2016 NBA Off-Season Thread part 2

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

yah...he can go get a 9 million dollar a year offer and a backup spot with Boston. lol....have fun.

Any team that wants Smith would have to offer him a deal that was significantly more than Cleveland's. If he can get 15-16M a year- more power to him. That is just not out there though.

Sources say it’s only a matter of time before Smith starts engaging with other teams. There are currently six, for the record, with anywhere from $13 million to $27 million in available cap space: Minnesota, Phoenix, Utah, Denver, Brooklyn and Philadelphia. Boston is not an active suitor for Smith, but sources say that’s only because the Celtics have a mere million-plus in cap space. Sources maintain that the Celtics’ reported interest in Smith is genuine, which means it’s wise to keep an eye on them, since creating cap space with the help of one of those aforementioned six clubs is certainly feasible.
– v

 

[WiggyRuss]

Sources say it’s only a matter of time before Smith starts engaging with other teams. There are currently six, for the record, with anywhere from $13 million to $27 million in available cap space: Minnesota, Phoenix, Utah, Denver, Brooklyn and Philadelphia. Boston is not an active suitor for Smith, but sources say that’s only because the Celtics have a mere million-plus in cap space. Sources maintain that the Celtics’ reported interest in Smith is genuine, which means it’s wise to keep an eye on them, since creating cap space with the help of one of those aforementioned six clubs is certainly feasible.
– v

soooo...lets look at that list....

Minnesota
Phoenix
Utah
Denver
Brooklyn
Philly

The Cavs are supposedly offering somewhere between $10M-$12M a year and starting spot on a championship contender.

UTAH: I HIGHLY doubt Jr Smith is going to Utah- plus they just signed Joe Johnson and have plenty of wings- Burks etc.

BROOKLYN: If he went here it would be just about the money. Brooklyn is awful. They would have to offer him a significant increase over the Cavs. Dont see it happening

PHILLY: Ditto to the Nets

DENVER: IN the middle of a rebuild

PHOENIX: Seems like they are already overloaded at SG.


out of those teams do you think is a possibility?

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Saw this.

Hey @WiggyRuss, can JR. Be involved in a sign and trade for say * gulp * Bledsoe?

I don't see why Phoenix would have any interest in such a deal with Booker, Knight and Godwin on the roster.. But, is it possible with the Cavs above the tax line?

Doesn't that preclude them from doing sign and trades?

@WiggyRuss ?

 

[WiggyRuss]

@WiggyRuss ?

i dunno...i woudnt mind it- but bledsoe is kinda duplicative to kyrie in how they get to the rim.

i think JR knows he is gonna be in cleveland unless some team offers him a huge contract. The Cavs just arent gonna give him 4 years 65 million dollars. IF he can get another team to offer him that - the Cavs arent gonna up there offer to that point- that is for sure.

less than 2 years ago the Knicks were trying to get off of 1 year 6M on JR's deal....no one offered him anything last summer- so he signed a 1 year 5M deal with the Cavs....is some team really gonna go from that to offering around or above 1/6th of their cap room to JR sMith? i rather doubt it.

 

[gordontrue]

Saw this.

Hey @WiggyRuss, can JR. Be involved in a sign and trade for say * gulp * Bledsoe?

I don't see why Phoenix would have any interest in such a deal with Booker, Knight and Godwin on the roster.. But, is it possible with the Cavs above the tax line?

Doesn't that preclude them from doing sign and trades?

As far as the logistics go... I think the Cavs would be fine to do a sign and trade. They own JR's full bird rights... so they can go over the cap to sign him. Going above the tax line doesn't matter, except to Gilbert's pockets.

Whatever they bring back would have to be equal or less than what they sign JR to, though. I believe Bledsoe's deal is around $14 mill a year... so its in the right ball park for what JR is looking for.

The Cavs also have a couple of trade exceptions I beleive that could be used to bring back more $ than they send.

I'm no expert, so anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the way I understand it.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

As far as the logistics go... I think the Cavs would be fine to do a sign and trade. They own JR's full bird rights... so they can go over the cap to sign him. Going above the tax line doesn't matter, except to Gilbert's pockets.

Whatever they bring back would have to be equal or less than what they sign JR to, though. I believe Bledsoe's deal is around $14 mill a year... so its in the right ball park for what JR is looking for.

The Cavs also have a couple of trade exceptions I beleive that could be used to bring back more $ than they send.

I'm no expert, so anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the way I understand it.

Okay....that's scary.

I remember reading articles that suggested the Cavs couldn't add a player of his caliber, because of salary cap restraints, if he decided to walk.

But, if you are correct, that only accounts for outright signings and they could add a guy via sign and trade.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

i dunno...i woudnt mind it- but bledsoe is kinda duplicative to kyrie in how they get to the rim.

i think JR knows he is gonna be in cleveland unless some team offers him a huge contract. The Cavs just arent gonna give him 4 years 65 million dollars. IF he can get another team to offer him that - the Cavs arent gonna up there offer to that point- that is for sure.

less than 2 years ago the Knicks were trying to get off of 1 year 6M on JR's deal....no one offered him anything last summer- so he signed a 1 year 5M deal with the Cavs....is some team really gonna go from that to offering around or above 1/6th of their cap room to JR sMith? i rather doubt it.

Bledsoe was just an example.

My real question was can they do a sign and trade?

I think I found the answer.

If they are hardcapped, no.

What is the hard cap? When are teams subject to it? How does it work?
As described in question number 23, teams above the apron -- the point $4 million above the tax line -- have a smaller Mid-Level exception, cannot use the Bi-Annual exception, and cannot receive a player in a sign-and-trade transaction.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Goodness, this shit is complicated.

@gordontrue @WiggyRuss maybe they can.

The luxury tax threshold is set at $113,287,000, with the hard cap is $117,287,000, but that only applies to teams that have used their Mid-Level Exception (MLE, $5,628.000), Bi-Annual Exception (BAE, $2,203,000) or acquired a player via sign and trade.

2016-17 Team-By-Team Salary Summary | Basketball Insiders | NBA Rumors And Basketball News

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

i dunno...i woudnt mind it- but bledsoe is kinda duplicative to kyrie in how they get to the rim.

i think JR knows he is gonna be in cleveland unless some team offers him a huge contract. The Cavs just arent gonna give him 4 years 65 million dollars. IF he can get another team to offer him that - the Cavs arent gonna up there offer to that point- that is for sure.

less than 2 years ago the Knicks were trying to get off of 1 year 6M on JR's deal....no one offered him anything last summer- so he signed a 1 year 5M deal with the Cavs....is some team really gonna go from that to offering around or above 1/6th of their cap room to JR sMith? i rather doubt it.

You've preached for 2 years that money would never be a factor for Gilbert if it meant having the best roster possible around James.
Guess you were wrong.

Please don't confuse that with me saying J.R. is worth what he's asking.

Nobody cares about J.R.'s past offers, either, this summer changed the salary scale like never before.

I still think he signs with the Cavs, but one can only hope.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Goodness, this shit is complicated.

@gordontrue @WiggyRuss maybe they can.

The luxury tax threshold is set at $113,287,000, with the hard cap is $117,287,000, but that only applies to teams that have used their Mid-Level Exception (MLE, $5,628.000), Bi-Annual Exception (BAE, $2,203,000) or acquired a player via sign and trade.

2016-17 Team-By-Team Salary Summary | Basketball Insiders | NBA Rumors And Basketball News

If it's a money situation, then I doubt Gilbert would do it just to get Bledsoe.
For the next year or 2, J.R. is actually probably the better fit IMO.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Goodness, this shit is complicated.

@gordontrue @WiggyRuss maybe they can.

The luxury tax threshold is set at $113,287,000, with the hard cap is $117,287,000, but that only applies to teams that have used their Mid-Level Exception (MLE, $5,628.000), Bi-Annual Exception (BAE, $2,203,000) or acquired a player via sign and trade.

2016-17 Team-By-Team Salary Summary | Basketball Insiders | NBA Rumors And Basketball News

teams that go over the "hard cap" number of 117 cant use the full mid level exception.

the cavs only had the mini mid level exception to resign jefferson since they were so far over the cap.

if another team has a full mid level exception player they are hard capped at the 117 because if you go over- you cant use the mid level or have a guy on it. also yo ucant sign and trade or use- apparently- use the bi annual exception either

this is what i was talking about that not controlling your payroll inhibits you from making certain types of moves and having certain types of exceptions at your disposal.

 

[Heatles84]

i dunno...i woudnt mind it- but bledsoe is kinda duplicative to kyrie in how they get to the rim.

i think JR knows he is gonna be in cleveland unless some team offers him a huge contract. The Cavs just arent gonna give him 4 years 65 million dollars. IF he can get another team to offer him that - the Cavs arent gonna up there offer to that point- that is for sure.

less than 2 years ago the Knicks were trying to get off of 1 year 6M on JR's deal....no one offered him anything last summer- so he signed a 1 year 5M deal with the Cavs....is some team really gonna go from that to offering around or above 1/6th of their cap room to JR sMith? i rather doubt it.

Bledsoe's a better player than JR and younger - but as you mentioned he fits the same role as Kyrie so it's not really a necessary and you have conflicting pieces.

On the latter, you can't really compare the situations:

1) Those salary numbers were before the massive spike in the salary cap.
2) He's had his rehabilitation in his career - one thing I'll give him and Cleveland credit for. I thought that was a disaster waiting to happen. I was proven wrong 100%.
3) He's a mid-tier SG and should be paid as such. Hell, Manu's 39 and is a bench player in a clear decline, but he's going to pull $15 mil per year from the Spurs - even if it was due to the 76ers offering him the barn.

At this point, do you think the Cavs win a title without JR Smith in your starting lineup or on your roster for that matter?

 

[WiggyRuss]

Bledsoe's a better player than JR and younger - but as you mentioned he fits the same role as Kyrie so it's not really a necessary and you have conflicting pieces.

On the latter, you can't really compare the situations:

1) Those salary numbers were before the massive spike in the salary cap.
2) He's had his rehabilitation in his career - one thing I'll give him and Cleveland credit for. I thought that was a disaster waiting to happen. I was proven wrong 100%.
3) He's a mid-tier SG and should be paid as such. Hell, Manu's 39 and is a bench player in a clear decline, but he's going to pull $15 mil per year from the Spurs - even if it was due to the 76ers offering him the barn.

At this point, do you think the Cavs win a title without JR Smith in your starting lineup or on your roster for that matter?

it seems that dunleavy and mcrae are sharing his shots- and dunleavy is without a doubt a pretty steady replacement if he can stay healthy. It puts a LOT of pressure on Iman Shumpert to take a big step up from last year.

Last year Tristan Thompson did not sign until 10/20- and no one cared 3 days later.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

it seems that dunleavy and mcrae are sharing his shots- and dunleavy is without a doubt a pretty steady replacement if he can stay healthy. It puts a LOT of pressure on Iman Shumpert to take a big step up from last year.

Last year Tristan Thompson did not sign until 10/20- and no one cared 3 days later.

I would not want Dunleavy playing starter minutes.

There are two reasons I mentioned Bledsoe.

1. He is a clutch client.

2. You have a big glaring hole if Kyrie gets hurt.

I couldn't see them playing together. But, I also don't see Bledsoe being open to moving to the bench.

So, it probably would be a no go anyway.

The bigger issue is: The Suns have Knight, Booker and Godwin....why would they need JR?

But, what about......Gay to the Suns, Bledsoe to the Cavs, JR. To the Kings?

* shakes dust off trade machine *

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Oh my God, I just suggested having JR, Boogie and Matt Barnes on the same Team.

I'm sorry @Bolts

 

[LAD]

in draymonds defense- he was asked in an interview and was not really prepared- but his answer reminded - again- of the answer in Billy Madison- "At no point did you come close to a coherent thought. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul". All though- with his talent for incoherence he may have a future as a trump speech writer. I mean...draymond does seem to go for other's junk....

I wonder if in his asinine world that's better than doing what you do- always just talk about others' junk?

Here's a thought: you should always avoid the topic of others' junk-particularly when males are the subject given your history and related fondness.

 

[LAD]

This was my favorite part.....


Draymond: " He left there. Nobody complain when somebody leave Apple and go to Google. Aren't they in competition with each other? Nobody talk junk about the CEO who leaves Apple and goes to Google. "

Writer: Apple and Google actually had a non-poaching agreement, which in this situation the Warriors would have absolutely violated with how often they texted Kevin Durant last season, and have admitted as much. But much like how the NBA views tampering when it's between players, it's not something that can be legislated, as a court actually struck it down. But that just muddles the entire idea further.

In defense of Dray I'm pretty sure he used that example to help people relate to his point- which I'm sure is that people leave one mogul for another and they're not ridiculed for it like these players are when they switch teams.

I can see how his example relates to the NBA & their players. He used Google & Apple because they're well known by many.

 

[LAD]

Sorry, Dray, but people care a hell of a lot more about what Pierce has done in this league than anything you've done at this point.

Do they? I mean I don't think it would take long to surpass his resume'.

 

[LAD]

yah...he can go get a 9 million dollar a year offer and a backup spot with Boston. lol....have fun.

Any team that wants Smith would have to offer him a deal that was significantly more than Cleveland's. If he can get 15-16M a year- more power to him. That is just not out there though.

maybe he's out to prove a point like Wade.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Do they? I mean I don't think it would take long to surpass his resume'.

Really?

I know Draymond is your guy and we all know I hate his ass.

Actually, I hate Pierce too. Murtha Fucker should be prosecuted for Grand Theft.

But,he's a future HOFer.

Career highlights and awards

• NBA champion (2008)
• NBA Finals MVP (2008)
• 10× NBA All-Star (2002–2006, 2008–2012)
• All-NBA Second Team (2009)
• 3× All-NBA Third Team (2002, 2003, 2008)
• NBA All-Rookie First Team (1999)
• NBA Three-Point Shootout champion (2010)
• Consensus first-team All-American (1998)
• No. 34 retired by Kansas
• McDonald's All-American (1995)
• California Mr. Basketball (1995)