not sign Dak for the going rate would be stupid. It's called leadership and you will be lucky if Baker shows half of what comes easy for Dak.

I give a rats ass about MVP, but to pretend he wasn't in the conservation his rookie year is wrong, even garnished a vote, somebody musta thought he was one for consideration

hard to beat 4 ints in 16 games....which was the only reason why his passer rating was 97 and not 104...otherwise year 3 was right there with year 1. AND year 2 was not but ugly in spite of oline pass protection issues

Pass-blocking and receiving, he's the entire package. It's not a coincidence that Dak's play dropped dramatically when Zeke was out in 2017 -
Without Zeke: 64% comp percentage, 5 TD, 7 INT, 6.3 YPA
With Zeke: 70% comp percentage, 17 TD, 6 INT, 7.0 YPA

He's not a $30m+ QB right now. At least he hasn't played like one. This is simply looking at his production.

He got 1 MVP vote. There have been TONS of players who have gotten 1 MVP vote that aren't MVP-caliber players for their career. A frickin kicker won MVP in 1982, and nobody could name him without looking it up unless they're sports trivia junkies. Ken Willard, a RB with 17 career TDs in 132 career games, got an MVP vote his rookie year.

So you agree 2017 wasn't good. His pass pro wasn't elite but it was far from being the worst. This just speaks more to how missing Zeke for 6 games affected his season.

 

[Across The Field]

I hate the person Baker Mayfield has shown to be....watched 95% of his college games but you've yet to see me slam his football abilities.

It's called leadership and you will be lucky if Baker shows half of what comes easy for Dak

LOL ok. Baker was unquestionably one of the best leaders in the NFL last year, and that was as a rookie. You've got to be kidding me with this garbage.

 

[jarntt]

Dak would have gotten the first down here:

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

Again, you seem to struggle to follow along or remember which argument you are arguing. I'm not referring to any of that at all. I'm strictly talking about how 100 times on here you have said Dak doesn't have a good arm. Nothing else. That's a factual topic and it's wrong. As far as your opinion on his talent or his MVP capability or the talent of other Dallas players, I don't care. It's an opinion and it's not from a Dallas fan. You can think what you want.

All I’m saying is I’ve never once heard that Dak has a good arm. Neither has any of the non Cowboy fans. I thought it was common knowledge.

 

[Across The Field]

others (not cowboy fans) have noticed how you always dump when the topic is Dak

why is that? For a guy who's seen 2 or 3 Cowboy games a year....why would you have such strong opinion on Dak? It's been every thread. I still think it's your over the top love for Elliott. Could be wrong but it's strange how you constantly pipe in when Prescott is mentioned

I've also become very complimentary of him, more than I used to be, yet because I have any level of criticism about him, I'm just "dumping on him". That's ridiculous.

 

[handicappers]

All I’m saying is I’ve never once heard that Dak has a good arm. Neither has any of the non Cowboy fans. I thought it was common knowledge.

lol, so you're speaking for ALL non Cowboy fans? STFU dum dum, you're lying again.

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

First off he is a young kid that played 3 seasons and is only 25 so his weaknesses aren't yet set in stone. But so far he has struggled with his footwork at times. This is his biggest weakness and has clearly caused accuracy issues when his footwork is off, which isn't all of the time. He hasn't been as good as most NFL QBs at seeing when a receiver who is covered is about to get open. He finds the open man just fine, but he doesn't seem to anticipate the guy that will soon get open and make the throw as he is coming uncovered.

He doesn't have quiet feet in the pocket. You watch a Brady just step up one step and get himself out of the muck as it passes behind him. Dak tends to notice the traffic around him and leave the pocket. He throws a great ball on the run so it isn't horrible, but it isn't as good as stepping up and continuing to go through your reads and possibly hit a big play with the extra time. You also lose half the field once you move left or right out of the pocket. This seemed to start after the Atlanta debacle. He needs to put it out of his mind and trust his OL. He needs to throw the ball away quicker when there is nothing there or when he is about to get hit. He also needs to find the hot receiver when being blitzed. I suspect a big part of this is that unlike other teams Dallas doesn't seem to have this communication (going back to Romo). Other teams throw that quick slant into the vacated space but Dallas doesn't seem to run that hot pattern or make that throw within one second in the face of an obvious blitz. He needs to run more. He is a strong, good runner and needs to run more than he does because it should be a huge part of the Offense but it really isn't.

Like most young QBs he needs to get a little better at going through his progressions and seeing every option when there is time. The Offensive scheme is a huge problem because everything is ultra conservative and allows the safeties to sit in the box without much fear of any WRs going behind them on most plays. The only time the Offense opens up is when they are behind late and coincidentally this is when Dak has been at his best proving he can do it, if asked. His WRs clearly struggled to get open for most of his tenure until Cooper came along. The last two points are what led most to Dak "checking down" so often. He can't have gaudy QB stats because the Offense doesn't allow it. The stupid 3rd and 9 to 12 yard screens over and over again were just pathetic play calls. They weren't dumpoffs by Dak, they were called plays.

Mostly I think his biggest weakness is being a Cowboy. This is clearly what has drawn the ire of many NFL fans for a yong QB that has won his division 2 out of 3 years and just knows how to win.

Nice write up. Now let me ask you before I assume. When Dallas had Romo they threw a lot and didn’t have a conservative offense. Why do you think they got ultra conservative once they bring in Dak. And I’m not trying to set you up for a counter point. Why the dramatic change in philosophy once Dak is the QB?

 

[jarntt]

All I’m saying is I’ve never once heard that Dak has a good arm. Neither has any of the non Cowboy fans. I thought it was common knowledge.

So you are going by what you heard? I don't do that and struggle with taking that seriously.

Tell me the throw his arm isn't strong enough to make, because there isn't one. Does he have a Mahomes arm? No, absolutely not. His arm is probably about NFL starting QB average I would say, but plenty strong enough to make all the throws. Say you don't like him or think he is any good, but It's silly to say his arm strength would be a reason why he can't win an MVP.

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

I have a microscopic brain, yet it's you who can't understand 3rd grade math. There were 1,298 votes cast for the 2008 All Pro team and a 50 votes cast for the 2016 MVP.

Sorry your comparison of the All Pro to an MVP is simply as moronic as it gets.

I wasn’t comparing all pro to MVP and the number of votes has absolutely nothing to do with the point. Maybe that’s why you’re struggling because I’m not even comparing the two. Let me break it down to your ability...

1. Is All Pro a prestigious award? YES
2. Is MVP and even more prestigious award for just one player? YES
3. Does the number of people who vote matter? No
4. Can one voter making one vote make someone look better then they are? Absolutely

Get it now?

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

So you are going by what you heard? I don't do that and struggle with taking that seriously.

Tell me the throw his arm isn't strong enough to make, because there isn't one. Does he have a Mahomes arm? No, absolutely not. His arm is probably about NFL starting QB average I would say, but plenty strong enough to make all the throws. Say you don't like him or think he is any good, but It's silly to say his arm strength would be a reason why he can't win an MVP.

I like Dak. He’s a good QB that can take Dallas far. It’s his arm talent which isn’t strength alone is average just like you said and I’ve been saying. Since we agree on his average arm talent can we both agree that average passers aren’t MVP candidates and won’t put up 4500 and 40 (MVP numbers)

 

[jarntt]

Nice write up. Now let me ask you before I assume. When Dallas had Romo they threw a lot and didn’t have a conservative offense. Why do you think they got ultra conservative once they bring in Dak. And I’m not trying to set you up for a counter point. Why the dramatic change in philosophy once Dak is the QB?

They really didn't. In Romo's last full year (2014?) they started the change and it may have been Romo's best season as a QB. He didn't throw as often or for as many yards, but he played smarter and took fewer chances and went more with what the defense gave him. In 2016 Dak was a rookie that basically won the job a couple weeks before the season started and they were always ahead, so of course there would be an even more conservative lean. From the beginning of 2017 through the middle of 2018 his receivers sucked and his OLs pass blocking wasn't very good so again I think that is a big part of why the Offense looked more conservative to those that don't know the play calls and just see the results of each play. Plus Linehan called the plays like a total Puss. Remember the big game winning play against your Eagles to Cooper where he and Dak changed the play in the huddle because they were sick of Linehan calling another curl for Cooper? If they didn't change Linehan's call this wouldn't have happened:


bonus points for Dak throwing it 40 yards in the air and dropping it in perfectly and in stride

 

[jarntt]

I like Dak. He’s a good QB that can take Dallas far. It’s his arm talent which isn’t strength alone is average just like you said and I’ve been saying. Since we agree on his average arm talent can we both agree that average passers aren’t MVP candidates and won’t put up 4500 and 40 (MVP numbers)

Average arm strength is what I said, not arm talent which seems to include more than just how hard you throw it. Let's see if his arm strength is better this year with Kitna fixing his footwork.

He isn't an average passer. He is good. He won't throw for 40 TDs because no QB will in the Dallas Offense. Bring in an Andy Reid or McVay and see what happens with his numbers. This is why there are people that I say form their opinions in the morning paper. They don't even watch the games or if they do it is second fiddle to what the stat sheet shows the next day. They come on a message board and try to use stats as a reason to say they are right regardless of whether they even know the player, team, offensive scheme, weather, game situation, etc. That's something that has been created by this fantasy football, ESPN highlight reel era we are in nowadays. But it doesn't make it accurate. Now sites like PFF have made it even worse. I'm not saying this is you, but every time I read those types of fans pull out all of these stats, I think how little they actually understand Football. MVP doesn't mean gaudiest stats (especially for a QB) and it's usually a player that is on one of the best teams which is the main reason Dak was in the mix in 2016 until they lost the 2nd and 3rd games and Ryan was .500 at the time and a big part of the reason that Wentz (yes his stats were better too) was in 2017 with one loss as well.

 

[handicappers]

“Cooper isn’t worth a first. Bad trade for Dallas l”

PE1

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

They really didn't. In Romo's last full year (2014?) they started the change and it may have been Romo's best season as a QB. He didn't throw as often or for as many yards, but he played smarter and took fewer chances and went more with what the defense gave him. In 2016 Dak was a rookie that basically won the job a couple weeks before the season started and they were always ahead, so of course there would be an even more conservative lean. From the beginning of 2017 through the middle of 2018 his receivers sucked and his OLs pass blocking wasn't very good so again I think that is a big part of why the Offense looked more conservative to those that don't know the play calls and just see the results of each play. Plus Linehan called the plays like a total Puss. Remember the big game winning play against your Eagles to Cooper where he and Dak changed the play in the huddle because they were sick of Linehan calling another curl for Cooper? If they didn't change Linehan's call this wouldn't have happened:


bonus points for Dak throwing it 40 yards in the air and dropping it in perfectly and in stride

Why did you have to show him throwing a bomb against the Eagles?
Haha

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

“Cooper isn’t worth a first. Bad trade for Dallas l”

PE1

I 100% said that along with many other people including a lot of Cowboy fans. I was a million percent WRONG. It was a great trade.

 

[jarntt]

Why did you have to show him throwing a bomb against the Eagles?
Haha

It was honestly about the play call change from a boring conservative curl to an aggressive play that won the game and showed Dak can do it if asked. The Eagles part was just a bonus...

 

[jarntt]

“Cooper isn’t worth a first. Bad trade for Dallas l”

PE1

I have to admit I thought that too. I wouldn't have even given up a 2nd for him. But, I'm glad they did it in retrospect

 

[handicappers]

“Stats don’t matter. And centers aren’t important”

PE1

 

[PhoenixEagles1]

Average arm strength is what I said, not arm talent which seems to include more than just how hard you throw it. Let's see if his arm strength is better this year with Kitna fixing his footwork.

He isn't an average passer. He is good. He won't throw for 40 TDs because no QB will in the Dallas Offense. Bring in an Andy Reid or McVay and see what happens with his numbers. This is why there are people that I say form their opinions in the morning paper. They don't even watch the games or if they do it is second fiddle to what the stat sheet shows the next day. They come on a message board and try to use stats as a reason to say they are right regardless of whether they even know the player, team, offensive scheme, weather, game situation, etc. That's something that has been created by this fantasy football, ESPN highlight reel era we are in nowadays. But it doesn't make it accurate. Now sites like PFF have made it even worse. I'm not saying this is you, but every time I read those types of fans pull out all of these stats, I think how little they actually understand Football. MVP doesn't mean gaudiest stats (especially for a QB) and it's usually a player that is on one of the best teams which is the main reason Dak was in the mix in 2016 until they lost the 2nd and 3rd games and Ryan was .500 at the time and a big part of the reason that Wentz (yes his stats were better too) was in 2017 with one loss as well.

Good point. I think Wentz actually had 2 losses. Early in the year to KC and one right before the Rams game (When Wentz got hurt) against Seattle.