2016-17 NBA Regular Season Thread

[trojanfan12]

thats not true..

no matter how good your stats are- the players that have won MVP are practically ALWAYS on teams that are at least top 4 seeds.

When was the last time a guy won the MVP on a team that was a 7 or 8 seed? I dont know if its EVER happened.

Basically- in the history of the NBA- if you are not on a team that is a top 4 seed- it PRETTY MUCH has automatically disqualified a players candidacy for the MVP.

While that's true. We also don't have players who are averaging a triple double every year either. Things are based much more on stats than they ever have been and while I don't for certain that Westbrook will win it, if he pulls off the triple double average, he will get very strong consideration. Especially when you look at the Thunder's record when he records a triple double vs. when he doesn't.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Except that with the season Mozgov was having, he'd still suck at $8-9 million. It would just be easier to justify by using his mentoring of the young guys as the reason.

Where you are wrong about Whiteside is that, first of all, there about 6 teams ready to offer him a max deal. You don't get that many offers of that size if teams don't believe you can help them win unless Jim Buss is your GM.

Also, you are far too narrow in your approach. With very few exceptions (Lebron, KD, Kawhi) who are worth a max deal to whatever team they got to, players are worth more to some teams than others.

Teams are puzzles and the teams that have more pieces that fit are the better teams.

Tristan Kardashian is a perfect example. Not one other team in the league would have paid him what the Cavs are paying him because he isn't good enough to make a true difference in those teams fortunes. However, to the Cavs, he's worth every penny because he provides exactly what they need and with their cap situation, they simply couldn't let him walk and have the cap space to sign someone else who can replicate what he brings.

As an example of the opposite, look at the Clippers (sorry @Mecca). They are a deep, talented team, but there are pieces in their puzzle that just don't seem to fit so they are not the threat to win a title that they should be given their talent and depth.

With what the Heat are trying to build and what they are doing as a team, Whiteside fits in very well and is worth what they are paying him. If he and they continue to improve and they can find a way to add another top flight/closer type of player, things will get very interesting in the East.

Not that i agree with you about Tristan- but i think you ahve some interesting points there

i dont think Whiteside is necessarily a bad fit--- i just think paying a center that cant pass, and cant shoot and cant switch in todays league landscape of spacing and shooting puts you behind the 8 ball and limits the upside of your team.

if your goal is to be competitive---sure- give Whiteside a max

if your goal is to try and win a title or go deep into the playoffs- and you think he can be the best or 2nd best player on a championship contender- then i think a team that gives him max money will be sorely dissapointed.

 

[trojanfan12]

This is a very good team right now if you haven't noticed.

He'd have to watch a game to notice.

 

[bksballer89]

We needed you last night, but we'll be fine.

Say goodnight to Bulls.
Pistons prob on deck.

I think Heat/Bucks get last 2 spots.

Bucks are 11-6 since Jabari injury, but to be fair that's when Middleton came back.

I think it's Detroit and Miami

 

[bksballer89]

This is a very good team right now if you haven't noticed.

22-5 over the last 2+ months should give that away but I guess not.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

if the CAvs didnt have LeBron- and the first thing they did after an exodus of a bunch of great players like happened to the HEat- and they signed a center to a max contract that cant pass, cant shoot, and cant switch- in the league landscape where passing and space is everything- it would be the height of stupidity.

They sucked forever and will again soon enough, so maybe they should have tried any other plan?

Seems to me Heat also signed a bunch of other very good players.

Its pretty fun to watch you argue about how bad they are, when for 2 months, nobodys been better.

I know the first half of the season happened, but lets pretend it didnt.

This isnt the same team.

What would your opinion be if the 2nd half was the first half and the Heat were starting out at 22-5?

 

[trojanfan12]

Not that i agree with you about Tristan- but i think you ahve some interesting points there

You may not agree, but 29 teams not named the Cavs...do.

i dont think Whiteside is necessarily a bad fit--- i just think paying a center that cant pass, and cant shoot and cant switch in todays league landscape of spacing and shooting puts you behind the 8 ball and limits the upside of your team.

First of all, as I've pointed out, passing, shooting and switching are all things that can be learned. Whiteside is a very athletic big, so learning to do those things shouldn't be too difficult if he put in the work (which, so far, based on how much he's improved since the Heat got him, he seems willing to do). You talk like he's a Dwight Howard type player who is starting to get close to the end of his career and hasn't improved. That's simply not the case. He also may never become all that proficient at switching. Very few bigs ever do, including those who can do it because they all hate it. In his time, Shaq was arguably the most dominant big in the game...he sucked at switching. Not because he couldn't do it, but because he hated it and didn't want to.

if your goal is to be competitive---sure- give Whiteside a max

When Lebron left, followed by D-Wade and then losing Bosh to blood clots, the Heat were thrown into rebuilding mode. When you are rebuilding, the first goal is to become competitive. That is what the Heat appear to have become. The next step is to get a top flight player to add to the mix which they may very well be able to do or may have on their roster already. Time will tell, but not for at least another season or 2.

 

[WiggyRuss]

You may not agree, but 29 teams not named the


When Lebron left, followed by D-Wade and then losing Bosh to blood clots, the Heat were thrown into rebuilding mode. When you are rebuilding, the first goal is to become competitive. That is what the Heat appear to have become. The next step is to get a top flight player to add to the mix which they may very well be able to do or may have on their roster already. Time will tell, but not for at least another season or 2.

see- i dont agree with that--- if i were rebuilding my first goal would be to lose, lose, and lose some more- and get as many young players and draft picks as i possibly could that will be entering their primes when my team is finally able to have enough assets/young players

like i have said over and over again- my first goal would be to raze it all to the ground- to trade everything with any value- trade Dragic, trade Whiteside, be terrible----- rent out your cap space for more assets etc....get a Lonzo Ball or Fultz--- and the next year go and get him a running mate. and with those extra picks get those guys another running mate.

because all they are doing now is being competitive/treading water--- the worst place to be in the NBA is the middle with no upward mobility- and they really have no avenues to become a high level team besides a lotto tickets chance they will sign an A level free agent- when plenty of other teams have more attractive rosters for a star to join. They wont have a high draft pick- they dont have enough assets to warrant a trade call on a Butler or a George- at least not a serious one.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Not that i agree with you about Tristan- but i think you ahve some interesting points there

i dont think Whiteside is necessarily a bad fit--- i just think paying a center that cant pass, and cant shoot and cant switch in todays league landscape of spacing and shooting puts you behind the 8 ball and limits the upside of your team.

if your goal is to be competitive---sure- give Whiteside a max

if your goal is to try and win a title or go deep into the playoffs- and you think he can be the best or 2nd best player on a championship contender- then i think a team that gives him max money will be sorely dissapointed.

Heat were 1 win from ECF last year.
Who are these great other teams that have taken your approach?

 

[WiggyRuss]

They sucked forever and will again soon enough, so maybe they should have tried any other plan?

Seems to me Heat also signed a bunch of other very good players.

Its pretty fun to watch you argue about how bad they are, when for 2 months, nobodys been better.

I know the first half of the season happened, but lets pretend it didnt.

This isnt the same team.

What would your opinion be if the 2nd half was the first half and the Heat were starting out at 22-5?

obviously they arent as bad as the Sixers or the Suns or the Lakers etc--- but id much rather have any of those teams futures.

the Heat just have no upward mobility- wont have a high draft pick- dont have nearly enough assets to be competitive in the trade market for a star--- and shit- if they resign waiters and jjohnson- its not even likely they would have cap space to sign a star- let alone be attractive enough of a roster for a star to choose them over other teams that are far superior like Boston who will have cap space.

the worst place in the NBA isnt where the Lakers or Sixers or Suns are--- its on the fringe of the playoffs with no upward mobility like the HEat.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

see- i dont agree with that--- if i were rebuilding my first goal would be to lose, lose, and lose some more- and get as many young players and draft picks as i possibly could that will be entering their primes when my team is finally able to have enough assets/young players

like i have said over and over again- my first goal would be to raze it all to the ground- to trade everything with any value- trade Dragic, trade Whiteside, be terrible----- rent out your cap space for more assets etc....get a Lonzo Ball or Fultz--- and the next year go and get him a running mate. and with those extra picks get those guys another running mate.

because all they are doing now is being competitive/treading water--- the worst place to be in the NBA is the middle with no upward mobility- and they really have no avenues to become a high level team besides a lotto tickets chance they will sign an A level free agent- when plenty of other teams have more attractive rosters for a star to join. They wont have a high draft pick- they dont have enough assets to warrant a trade call on a Butler or a George- at least not a serious one.

Losing franchises love the tanking excuse.
Then continue to suck forever, regardless.
Proud franchises like the Heat find a way to win.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

obviously they arent as bad as the Sixers or the Suns or the Lakers etc--- but id much rather have any of those teams futures.

the Heat just have no upward mobility- wont have a high draft pick- dont have nearly enough assets to be competitive in the trade market for a star--- and shit- if they resign waiters and jjohnson- its not even likely they would have cap space to sign a star- let alone be attractive enough of a roster for a star to choose them over other teams that are far superior like Boston who will have cap space.

the worst place in the NBA isnt where the Lakers or Sixers or Suns are--- its on the fringe of the playoffs with no upward mobility like the HEat.

Been through this already.
The sum of Waiters, Johnson and Johnson >> Blake, George or any player who will want a max that isn't worthy of it.

On another note, Waiters 'people' fell he will be offered a max or near max.
I say no way.

 

[bksballer89]

Losing franchises love the tanking excuse.
Then continue to suck forever, regardless.
Proud franchises like the Heat find a way to win.

Exactly.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Losing franchises love the tanking excuse.
Then continue to suck forever, regardless.
Proud franchises like the Heat find a way to win.

but without Dwade and a top 5 pick the Big 3 era would have never happened. The entire era was predicated on sucking and getting a high level player with a high lotto pick- just as i propounded.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

but without Dwade and a top 5 pick the Big 3 era would have never happened. The entire era was predicated on sucking and getting a high level player with a high lotto pick- just as i propounded.

Riley didn't even want Wade, is the story, but who knows.
He could have easily been taken lower.
You can't just look at results and assume they were the assumed.
Not only that, the lotto balls can bounce any which way.
That's how the Bulls got Rose and the Cavs Kyrie, as examples.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Been through this already.
The sum of Waiters, Johnson and Johnson >> Blake, George or any player who will want a max that isn't worthy of it.

On another note, Waiters 'people' fell he will be offered a max or near max.
I say no way.

that is honestly the dumbest thing i have ever heard. The Golden Rule of the NBA has been you never trade a dollar for 4 quarters.

 

[trojanfan12]

see- i dont agree with that--- if i were rebuilding my first goal would be to lose, lose, and lose some more- and get as many young players and draft picks as i possibly could that will be entering their primes when my team is finally able to have enough assets/young players

The point of the losing is to become competitive. However, that rarely works. The Cavs got 3 number 1 picks in 4 years and the only reason they are where they are is because Lebron came back. Had he stayed in Miami or gone somewhere else, the Cavs would still be fighting for lottery balls.

What the Heat are/were doing is actually a good way to rebuild a little more quickly. They got into the lottery and got what appears to be a nice young player in Winslow (so an asset that can be developed or traded, they signed a very good PG in Dragic, they are developing a very talented young center in Whiteside and they appear to be getting Waiters to actually play to his talent level. Not sure what more they are supposed to do. If this were any other team in the league besides the Heat, you'd be praising everything they're doing and predicting great things for their future. But, it's the Heat and we all know that you are completely irrational when it comes to the Heat.

because all they are doing now is being competitive/treading water--- the worst place to be in the NBA is the middle with no upward mobility- and they really have no avenues to become a high level team besides a lotto tickets chance they will sign an A level free agent- when plenty of other teams have more attractive rosters for a star to join. They wont have a high draft pick- they dont have enough assets to warrant a trade call on a Butler or a George- at least not a serious one.

Again, you are wrong. There are more ways to rebuild than simply tanking. You think it's the only way to do it because it's what Cleveland did. But the fact is, as I've already pointed out, the Cavs tanking didn't work. Lebron returning is what worked.

 

[bksballer89]

Teams really don't give a fuck anymore.

Report: Suns to sit Bledsoe for rest of season

 

[knowyourenemy]

Prob splitting hairs.
The teams prob reached out to his people, letting them know their hopes/intentions that they would offer if he was interested.
I'm pretty sure he had 6 possible options to choose from.

There are a lot of rumors that circulate during the free agency period. I wouldn't hang my hat on the number 6. The number of teams willing to max him could be lower . . . also could be higher.

Suffice it to say that more than one team was willing to offer him a max contract. I don't think Miami really had much of a choice but to offer him the deal. What else were/are they going to use that money for? LeBron is gone. Wade is gone. Bosh's career is over. What prospective free agent were they going to spend that money on?

 

[LAD]

SPURS really need to get Parker and Murray back.
Having no point guard is killing them again.

The backcourt was thin, but at least it was average with TP and DM.
I am pissed that the spurs passed on a lot of those waiver wire point guards out there.

tonights game reminds me of OKC. There is not a lot Pop can do.

Westbrook and Olapido lit these spurs backup guards up.
Tonight Lillard and McCollum are copying that tactic.

Thank you PORTLAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!