2016-17 NBA Regular Season Thread

[WiggyRuss]

Not what I said.
You're twisting words.
I said Kyrie contributes more to winning on the Cavs then Dragic would, because he's a better shooter/ scorer.

A team like the Heat is bad enough as is, but would be worse if the just had 1 pure scorer vs a player who can score, plus knows how to get others involved.

you have no clue what Kyrie would do in another situation....if you are basing what he would do in another situation off his age 19, 20, 21 seasons on a team that was mostly trying to tank you are clueless.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

you have no clue what Kyrie would do in another situation....if you are basing what he would do in another situation off his age 19, 20, 21 seasons on a team that was mostly trying to tank you are clueless.

Possibly.
But neither do you.
I'm not basing it on his age, I'm basing it on his perceived role, which I always have.
It's comes down to roster IMO.

You really think Kyrie leading the Heat would make them more competitive the Dragic does?

 

[WiggyRuss]

Possibly.
But neither do you.
I'm not basing it on his age, I'm basing it on his perceived role, which I always have.
It's comes down to roster IMO.

You really think Kyrie leading the Heat would make them more competitive the Dragic does?

uhhh yah....replacing a point guard who is somewhere right outside the top 10 at his position with a guy who is a top 15 player in the league would make a team better....lol...

not only that- but especially on that team that is so freaking starved for offense and shooting- to be honest i couldnt think of much better of a place for Kyrie with his ability to get a shot with how devoid Miami is of offensive talent.

shit- i think a guy with a similar skill set to Kyrie's would actually be just the exact right thing for the Heat. lol....i mean shit...especially having a big SG like Richardson and a defense first SF like Winslow

 

[WiggyRuss]

Kyrie is more in that category with Klay Thompson and a few other guys in that 2nd tier though---

Kyrie isnt Harden, or LeBron or Westbrook, Curry or Paul or Durant yet..maybe Paul George...maybe Lillard, maybe Kawhi---

Kyrie couldnt carry a team on his own without another great player by his side- at least not very far anyway which puts him in that 2nd tier.

i dont know where to put guys like Towns and AD- becuase they are too young to judge yet--- but if you just take them right now--- Klay, Towns, AD, Kyrie, Butler, Griffin, Drummond, Kemba, DeRozan

then you get those 2nd tier/3rd tier guys like Lowry and Melo and Cousins and Conley and Aldridge--- vets that never became 1st tier guys- but are helluva good players.

...i almost want to put Lillard in that first group- but he hasnt really done much on his own beside win a playoff series vs. the Clips without Paul and Griffin, and Lillard should be right about at the top of his game at age 26....that- and he plays worse defense then even Kyrie does.

Kawhi is a guy that straddles those 2 groups as well.....id tend to put him closer to the 2nd group then the first though.

Some of those guys in that 2nd group will eventually become 1st group guys when they hit their primes....will be intersting to see which ones those are.



so yah- im not putting Kyrie among the elites of the elite just yet---- but he is definitely in that 2nd group with a lot of great players. Whether he was playing on the Cavs or the Sixers or on Blancote's old team in Liberia or wherever- he is without a doubt one of the 15 most talented basketball players on the planet.

 

[Hornsstampede2.0]

Break up the Knicks

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

uhhh yah....replacing a point guard who is somewhere right outside the top 10 at his position with a guy who is a top 15 player in the league would make a team better....lol...

not only that- but especially on that team that is so freaking starved for offense and shooting- to be honest i couldnt think of much better of a place for Kyrie with his ability to get a shot with how devoid Miami is of offensive talent.

shit- i think a guy with a similar skill set to Kyrie's would actually be just the exact right thing for the Heat. lol....i mean shit...especially having a big SG like Richardson and a defense first SF like Winslow

Just because YOU say he's top 15 in the league doesn't make it fact.
I can easily make a list of 15 others I'd prefer to have on my team.
I would say he wouldn't even be an all star in the West, prob will in the East, but the entire system is flawed now because of unlimited internet voting , etc..

 

[trojanfan12]

How about 60?

Nah. TLF's attention span stops at 54. That's why he missed the 27 points of Kobe's 81 point game.

 

[trojanfan12]

Looks like the Lakers are coming back to earth in having lost the last 4 of 5 games

Figured they would. Although losing 5 guys to injury will tend to bring a team back to earth as well.

 

[trojanfan12]

basically- kyrie has really added an elite level of efficiency to his game this year. 6 guys in the league take over 19 shots a game. For Kyrie to take that many shots, and to be narrowly trailing the best shooter of all time - just shows how he has upped his game.

He's gonna have to add some defense before he's going to be considered in the same class with the top point guards in the league. He might be 2 or 3 in the East, but I'm not sure he'd even be top 5 in the West.

 

[trojanfan12]

any owner that shows how much he wants his team to win by dipping into his own pocket has my undying respect--

So you respect stupid businessmen?

 

[wildturkey]

you have no clue what Kyrie would do in another situation....if you are basing what he would do in another situation off his age 19, 20, 21 seasons on a team that was mostly trying to tank you are clueless.

Those teams weren't tanking. They just flat out sucked.

 

[bksballer89]

Those teams weren't tanking. They just flat out sucked.

I thought that was obvious . The plan wasn't to suck. I remember one of those years some expected the cavs to fight for a playoffs spot but they laid an egg . Have no idea where he got that tanking talk from. As you said they just really sucked

 

[WiggyRuss]

Those teams weren't tanking. They just flat out sucked.

is that a joke?

 

[Black Adam]

I thought that was obvious . The plan wasn't to suck. I remember one of those years some expected the cavs to fight for a playoffs spot but they laid an egg . Have no idea where he got that tanking talk from. As you said they just really sucked

yeah, that was true. the team was flat-out putrid...

 

[bksballer89]

is that a joke?

Na you're the joke. The Cavs plan was never to tank. They just sucked

 

[WiggyRuss]

So you respect stupid businessmen?

yah....stupid businessman go from practically nothing to over 4 billion dollars.

Its his HOBBY. The Cavs. Its a lot of these guys' hobbies that have bought in to the league in the last decade + - Cuban, Gilbert, Ballmer, Ranadive, Prokorov, guys like Paul Allen that have been there forever- they dont expect to make a profit and dont need to make a profit on their NBA team....they have entities like Microsoft and Quicken Loans and computer startups, and cruiselines and commodoties conglomerates, or humongous real estate companies that have netted them billions and billions. These guys bought NBA teams to have a big shiny toy that they can play with--- and all of these guys acquired their billions from being super competitive.

A lot of the old owners- the Pollin's in Washington, the Miller's in Utah, the Buss' in LA, ---those are the guys that bought in early- and the NBA IS their primary business (Pollin obviously died and sold- as did Miller- though Miller's wife may still own the team- not sure on that one off the top of my head). It IS the main source of their wealth.

Its why when Dr. Jerry Buss died the estate had to section 6166 the estate taxes....you pay 40% tax on everything over 5.45 million dollars. The Lakers have to be worth the most in the league i would think- and the Clippers had just recently sold for 2 billion- lets say conservatively they valued his share of the Lakers at $1 billion at the time of Buss' death- that means- when that asset transfers his estate has to pay $400 million in estate tax. If you qualify- you can stretch that payment out over 15 years. The section was originally constructed for family farms of all things--- think about it- you own a family farm in a rural area- and all of a sudden a city builds up around or near it- and when once the property was worth like $100,000 and maybe you made 50K a year from the farm----- all of a sudden the land is now worth $10 million dollars....well people thought it was unfair to make someone sell theier family farm to pay the estate tax- about $2 million on a $10mllion dollar farm (10M- minus the exemption of about 5 million= paying 40% on 5 million = 2 million)-- which obviously the farmer didnt have- so they allowed you to stretch that over 15 years if you met certain qualifications. Its exactly what happened to the Lakers--- Dr. Jerry died--- the "farm" was worth prob. about $1 billion- and the family would have to find $400 million in cash.....instead- since they didnt want to sell the "farm"- they decided to stretch the payments out of 15 years-prob about 30M a year after computing interest- probably right from the Time Warner deal----so - between revenue sharing ($50), and estate taxes ($30) take about $80 million right off the top on an ANNUAL basis.....very interesting......i am actually working on a similar project right now- though at a much much smaller scale.

Estate Planning: Lessons Learned From Lakers Owner Jerry Buss | JD Supra
Children of Jerry Buss Won't Sell Lakers to Pay Estate Tax - The O'Brien Law FirmThe O'Brien Law Firm

 

[WiggyRuss]

I thought that was obvious . The plan wasn't to suck. I remember one of those years some expected the cavs to fight for a playoffs spot but they laid an egg . Have no idea where he got that tanking talk from. As you said they just really sucked

the last year when they had traded for Deng in March and had signed Jarret Jack i would agree with you- the 3 years prior to that?-- DEFINITELY tanking. Not even a question.

 

[WiggyRuss]

He's gonna have to add some defense before he's going to be considered in the same class with the top point guards in the league. He might be 2 or 3 in the East, but I'm not sure he'd even be top 5 in the West.

who do you rank over him?

 

[bksballer89]

the last year when they had traded for Deng in March and had signed Jarret Jack i would agree with you- the 3 years prior to that?-- DEFINITELY tanking. Not even a question.

I think you're confusing tanking with rebuilding

 

[WiggyRuss]

I think you're confusing tanking with rebuilding

what would you call renting out your cap room for a broken down player like Baron Davis, and playing rookies, sitting out Kyrie every time he had a hang nail, trading away and or not resigning any of the vets. You honestly have to be blind if you think the Cavs were not tanking those first 3 years post-LeBron.

the Heat?--- i could say they are "rebuilding"--- when you resign guys like Whiteside and Johnson and spend tons of money- you definitely arent tanking- you are rebuilding.

The Cavs?- just like Philly- just like OKC/Seattle early on, there goal was DEFINITELY DEFINITELY NOT trying to win as many games as they could early on. Id say this is the first year that Philly isnt deliberately tanking in the last 4.

The CAvs traded away practically everything that they could for picks- took back bad contracts like Baron Davis, Luke Walton...they were definitely definitely tanking. I seriously do not even understand how anyone could think otherwise...i would love to hear an explanation of how they werent tanking- it would be complete nonsense--- except for that 4th year when they signed Jack and traded for Deng and Hawes in March.