2016-17 NBA Regular Season Thread

[WiggyRuss]

Figured they would. Although losing 5 guys to injury will tend to bring a team back to earth as well.

very true - all though hell- playing a lot of teams with injuries--- freaking the Grizzlies were missing Conley, Randolph, Carter and Parsons for the game against hte Lakers--- the Jazz were missing Hill and Favors.

Lakers have had a lot of injuries to guys- but the only one that i see as significant is Russell-most of the rest of the guys are basically replacement level guys anyway.

Lakers schedule after Houston is REALLY REALLY easy for 5 games before they play the Cavs. itll be interesting to see what their record is for those 5 easy games.

 

[gordontrue]

Kyrie is way better than the narrative going on here. His defense and playmaking are much better than he gets credit for. The only thing really holding him back career wise is his injuries. Hopefully he can stay healthy and we can see what he's capable of.

If Kyrie's not a top-15 player.... that'll just make it that much more amazing if the Cavs and their 1 top-15 player can find away to beat the Warriors and their 4 top-15 players.

 

[bksballer89]

Kyrie is way better than the narrative going on here. His defense and playmaking are much better than he gets credit for. The only thing really holding him back career wise is his injuries. Hopefully he can stay healthy and we can see what he's capable of.

If Kyrie's not a top-15 player.... that'll just make it that much more amazing if the Cavs and their 1 top-15 player can find away to beat the Warriors and their 4 top-15 players.

I think Kyrie is a damn good basketball player. I'm just not sure how great he would be/how much better he can make a team if he's the only star surrounded with a bunch of mediocre players. I'm also not sure how good he can be if he's the only true play maker on the team. On the Cavs (as turnup noted), he doesn't have to worry about getting others involved really as that falls on Lebron. He can just worry about making buckets and being aggressive on offense.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Kyrie is way better than the narrative going on here. His defense and playmaking are much better than he gets credit for. The only thing really holding him back career wise is his injuries. Hopefully he can stay healthy and we can see what he's capable of.

If Kyrie's not a top-15 player.... that'll just make it that much more amazing if the Cavs and their 1 top-15 player can find away to beat the Warriors and their 4 top-15 players.

ehh....with who it is coming from you just gotta take it with a grain of salt.

If there was like a NBA Live expansion draft- no way Kyrie is on the board by the time the 16th pick rolls around.--- as i said in another post- hes not Harden, or LeBron or Curry or Westbrook or Paul or Durant - those are the guys that can carry a team by themselves for the most part--- only a small handful of guys isn the league can do that--- KI is still below Kawhi Leonard and Paul George, and possibly Lillard (thought that is debatable).....but he is right there with that next group of guys.....hes not the elite of the elite- hes not a top 10 guy yet- but he is certainly knocking on the door- and the best part is- he is only going to continue to improve until he hits his prime....as i was saying- RW is gonna have a helluva chance to win his first MVP at 28--- Curry did at 27....that sweet spot of your prime is about 26-29 years old....its gonna be very interesting to see just how good Kyrie can be once he hits that sweet spot in a couple years. But even right now- at 24- hes one of the best of the best.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I cant wait for the game vs. the Knicks tonight---- i think that it has potential to be a very very fun game to watch....Knicks coming off a road game on a back to back--- the Cavs waiting for them in NYC (though thats not good- off night in NYC....lol)..

Anything can happen- but i really want the Cavs to step on the Knicks throats and beat the shit out of them- if they somehow throw this game away itll be the first time all year when i will be legitimately pissed off after a loss.

 

[trojanfan12]

yah....stupid businessman go from practically nothing to over 4 billion dollars.

Its his HOBBY. The Cavs. Its a lot of these guys' hobbies that have bought in to the league in the last decade + - Cuban, Gilbert, Ballmer, Ranadive, Prokorov, guys like Paul Allen that have been there forever- they dont expect to make a profit and dont need to make a profit on their NBA team....they have entities like Microsoft and Quicken Loans and computer startups, and cruiselines and commodoties conglomerates, or humongous real estate companies that have netted them billions and billions. These guys bought NBA teams to have a big shiny toy that they can play with--- and all of these guys acquired their billions from being super competitive.

A lot of the old owners- the Pollin's in Washington, the Miller's in Utah, the Buss' in LA, ---those are the guys that bought in early- and the NBA IS their primary business (Pollin obviously died and sold- as did Miller- though Miller's wife may still own the team- not sure on that one off the top of my head). It IS the main source of their wealth.

Its why when Dr. Jerry Buss died the estate had to section 6166 the estate taxes....you pay 40% tax on everything over 5.45 million dollars. The Lakers have to be worth the most in the league i would think- and the Clippers had just recently sold for 2 billion- lets say conservatively they valued his share of the Lakers at $1 billion at the time of Buss' death- that means- when that asset transfers his estate has to pay $400 million in estate tax. If you qualify- you can stretch that payment out over 15 years. The section was originally constructed for family farms of all things--- think about it- you own a family farm in a rural area- and all of a sudden a city builds up around or near it- and when once the property was worth like $100,000 and maybe you made 50K a year from the farm----- all of a sudden the land is now worth $10 million dollars....well people thought it was unfair to make someone sell theier family farm to pay the estate tax- about $2 million on a $10mllion dollar farm (10M- minus the exemption of about 5 million= paying 40% on 5 million = 2 million)-- which obviously the farmer didnt have- so they allowed you to stretch that over 15 years if you met certain qualifications. Its exactly what happened to the Lakers--- Dr. Jerry died--- the "farm" was worth prob. about $1 billion- and the family would have to find $400 million in cash.....instead- since they didnt want to sell the "farm"- they decided to stretch the payments out of 15 years-prob about 30M a year after computing interest- probably right from the Time Warner deal----so - between revenue sharing ($50), and estate taxes ($30) take about $80 million right off the top on an ANNUAL basis.....very interesting......i am actually working on a similar project right now- though at a much much smaller scale.

Estate Planning: Lessons Learned From Lakers Owner Jerry Buss | JD Supra
Children of Jerry Buss Won't Sell Lakers to Pay Estate Tax - The O'Brien Law FirmThe O'Brien Law Firm

If a businessman is dipping into his own pocket. He's stupid. The whole point of a business is to be profitable and NOT have to dip into their own pocket.

The fact that you don't understand that is hilarious.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I think Kyrie is a damn good basketball player. I'm just not sure how great he would be/how much better he can make a team if he's the only star surrounded with a bunch of mediocre players. I'm also not sure how good he can be if he's the only true play maker on the team. On the Cavs (as turnup noted), he doesn't have to worry about getting others involved really as that falls on Lebron. He can just worry about making buckets and being aggressive on offense.

oh yah- there are only a precious few- a very small handful of guys that you can surround with mediocre talent and have a winning team- the LeBron's, Harden, Westbrook, Durant, Paul, Curry--- that 1st and highest tier--- even Paul George and Kawhi Leonard and Lillard i wouldnt put into that 1st territory.....after those 8-9 guys you have a 2nd tier that you can rank very fluid from about 10-18 depending on preference---- but only that very small handful of guys- somehwere between 6 and 10 guys- can actually carry a team without other great players around them. Kyrie isnt there yet- but he is also not in his prime yet.

 

[WiggyRuss]

If a businessman is dipping into his own pocket. He's stupid. The whole point of a business is to be profitable and NOT have to dip into their own pocket.

The fact that you don't understand that is hilarious.

the fact that you dont understand that he has made billions and treats the Cavs as his hobby is absolutely hilarious to me. When you own Quicken Loans- which has generated the billions and billions of net worth Gilbert has amassed as a self-made man- dropping an extra 50 mill to acquire a Larry O'Brien trophy AINT SHIT its small potatos bro...i dont get why you cant wrap your head around that. you have to look beyond the small picture and see the big picture here. You are seeing the trees and not the forest.

the whole point of owning the Cavs is not to be profitable. You think Steve Ballmer paid 2 billion for the clippers because he was trying to make money?--- its a status symbol- a hobby to these ultra-rich billionaire's where they can stroke their ego's.

 

[bksballer89]

I cant wait for the game vs. the Knicks tonight---- i think that it has potential to be a very very fun game to watch....Knicks coming off a road game on a back to back--- the Cavs waiting for them in NYC (though thats not good- off night in NYC....lol)..

Anything can happen- but i really want the Cavs to step on the Knicks throats and beat the shit out of them- if they somehow throw this game away itll be the first time all year when i will be legitimately pissed off after a loss.

Cavs win but I doubt they step on their throats. Knicks been playing very good. Especially at home

 

[bksballer89]

Melo working on ball hog habit, Jackson says

 

[trojanfan12]

who do you rank over him?

In the West:

CP3
Russell Westbrook
Steph Curry
Damien Lillard
Mike Conley

In the East:

Kyle Lowry
John Wall

When all is said and done, Russell and Exum may pass him too. Although I'm starting to wonder about Exum.

 

[WiggyRuss]

In the West:

CP3
Russell Westbrook
Steph Curry
Damien Lillard
Mike Conley

In the East:

Kyle Lowry
John Wall

When all is said and done, Russell and Exum may pass him too. Although I'm starting to wonder about Exum.

I can see arguments for RW, Curry, Paul and Lillard....

everything passed that is laughable.

russell? LOL...Russell ?? when you compare Russell's and Kyrie's first years--- who both played under the same coach their first year- Kyrie simply fucking CRUSHES Russell. Thus far in year 2 much of the same. Cant compare much more than that- but if you compare the rookie seasons of the two- kyrie flat out destroys Russell and its not even close. Russell is gonna have to shoot better than 41% and improve a turnover to assist ration that is barely better than 1:1--- numbers Kyrie absolutely SMOKED his first year (under the same exact coach). There is a reason why Kyrie was ROY and Russell was not.

Kyrie WON the ROY award his rookie year

Russell finished 9th

there are some very good reasons for that.

I mean- Kyrie was better at everything--- field goal %, 3 pt %, free throw %, rebounds, steals, assist to to turnover ratio....its like comparing Ohio State to Marshall.

 

[trojanfan12]

very true - all though hell- playing a lot of teams with injuries--- freaking the Grizzlies were missing Conley, Randolph, Carter and Parsons for the game against hte Lakers--- the Jazz were missing Hill and Favors.

Lakers have had a lot of injuries to guys- but the only one that i see as significant is Russell-most of the rest of the guys are basically replacement level guys anyway.

Lakers schedule after Houston is REALLY REALLY easy for 5 games before they play the Cavs. itll be interesting to see what their record is for those 5 easy games.

The Lakers are missing their starting point guard and their starting shooting guard. Granted, the starting shooting guard is Nick Young, but he hasn't been playing like Nick Young. They also lost their backup point guard, Calderon their backup pf/sf in Larry Nance, their backup center in Tarik Black and were without Julius Randle for 3 games.

That many injuries not only messes up the starting lineup and but their depth too, which has been a huge reason they have done so much better than expected so far.

I'm hoping they have everyone back by the time they play the Cavs. I don't expect them to win, but it'll be fun to see how they measure up against the champs. Hopefully,the Cavs won't decide to rest Lebron in that game. I want to see how these kids, especially Randle, handle playing him.

 

[WiggyRuss]

The Lakers are missing their starting point guard and their starting shooting guard. Granted, the starting shooting guard is Nick Young, but he hasn't been playing like Nick Young. They also lost their backup point guard, Calderon their backup pf/sf in Larry Nance, their backup center in Tarik Black and were without Julius Randle for 3 games.

That many injuries not only messes up the starting lineup and but their depth too, which has been a huge reason they have done so much better than expected so far.

I'm hoping they have everyone back by the time they play the Cavs. I don't expect them to win, but it'll be fun to see how they measure up against the champs. Hopefully,the Cavs won't decide to rest Lebron in that game. I want to see how these kids, especially Randle, handle playing him.

oh i totally agree- im just saying- the Grizzlies missing players like Conley, Parsons, Randolph, Carter is a lot more significant then missing Nick Young, Jose Calderon, Tarik Black and DeAngelou Russell.....as i said- Russell is the only one that is better than replacement level- though i do understand how that cna mess with a rotaiton---

practically speaking with the minutes they are playing Williams and Clarkson are the main back court guys even fi they dont "start"- and MWP is "starting" and playing 15 minutes or whatever.

 

[trojanfan12]

russell? LOL...Russell ?? when you compare Russell's and Kyrie's first years--- who both played under the same coach their first year- Kyrie simply fucking CRUSHES Russell.

Actually, several "experts" have both Wall and Lowry ranked ahead of Kyrie in the East. So, you're wrong there. One article I read had Kyrie as the 7th overall PG in the NBA with Conley 8th, so they are pretty interchangeable, imo. Kyrie needs to become a better assist man and start playing defense to move up.

As for Russell, I said "when all is said and done." I didn't say right now, so comparing their first couple of seasons is pretty idiotic. Especially since the Lakers had the Kobe farewell tour and were focusing on that more than developing Russell. So, as usual, you resort to responding to something other than what was posted and try to deflect because you have no real argument.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Actually, several "experts" have both Wall and Lowry ranked ahead of Kyrie in the East. So, you're wrong there. One article I read had Kyrie as the 7th overall PG in the NBA with Conley 8th, so they are pretty interchangeable, imo. Kyrie needs to become a better assist man and start playing defense to move up.

As for Russell, I said "when all is said and done." I didn't say right now, so comparing their first couple of seasons is pretty idiotic. Especially since the Lakers had the Kobe farewell tour and were focusing on that more than developing Russell. So, as usual, you resort to responding to something other than what was posted and try to deflect because you have no real argument.

"when all is said and done" doesnt mean shit though....I mean- you are welcome to your opinion- but its not based on anything anyone has seen thus far. Its certainly not based on any kind of hard evidence.

when all is said and done Kyrie is on the track to be a Hall of Famer and hes only 24 years old. At the end of the day what does that get him? not jack shit.

 

[trojanfan12]

h i totally agree- im just saying- the Grizzlies missing players like Conley, Parsons, Randolph, Carter is a lot more significant then missing Nick Young, Jose Calderon, Tarik Black and DeAngelou Russell.....as i said- Russell is the only one that is better than replacement level- though i do understand how that cna mess with a rotaiton---

If the Lakers were a veteran team, I'd agree. But a team this young that's still learning how to play in the NBA and hasn't really had to deal with that many injuries before is going to be effected more. Even if the individual players they lost aren't as good.

In a couple of years, I expect that the Lakers should be able to handle this many injuries without as much of an issue. But right now, that's a big ask. For example, they've had to play Ingram heavy minutes (he's actually led them in minutes played 6 times already). That will be good for his development down the road, but right now, he struggles a bit with the work load.

 

[trojanfan12]

"when all is said and done" doesnt mean shit though....

Really?!?

It's the exact same argument you use when you say that Lebron will end up as #2 all time. So, you're either wrong, or a hypocrite.

Which is it?

 

[bksballer89]

In the West:

CP3
Russell Westbrook
Steph Curry
Damien Lillard
Mike Conley

In the East:

Kyle Lowry
John Wall

When all is said and done, Russell and Exum may pass him too. Although I'm starting to wonder about Exum.

I agree

 

[WiggyRuss]

Really?!?

It's the exact same argument you use when you say that Lebron will end up as #2 all time. So, you're either wrong, or a hypocrite.

Which is it?

oh it definitely doesnt mean shit when i say- LeBron may end up as 2nd all time---- means nothing at all- he has to get there- he could tear his ACL tonight and be screwed. However- at least saying LeBron may end up being 2nd all time is BASED on something.

SAying Russell may be better than Kyrie is based on exactly what? absolutely NOTHINg that we have seen thus far. There is zero hard backup that you can point to for that opinion. Its just whistling dixie out of your ass and wishing on a star.