2016 COWBOY Defense Is, What We Thought It Would Be

[jarntt]

Where is the risk? Martin wants to be in Dallas. Dallas actually protects themselves from risk by waiting to extend. I'm not suggesting Dallas low ball him - give Martin whatever he is asking for, within reason. At the very earliest, Martin could not become a free agent until after 2019 (franchise tag).

I'm not saying what I would do, I'm saying what I think the team will do and I think he is our priority and we extend him before or during the 2017 season.

What is the cap hit if we exercise the 5th year option and what is the cap hit if we extend? I think if we exercise the option it's like $10M for 2018 but not sure. Frederick's 2017 cap hit will be a third of that. So if we extend we can keep that lower. Lastly the real risk is he chases every penny and even if that ends up in Dallas it still likely costs us more.

 

[jarntt]

I looked at over the cap also. I think the discrepancy between the two comes from some roster filler at the bottom of the rosters. Looks like over the cap has a few more guys under contract for Dallas that are highly unlikely to be on the teams final 51 in 2017.

As for backup QB, I think we will see Kellen Moore brought back. He is cheap, only playing for $725,000 last year. Linehan really seems to believe in him, too.

I would like to see Claiborne brought back (never thought I would say that). Hopefully can be done on the cheap with a 1 year "prove it" deal, similar to what he got this year.

Claiborne got a 1 year $3M deal for 2016. So expect a much bigger number for next year. Yeah he got hurt again, but his level of play skyrocketed. I don't think you get him for one year and I don't think you get him for less than $5M per.

 

[Manster7588]

Claiborne got a 1 year $3M deal for 2016. So expect a much bigger number for next year. Yeah he got hurt again, but his level of play skyrocketed. I don't think you get him for one year and I don't think you get him for less than $5M per.

This is also my thought, he,signed cheap last year for a chance to show he could play NFL CB, he did that. I don't expect top 10 money but hes getting paid.

 

[es4m11]

I'm not saying what I would do, I'm saying what I think the team will do and I think he is our priority and we extend him before or during the 2017 season.

What is the cap hit if we exercise the 5th year option and what is the cap hit if we extend? I think if we exercise the option it's like $10M for 2018 but not sure. Frederick's 2017 cap hit will be a third of that. So if we extend we can keep that lower. Lastly the real risk is he chases every penny and even if that ends up in Dallas it still likely costs us more.

Have to check on the cap hit... I think Martin's cap hit should be the same in 2017 regardless of an extension or not. His 5th year option is probably around $10mil, but I can't find a solid number on that. For reference, Frederick's 5th year base salary and cap number was $8.8mil. Frederick's base was escalated to $14.2mil under his new contract and his new cap number for 2017 is $14.8mil - not exactly sure how that works, have to do some reading.

Considering the Cowboys have done the same with Smith and Frederick, it's probably a safe bet that they will extend Martin this off-season. Personally, I would wait, but I also don't have billions of dollars and a NFL franchise, so my opinion isn't worth a damn in this instance.

And I don't think it matter when or where Martin signs, he will probably get every penny anyway. I imagine the NFLPA will be applying pressure on him to do so, since he will likely be setting the market for all other interior lineman.

 

[jarntt]

This is also my thought, he,signed cheap last year for a chance to show he could play NFL CB, he did that. I don't expect top 10 money but hes getting paid.

That's what I'm thinking. When healthy this year he played like a $10M-$12M per year corner. Now based on his level of play before 2016 and the fact that he gets hurt every year including this past season, he certainly isn't getting anywhere near Janoris Jenkins' 5 year $62.5M deal of course. But he will be getting a much bigger contract than 2016. I can't even begin to guess what he'll get. How do you even price a guy like him?

 

[es4m11]

Claiborne got a 1 year $3M deal for 2016. So expect a much bigger number for next year. Yeah he got hurt again, but his level of play skyrocketed. I don't think you get him for one year and I don't think you get him for less than $5M per.

This is also my thought, he,signed cheap last year for a chance to show he could play NFL CB, he did that. I don't expect top 10 money but hes getting paid.

Yea, Claiborne showed he could play, but health has always been his biggest issue. And he did nothing this year to dispel the notion that he is unable to stay healthy. I imagine he will get a raise this year, but it won't be a large one. Claiborne still has a lot to prove.

Claiborne made $2.6mil this season. Maybe a 1yr/4mil offer gets him. Claiborne has made it very clear Dallas is where he wants to be. Sounds like he feels like he has something to prove in Dallas.

 

[jarntt]

Have to check on the cap hit... I think Martin's cap hit should be the same in 2017 regardless of an extension or not. His 5th year option is probably around $10mil, but I can't find a solid number on that. For reference, Frederick's 5th year base salary and cap number was $8.8mil. Frederick's base was escalated to $14.2mil under his new contract and his new cap number for 2017 is $14.8mil - not exactly sure how that works, have to do some reading.

Considering the Cowboys have done the same with Smith and Frederick, it's probably a safe bet that they will extend Martin this off-season. Personally, I would wait, but I also don't have billions of dollars and a NFL franchise, so my opinion isn't worth a damn in this instance.

And I don't think it matter when or where Martin signs, he will probably get every penny anyway. I imagine the NFLPA will be applying pressure on him to do so, since he will likely be setting the market for all other interior lineman.

Depends on when extended. Could see additional $'s from signing bonus. But, my point was about keeping 2018 cap hit low with Martin, not 2017. after being restructured Frederick will have a low cap hit in 2017 and Martin's will be similar, but of course a little higher in 2018. I'm trying to trend out Martin based on Frederick since only a year apart and both first rounders.

 

[es4m11]

Depends on when extended. Could see additional $'s from signing bonus. But, my point was about keeping 2018 cap hit low with Martin, not 2017. after being restructured Frederick will have a low cap hit in 2017 and Martin's will be similar, but of course a little higher in 2018. I'm trying to trend out Martin based on Frederick since only a year apart and both first rounders.

So if I am reading this right, you are assuming Martin is automatically restructured the year after he signs his extension? If not, how does Dallas get a low cap number for Martin in 2018?

Dallas needs to end the restructures, not plan out several more.

 

[es4m11]

That's what I'm thinking. When healthy this year he played like a $10M-$12M per year corner. Now based on his level of play before 2016 and the fact that he gets hurt every year including this past season, he certainly isn't getting anywhere near Janoris Jenkins' 5 year $62.5M deal of course. But he will be getting a much bigger contract than 2016. I can't even begin to guess what he'll get. How do you even price a guy like him?

Claiborne was good, much better than in years past, but I wouldn't go that far. Jenkins was the real deal, and actually worth 12 million. Claiborne at his best this past season was not on Jenkins level, IMO based on the games I watched. Claiborne also got away with a lot of penalties this year while on the field - he was very grabby.

Obviously our opinions on Mo are very different. So I guess we will have to wait and see.

 

[jarntt]

So if I am reading this right, you are assuming Martin is automatically restructured the year after he signs his extension? If not, how does Dallas get a low cap number for Martin in 2018?

Dallas needs to end the restructures, not plan out several more.

yes. Like Smith and Frederick his contract will be designed with restructures planned ahead of time i think.

Restructures aren't always bad. When you restructure an aging injury-prone guy like Romo who also makes a lot of money it's asinine and you are looking for trouble and to cripple your cap down the road. I think many here including me said that for a few years now and obviously it's happened when he sits on the bench and takes up $21M in cap space in 2016 and still has $20M unallocated to be accounted for in future caps. Timing wise nothing would have changed for 2016 because we didn't know beforehand that he wasn't going to play but just to look at the impact of that cap hit if we had: we could have had a big pass rusher and another defender for that money for this playoff run. But, IMO, restructures are fine for guys that don't have a history of injuries and that you plan to have around for many more years and guys like Smith and Frederick fit that bill perfectly

 

[jarntt]

Claiborne was good, much better than in years past, but I wouldn't go that far. Jenkins was the real deal, and actually worth 12 million. Claiborne at his best this past season was not on Jenkins level, IMO based on the games I watched. Claiborne also got away with a lot of penalties this year while on the field - he was very grabby.

Obviously our opinions on Mo are very different. So I guess we will have to wait and see.

Only focusing on 2016 and before he got hurt, he played at a Pro Bowl level. He was fantastic. Do I expect to get that production from him for 16 games a year going forward. No way. Which is why I said i don't think he will get anywhere near top CB FA money. My point was that while he was playing he played great and that tape is out there. If a team is looking for, or perhaps even desperate for, a CB they aren't going to be low balling him with a one year $3M contract.

 

[UK Cowboy]

yes. Like Smith and Frederick his contract will be designed with restructures planned ahead of time i think.

Restructures aren't always bad. When you restructure an aging injury-prone guy like Romo who also makes a lot of money it's asinine and you are looking for trouble and to cripple your cap down the road. I think many here including me said that for a few years now and obviously it's happened when he sits on the bench and takes up $21M in cap space in 2016 and still has $20M unallocated to be accounted for in future caps. Timing wise nothing would have changed for 2016 because we didn't know beforehand that he wasn't going to play but just to look at the impact of that cap hit if we had: we could have had a big pass rusher and another defender for that money for this playoff run. But, IMO, restructures are fine for guys that don't have a history of injuries and that you plan to have around for many more years and guys like Smith and Frederick fit that bill perfectly

Exactly right. I've seen a lot of national NFL guys that don't have the first clue that talk about how limited the Cowboys are with the cap. The Cowboys could clear $30 million in a week if they wanted to, and it would be easy as pie. Stephen knows exactly what he is doing with the cap, and once Romo is off the books after next year, their cap will be in the best shape it's been in in 15 years

 

[es4m11]

yes. Like Smith and Frederick his contract will be designed with restructures planned ahead of time i think.

Restructures aren't always bad. When you restructure an aging injury-prone guy like Romo who also makes a lot of money it's asinine and you are looking for trouble and to cripple your cap down the road. I think many here including me said that for a few years now and obviously it's happened when he sits on the bench and takes up $21M in cap space in 2016 and still has $20M unallocated to be accounted for in future caps. Timing wise nothing would have changed for 2016 because we didn't know beforehand that he wasn't going to play but just to look at the impact of that cap hit if we had: we could have had a big pass rusher and another defender for that money for this playoff run. But, IMO, restructures are fine for guys that don't have a history of injuries and that you plan to have around for many more years and guys like Smith and Frederick fit that bill perfectly

Agreed. But when it is a yearly matter of course, then I think yes they are bad in general. Restructures, IMO, should be saved for emergency situations, because often times they create emergencies down the road.

I have said it a few times, I wish Dallas would just take the medicine now and get it over with now. We have the young cheap talent right now to do it, and probably not suffer too much. Instead, the Cowboys choose to let the sickness linger and occasionally the roster experiences flare ups because of it - like when we had to release D.Ware, or right now with the Romo situation. It's just a foolish business model, IMO. Dallas always has to scramble, when we could just get our house in order and not have this discussion every year.

 

[es4m11]

Exactly right. I've seen a lot of national NFL guys that don't have the first clue that talk about how limited the Cowboys are with the cap. The Cowboys could clear $30 million in a week if they wanted to, and it would be easy as pie. Stephen knows exactly what he is doing with the cap, and once Romo is off the books after next year, their cap will be in the best shape it's been in in 15 years

We can create a lot of money now, but we always have a crisis 2-3 years later. Wash, rinse, repeat.

What happens if T.Smith's back really takes a dump and he can't play, or is no longer a dominant LT? Smith's dead money for 2016 is $33mil - and people want to restructure him further...

 

[UK Cowboy]

We can create a lot of money now, but we always have a crisis 2-3 years later. Wash, rinse, repeat.

What happens if T.Smith's back really takes a dump and he can't play, or is no longer a dominant LT? Smith's dead money for next year is $33mil - and people want to restructure him further...

I think the parallel on when Jerry took a step back with the draft was about the same time Spencer and Ware were released instead of extended. If Jerry were still running the show, Johnny Football would be wearing a Star, Zach Martin, Dak, and probably Zeke would be playing somewhere else, and Romo would be extended through 2024

 

[es4m11]

I think the parallel on when Jerry took a step back with the draft was about the same time Spencer and Ware were released instead of extended. If Jerry were still running the show, Johnny Football would be wearing a Star, Zach Martin, Dak, and probably Zeke would be playing somewhere else, and Romo would be extended through 2024

Whether Jerry is running the ship or not, the Cowboys still seem to have the same philosophy regarding managing the cap.

No disputing that we draft much better, but has the fiscal management really changed at all? Not as far as I can tell.

 

[UK Cowboy]

Whether Jerry is running the ship or not, the Cowboys still seem to have the same philosophy regarding managing the cap.

No disputing that we draft much better, but has the fiscal management really changed at all? Not as far as I can tell.

I know it looks that way, but I think some of the moves they've made have been because their hands were tied by the mess the cap was in a few years ago. The difference, to me, is that outside Romo and Witten, this is one of the youngest and most talented teams in the league, and the guys they are extending long term now will be 30 at the end of their deals instead of 40

 

[es4m11]

I know it looks that way, but I think some of the moves they've made have been because their hands were tied by the mess the cap was in a few years ago. The difference, to me, is that outside Romo and Witten, this is one of the youngest and most talented teams in the league, and the guys they are extending long term now will be 30 at the end of their deals instead of 40

This is a good point.

I think that drafting better has made it easier to make the right choices. In years past, Dallas was extending older guys because we drafted like shit more often than not. Had Dallas drafted better, we probably aren't forced into as many bad decisions on older players.

My problem is the Cowboys front office seems to have this ideology that "we can break the cap now, because we can fix it later". If they would just plan properly and not restructure guys all the time, they wouldn't need to break the cap in the first place.

 

[ROMOTOOWENS]

All it takes is one hit.

 

[Manster7588]

We can create a lot of money now, but we always have a crisis 2-3 years later. Wash, rinse, repeat.

What happens if T.Smith's back really takes a dump and he can't play, or is no longer a dominant LT? Smith's dead money for 2016 is $33mil - and people want to restructure him further...

Wanting and saying what is necessary and likely is completely different. I wish Dallas never HAD to restructure a single contract, but Dallas' MO is to write contracts with restructuring in mind.