2016-17 NBA Regular Season Thread

[trojanfan12]

Whiteside has greatly improved his perimeter D, and offers prob the best rim protection in the league.

Whiteside also has a better upside (lol) than TK. TK is as good as he's ever going to be. Whiteside could still improve (which is kinda scary).

 

[Wamu]

Great news for the Spurs...

Good deal.

 

[trojanfan12]

RW is not winning the MVP. the last 30 years of NBA history tells you that. If it happens it would go against some firmly established precedent.

I disagree. I'm not saying he will win it. But how many guys have averaged a triple double over the past 30 years?

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Whiteside also has a better upside (lol) than TK. TK is as good as he's ever going to be. Whiteside could still improve (which is kinda scary).

He literally improves month to month.

 

[Heatles84]

I disagree. I'm not saying he will win it. But how many guys have averaged a triple double over the past 30 years?

Glad you said it. I was trying to figure out what he meant. Oscar averaged his trouble double when? The early 70's?

 

[Wamu]

I disagree. I'm not saying he will win it. But how many guys have averaged a triple double over the past 30 years?

Zero. But I think 31 years ago someone averaged trip-dub.

 

[Wamu]

Glad you said it. I was trying to figure out what he meant. Oscar averaged his trouble double when? The early 70's?

The Big O averaged his trip-dub in '62.

 

[WiggyRuss]

He literally improves month to month.

here is a great little read for you. LOL

Hassan Whiteside’s impact during the Miami Heat’s 19-4 stretch

Whiteside during Miami’s dominant stretch
In Spoelstra’s opinion, although Whitside’s numbers have gone down over the past two months, his intangibles have reached new heights. From Manny Navarro of the Miami Herald:

“What I love about him is he has an approach that he wants to get better. He wants to learn. He wants to really take the responsibility of impacting winning…I think in the last six weeks he’s played the best winning basketball he’s ever played in a Miami Heat uniform. It’s not his best statistical stretch and he loves it. He’s becoming a great teammate, he’s enjoying impacting winning and I don’t want to put a ceiling on that either.”
It’s impossible to quantify how much Whiteside “enjoys” impacting wins. (I mean, I guess, theoretically we could note how often he smiles after setting a good screen, or something.)

What we can do is take a dive into his numbers, and see how he’s fared since Jan. 15. We’ll start with his raw stats:

• 55.5 percent shooting, 69.0 percent from the free-throw line, 15.1 points, 13.7 rebounds, 0.6 assists (sigh), 0.8 steals, 1.8 blocks, 2.0 turnovers, 2.5 fouls.

His numbers are down almost across the board, including field goal attempts (13.3 FGA per game for the first 37 games, 11.2 afterwards).

Additionally, Miami’s center boasts a plus/minus ofplus-5.1in that span, a clip that’s just sixth-best on the team. He’s behind Waiters (6.5), James Johnson (6.2), Wayne Ellington (6.1), Josh Richardson (5.7) and Dragic (5.6).

Whiteside’s backup — Willie Reed — is eighth on the team, with a plus-3.9.

If you only looked at that metric, you’d think Whiteside was vastly outperforming the first-year Heat big man. But upon closer examination, you would come to find out the opposite is true.

The Reed/Whiteside conundrum
Over the Heat’s last 23 games, they’ve been more effective with Reed on the floor instead of Whiteside.

By just how much?

NBA.com’s on/off numbers claim Miami is aplus-12.2 (per 100 possessions) with Reed at the 5. With Whiteside, that number dwindles to a plus-6.5. The 5.7-point difference may seem minute, but it isn’t. It’s a stark gulf which tells an intriguing story.

After all, it’s hard to fathom how a player like Reed, with averages of 5.3 points and 4.6 rebounds since Jan. 15, could make that much of an overall impact in limited minutes.

Part of it could have to do with his low usage rate. Reed simply doesn’t take away possessions from the Heat’s two best offensive players, Dragic and Waiters. Reed checks in, sets excellent screens and crashes the glass. That’s it.

Meanwhile, Whiteside is a player who demands touches. It’s only logical, Miami made a huge investment on him this offseason; he should (try to) carry a brunt of the offense when he’s in the game.

Thus, Whiteside posts up 28.6 percent of the time he has the ball. Unfortunately, he does so with startling ineffectiveness.

Among players who post up with a 15 percent frequency, and over 100 possessions down low, Whiteside is second-worst in the NBA with 0.74 points per possession (PPP).

Far too often, Whiteside either rushes his opportunities, or has to settle for hook shots from unfavorable distances.

For someone with such an unrefined post game, wouldn’t it make sense to scrap those plays all together? Make no mistake, 0.74 PPP is flat-out awful. Just to compare, Harrison freaking Barnes is scoring 1.01 PPP on similar looks.

Not only that, Whiteside’s backup, Reed, posts up on merely 6.7 percent of his touches. And when he does so, he’sfar more effective. Reed’s 1.00 PPP on post-ups is a higher clip than Marc Gasol’s.

What’s more, the one area Whiteside is borderline-elite is as the pick-and-roll big man. He scores 1.20 PPP as the screen and roller, which is 15th-best in the NBA among players who have done it over 40 times. No. 17 on that list, though, is Willie Reed, also at 1.20 PPP.

Essentially, the Heat do not miss Whiteside’s pick-and-roll abilities when he goes to the bench, because they’re perfectly replicated by Reed.

A look at the other side of the ball
During Miami’s 19-4 run, Whiteside has posted a defensive rating of 104.5, compared to Reed’s 98.0. (The lower a defensive rating, the better, by the way.)

Part of that has to do with who each player shares the floor with; Whiteside plays the bulk of his minutes with Dragic, who is arguably the team’s worst perimeter defender, while Reed checks in with Richardson and Tyler Johnson, two of the Heat’s best.

That may explain part of what’s going on, but it’s definitely not everything.

Whiteside’s feel for the game isn’t all that great, and some of his issues stem from struggling to grasp when to go for a block, and when to simply box out and rebound. Sometimes he does understand, but doesn’t get to his spots fast enough.

all fairness, Whiteside has improved a ton defensively since last year. His decrease in blocked shots may actually be a good thing, since he’s taking far less gambles this season. Not to mention, his 37.7 defensive rebound rate since Jan. 15 is the second-best clip in the NBA (meaning he’s boxing out instead of going for blocks).

Moreover, even though the numbers may contradict Spoelstra’s point about how Whiteside is impacting wins (some could even argue Reed has a bigger impact in his brief stints), at least the Heat center has had the right attitude about it.

 

[trojanfan12]

exactly- I mean- If Kobe was healthy anyway- which- of course- you cant control (to a certain extent).

Even with him hurt and his availability uncertain from game to game, they still made far more than they paid him because of people wanting one last look at an all time great.

If he sticks around through a steep decline, the Cavs will have the same opportunity with Lebron when he gets old. The difference may be that he will still have a better supporting cast around him than Kobe did, which will make it even more lucrative for the Cavs.

 

[trojanfan12]

great news....Would love to see the Spurs face the Warriors in a playoff series- and if not beat them- at least give them hell.

Id love to see Kawhi chase Durant around the court for 7 games.....that would be great news for the Defending Champs.

I don't know. If I'm a Cavs fan, I would agree with the Spurs giving the Warriors hell, but I'm not sure I'd want the Spurs to actually beat them. I'm beginning to think the Spurs may be better equipped than the Warriors.

 

[WiggyRuss]

this just goes to show you exactly what i have been saying-

post play is just not an efficient way to get buckets

post play by Hassan Whiteside is a GAWD AWFUL- DEAD CAT IN THE 98 DEGREE SUN REEK- way to get offense.

 

[Heatles84]

The Big O averaged his trip-dub in '62.

Ok. So hasn't been done in over 50 years. Don't understand how there's a precedent set then considering guys aren't averaging a triple double every season. Sad thing is for Westbrook, regardless of how special his season is, I have Harden as my MVP leader followed by Westbrook (and it's close with Bron).

 

[WiggyRuss]

I don't know. If I'm a Cavs fan, I would agree with the Spurs giving the Warriors hell, but I'm nit sure I'd want the Spurs to actually beat them. I'm beginning to think the Spurs may be better equipped than the Warriors.

i gotta see it from Kawhi first--- he was great with great leadership around him- but i havent seen him be the GUY and be dominant in the playoffs

im sure he will get there- but im confident that LeBron could beat him- Alrdidge and Love would cancel eachother out pretty much- and i just like the rest of the CAvs better.

the Draymond/Love matchup really is a great advantage for the warriors- and so is LeBron probably having to guard KD a fair amount.

 

[trojanfan12]

did you see both Deng and Mozgov have been shut down?

dude- Jeanie should have made her move a year ago.....itll all be fine if you keep the pick though...

Yeah. The one positive in those signings is that they have both been great as far as mentoring the young guys. That even includes how they have handled not playing. They have been complete professionals about it, especially Deng.

Interesting that you mention that about Jeanie. In an interview after she made the changes, she actually apologized to Lakers fans for not doing it sooner.

 

[trojanfan12]

Zero. But I think 31 years ago someone averaged trip-dub.

31 years? Is it 1993 where you are? Am I posting from the future?

If so, you're not going to be very happy with 2016-17. The season is almost over and the Celtics are looking at being the first team in history to go 0-82.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

we shall see.

whichever way the vote goes down...it'll be real close.

I don't think it will...

And not because Dray isn't worthy.

He's being overshadowed by 3 other guys on his team.

Kawhi has zero competition and could lead his team to the overall best record.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

this just goes to show you exactly what i have been saying-

post play is just not an efficient way to get buckets

post play by Hassan Whiteside is a GAWD AWFUL- DEAD CAT IN THE 98 DEGREE SUN REEK- way to get offense.

Still waiting for the 'logic' on how you chose the other 3.

As far as your post, not reading all of it, but bottom line is Whiteside plays 3/4 of the game and Spoelstra aint no dummy

 

[WiggyRuss]

Still waiting for the 'logic' on how you chose the other 3.

As far as your post, not reading all of it, but bottom line is Whiteside plays 3/4 of the game and Spoelstra aint no dummy

I mean the fact that Willie Reed has been more/just as valuable according to those stats is definitely a starting point. LOL.

 

[trojanfan12]

i gotta see it from Kawhi first--- he was great with great leadership around him- but i havent seen him be the GUY and be dominant in the playoffs

Agree, that's the next step for him. So far, so good. But the playoffs are where the true superstars separate themselves from guys who are just "really good." All signs point to him taking that step without a problem, but until he does it, it's an unknown.

Imo, what makes the Spurs dangerous for the Cavs (aside from having the best coach in the league) is that they can attack the Cavs where they are weakest defensively and still match them from 3 point range.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Yeah. The one positive in those signings is that they have both been great as far as mentoring the young guys. That even includes how they have handled not playing. They have been complete professionals about it, especially Deng.

Interesting that you mention that about Jeanie. In an interview after she made the changes, she actually apologized to Lakers fans for not doing it sooner.

what happened is something that I have heard some lectures about--- when the personal interests of management and their goals- are not aligned with the goals of the organization.

Signing Mozgov and Deng was a desperate move by Buss to try and save his job. It wasnt done with the best interest of the long term status of organization in mind.

this type of things happens all the time in pro sports where you have lame duck GM's, front office personnel who are on the hot seat- and they make moves to try and save themselves rather than what is in the best interest of the team.

I think that was a huge factor in paying so much for Deng and Mozgov- as i said previously I think Jimmy was probably pissing himself with excitement while the Lakers were 10-10 in November thinking those moves had paid off big time- until the floor kind of fell out.