2016-17 NBA Regular Season Thread

[Wamu]

Why isn't anyone talking about Tristan Thompson?

 

[LAD]

W-L record is a lazy judge of that and one that I've only ever seen applied to the Cavs. Do we even know how other teams/players fare when their best player rests??

Yes.

Steph missed three games during reg season last year & GS went 2/1 in those games.

Steph missed 6 games in the 2016 playoffs against Houston. GS went 4/2 in that series.

 

[gordontrue]

Here are the numbers on the Cavs without LeBron in the last 2 seasons.

• Cavs are 1-10 when LeBron doesn't play.
• 7 of the 11 games were away games on the 2nd night of a back to back.
• In 6 of 11 games, Love and/or Kyrie was also not available.
• In 8 of the 11 games at least 1 starter in addition to LeBron was unavailable for the game.
• None of the opponents were bad teams, but most of them were mediocre teams. (The worst opponent, record wise, was the most recent one, in which the Heat entered with a 28-34 record).

Its not a very positive stat for the rest of the Cavs players... but its also not a very trustworthy sample of games.

When LeBron is the only starter missing... the only ammo you're left with is 3 losses to the Pacers, Rockets, & Wizards, 2 of them coming in a b2b road games. How do you honestly think other teams would do in those 3 games without their best player?

 

[gordontrue]

LOL I'm sure....even though it shows lack of improvement as an individual LEADER when we put his past seasons together with the more recent games without LBJ. Trust me, that isn't coincidental.

Here's another example. RW doesn't have a big 3 in OKC yet he's lead his team to the 6th seed thus far in the WC. Yet you don't think Kyrie's inability to produce a winning record with just a handful of games without LBJ should reflect negatively on Kyrie as an individual leader? What that tells me is he's a great #2 but not capable of being a #1 that can win enough games to matter.

This is exactly my point though. RW actually has a large. meaningful sample size of games without Durant to draw conclusions from.

 

[LAD]

I'm gonna look up all the stats on the games LeBron has missed the last 3 years. Who else was resting? Was the game at home? What was the record of the other team? What were Kyrie's stats in those games? Was it a b2b game? What even IS the actual record at this point, and how many games exactly are we talking about.

That will paint a much clearer picture, in my opinion. And if I'm wrong, and there's something signifigant there, I will own up to it and stop pushing back.

If LBJ is the star player then what does it matter who else besides LBJ didn't play? Remember, we're talking about a handful of games here. He isn't capable of producing a winning record with just a handful of games?

 

[gordontrue]

Yes.

Steph missed three games during reg season last year & GS went 2/1 in those games.

Steph missed 6 games in the 2016 playoffs against Houston. GS went 4/2 in that series.

Sounds very statistically signifigant

 

[gordontrue]

If LBJ is the star player then what does it matter who else besides LBJ didn't play? Remember, we're talking about a handful of games here. He isn't capable of producing a winning record with just a handful of games?

Suppose the Cavs won those handful of games this year without LeBron...

Would that prove that Kyrie is a great player that doesn't need LeBron??

Of course not. Its just doesn't mean anything. At least not anything signifigant.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Make sure they do the same thing tomorrow night. Miami could really use a Dubs win vs the Bucks because I damn well know the Lakers won't provide any assistance tonight.

Lakers win tonight.

 

[gordontrue]

Well it's relative in this forum because we're constantly told how great Kyrie is- even to the point where he's been elevated above other PGs in the league who have more accolades- team and/or individual in some cases.

Yeah, I get that. That's fair. I'm not trying to push back against that. I just don't think we know - one way or the other - how the current version of Kyrie would do as the best player on a team.

 

[LAD]

This is exactly my point though. RW actually has a large. meaningful sample size of games without Durant to draw conclusions from.

Yep, which also tells me this: If RW can do this regularly, how come Kyrie can't do it for a handful of games? I mean, it would only matter if people are saying Kyrie is star level like RW.

 

[LAD]

Sounds very statistically signifigant

Well, it's just about the same number of games that you listed in your stats- AND it included a playoff series when rotations are tighter & the game slows down, yes?

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Yeah, I get that. That's fair. I'm not trying to push back against that. I just don't think we know - one way or the other - how the current version of Kyrie would do as the best player on a team.

Right.
But Wiggy has anointed him to Godlike, without the resume to support it.

 

[Wamu]

Does Irving still think the Earth is flat?

 

[gordontrue]

Yep, which also tells me this: If RW can do this regularly, how come Kyrie can't do it for a handful of games? I mean, it would only matter if people are saying Kyrie is star level like RW.

thats not how it works.

A handful of games has huge potential to be misleading - in both directions.

 

[gordontrue]

Right.
But Wiggy has anointed him to Godlike, without the resume to support it.

Yeah, we just don't know. Reminds me of pippen. He spent the entire prime of his career with Jordan.

How would he have fared as the main guy?? No one knows. Its unfair to claim that he couldn't have been a #1 just because he wasn't... but there's also not much to defend the position that he could have.

 

[LAD]

Suppose the Cavs won those handful of games this year without LeBron...

Would that prove that Kyrie is a great player that doesn't need LeBron??

Of course not. Its just doesn't mean anything. At least not anything signifigant.

No, it would mean Kyrie can LEAD his team to wins without LBJ, which has been my point from the beginning. To tie it all together- it would also help those of us on the fence close the gap in terms of rating him a star player amongst his peers.

It would also differentiate his losing seasons in the beginning of his career from the last couple of seasons playing with LBJ. It would show his growth- simply because people claim LBJ makes his team mates better.

 

[gordontrue]

No, it would mean Kyrie can LEAD his team to wins without LBJ.

I wouldn't be convinced of that at all. Which is fine, I guess that's the difference. Just because they won a few more games without LeBron wouldn't prove much to me about Kyrie as a player.

 

[LAD]

thats not how it works.

A handful of games has huge potential to be misleading - in both directions.

I guess so, if a person doesn't trust the w/l stat. At the end of the day, when the playoff seeding is coming to form wins & losses are all that's looked at. They don't evaluate each game & break down any particular circumstances as to how the result came about.

So, for you to try to do that now means very little. We want to know can he step in as a leader on a temporary basis-and right now that answer is NO.

 

[TJL]

This thread is just one big regurgitation every single day.

 

[LAD]

Yeah, we just don't know. Reminds me of pippen. He spent the entire prime of his career with Jordan.

How would he have fared as the main guy?? No one knows. Its unfair to claim that he couldn't have been a #1 just because he wasn't... but there's also not much to defend the position that he could have.

Pippen played after MJ retired- and he wasn't a great #1.