2015 Rosterbation

[msgkings322]

My point is not that he only has 3 years left in him.

My point is that he will lose motivation to keep himself in shape if he has a long deal.

I believe that if he has a 3-year deal, he will have a near All-Star-quality season in '15. He will have a contract discussion soon enough to "keep him honest". If he signs a 5-year deal, he will have a sub-par year in '15 because he simply would care more about having fun.

The years in the contract, I believe, will directly effect the performance on the field in the early years.

I think you missed the point I was making, about him being older and more mature. In other words he's not a kid anymore, maybe he understands better that getting paid isn't a license to party. I trust Sabean and Bochy to figure out if that's the case, I'm just saying he won't be the first player to show immature habits when young then get a clue after a while. Maybe he's there.

Also, I don't care what he does in 2015 so maybe a 4 year deal?

 

[calsnowskier]

I think you missed the point I was making, about him being older and more mature. In other words he's not a kid anymore, maybe he understands better that getting paid isn't a license to party. I trust Sabean and Bochy to figure out if that's the case, I'm just saying he won't be the first player to show immature habits when young then get a clue after a while. Maybe he's there.

Also, I don't care what he does in 2015 so maybe a 4 year deal?

Alright, Captain Kirk...

 

[msgkings322]

Alright, Captain Kirk...

I'm Shatner!

No, I'm just sort of pessimistic about 2015...shouldn't we all be? It's not an even year, and we've discussed the team's holes over and over.

Of course they could do great, and that's how I'm rooting, and if they are contending in July I won't be calling for a fire sale. But sheesh, don't fall into the trap of conflating any pessimism as shatting. We've been here long enough to know the difference.

 

[Mays-Fan]

I think you missed the point I was making, about him being older and more mature. In other words he's not a kid anymore, maybe he understands better that getting paid isn't a license to party. I trust Sabean and Bochy to figure out if that's the case, I'm just saying he won't be the first player to show immature habits when young then get a clue after a while. Maybe he's there.

Also, I don't care what he does in 2015 so maybe a 4 year deal?

I would like to hope you are right regarding his conditioning. I didn't see any numbers, but I am guessing he put on at least 20 or 25 pounds during the 2014 year. He's not as bad as last year, but it does not bode well for future years, esp if he lands the big contract.

Also consider the way he plays, diving and twisting and sliding. He reminds me of a baseball version of John Belushi. Not that he would overdose, but if he ever did seriously injure a knee, I really question whether or not he would ever recover. I think if he blew out a knee, he would gain 60 lbs and his career would effectively be over. That's the biggest risk we have signing him to a 4 or 5 year deal, IMHO.

 

[calsnowskier]

There is a nice career perspective on Panda over on DrBs site. Certainly a good read.

 

[calsnowskier]

I'm Shatner!

No, I'm just sort of pessimistic about 2015...shouldn't we all be? It's not an even year, and we've discussed the team's holes over and over.

Of course they could do great, and that's how I'm rooting, and if they are contending in July I won't be calling for a fire sale. But sheesh, don't fall into the trap of conflating any pessimism as shatting. We've been here long enough to know the difference.

I was just giving you shit. I think entering '15 with VERY measured expectations is completely fair. This team may have had some kind of magic, and coupled (trio'd??) with '10 and '12, puts the org into a stratosphere seldom achieved in the history of this great game, but the team itself was mightily flawed and has many key pieces returning with an extra year on the tires.

I think making a run in '15 is possible, but certainly not likely.

 

[msgkings322]

I would like to hope you are right regarding his conditioning. I didn't see any numbers, but I am guessing he put on at least 20 or 25 pounds during the 2014 year. He's not as bad as last year, but it does not bode well for future years, esp if he lands the big contract.

Also consider the way he plays, diving and twisting and sliding. He reminds me of a baseball version of John Belushi. Not that he would overdose, but if he ever did seriously injure a knee, I really question whether or not he would ever recover. I think if he blew out a knee, he would gain 60 lbs and his career would effectively be over. That's the biggest risk we have signing him to a 4 or 5 year deal, IMHO.

Great analogy, yep. Same build really, big but surprisingly agile/nimble.

I don't think he has the nihilistic addict streak though, he was a young guy who liked to eat and had that kind of body. Hopefully he's got some maturity now that he's a veteran.

As usual I trust Bochy and Sabean, also we gotta remember, it's not like we have much of a plan B for 3B. It's not like deciding if we should overpay a starter, there's plenty of choices there.

 

[Mays-Fan]

Alright, Captain Kirk...

He only got a three-year deal didn't he?

Made mega-bux with the movies, TJ Hooker, Boston Public, and most of all Priceline:

William Shatner Net Worth | Celebrity Net Worth

 

[calsnowskier]

Great analogy, yep. Same build really, big but surprisingly agile/nimble.

I don't think he has the nihilistic addict streak though, he was a young guy who liked to eat and had that kind of body. Hopefully he's got some maturity now that he's a veteran.

As usual I trust Bochy and Sabean, also we gotta remember, it's not like we have much of a plan B for 3B. It's not like deciding if we should overpay a starter, there's plenty of choices there.

From our view, though, he has not shown this improvement in his maturity. He went to Camp Panda, then blew it off the following season. He came to camp in shape THIS year, but it was a walk year. OF COURSE he would come to camp in shape. That does not show maturity, that shows a desire to get paid.

We are all in agreement, though. Sabes and co know more than we do. They will make a MUCH more informed decision than any of us could ever hope to make.

 

[SF11704]

Hate to say it but when I look at Panda I see a Prince Fielder in the making. Fielder didn't have any history of injuries before this year. Always played 160-162 games. Always overweight but seemed to avoid an injury. This year he has a season ending spine injury 42 games into the season. I think Panda could be prone to this as well. Especially with the level of agility that he seems to have. At some point his weight is going to counter balance his agility and we'll be looking at a rather significant injury. I also don't think he'll control his eating habits by being a little more mature. I think it's a much deeper issue than just maturity.

 

[msgkings322]

Hate to say it but when I look at Panda I see a Prince Fielder in the making. Fielder didn't have any history of injuries before this year. Always played 160-162 games. Always overweight but seemed to avoid an injury. This year he has a season ending spine injury 42 games into the season. I think Panda could be prone to this as well. Especially with the level of agility that he seems to have. At some point his weight is going to counter balance his agility and we'll be looking at a rather significant injury. I also don't think he'll control his eating habits by being a little more mature. I think it's a much deeper issue than just maturity.

This is also plausible, yes.

He's my current favorite Giant, but if he has to go he has to go. I'll miss him but I get it.

 

[calsnowskier]

Hate to say it but when I look at Panda I see a Prince Fielder in the making. Fielder didn't have any history of injuries before this year. Always played 160-162 games. Always overweight but seemed to avoid an injury. This year he has a season ending spine injury 42 games into the season. I think Panda could be prone to this as well. Especially with the level of agility that he seems to have. At some point his weight is going to counter balance his agility and we'll be looking at a rather significant injury. I also don't think he'll control his eating habits by being a little more mature. I think it's a much deeper issue than just maturity.

Good points.

We saw what happened with Timmeh as his body aged. His motion is/was HUGELY dependent on his flexibility. Now, with just a slight downgrade in his flexibility, he is no longer a MLB pitcher.

Panda has the added stress of a large man. Not only is there the injury potential, but how long will he be able to play a passable 3B? Will he have to move to 1B? Aren't we penciling Posey at 1B?

I love Panda as a Giant as much as, if not more than the next guy. But a 5-year deal will kill this org. a 4-year deal is VERY dangerous.

 

[jeep99tj]

The Giants have made a qualifying offer to Panda, 1 year at 15.3 million.

 

[msgkings322]

The Giants have made a qualifying offer to Panda, 1 year at 15.3 million.

A formality only, obviously. Will be declined.

 

[calsnowskier]

The Giants have made a qualifying offer to Panda, 1 year at 15.3 million.

Expected move. No surprise and it means nothing. It would have been MUCH more telling had they NOT offered the QO.

 

[SFGRTB]

This is very interesting. The Giants may have been saving their bullets for this guy (sticking with cheaper guys like Carbonell); in the article it states that the Ray, Yankees, and Red Sox won't be able to competitively bid on him if he becomes eligible after June 15th, and the Cubs and Rangers won't if he's eligible before June 15th.

Obviously, the Dodgers are going to be major players. Maybe this is the Giants time to make a splash. He's more of a back-burner topic though.

 

[SFGRTB]

Wonder what kind of trade targets are out there?

The Rays could be active, the Cubs, all the NL West teams (tough to trade with). There are always teams looking for a SS and a catcher. Sanchez and EA could be out the door for some outfield depth.

 

[calsnowskier]

This is very interesting. The Giants may have been saving their bullets for this guy (sticking with cheaper guys like Carbonell); in the article it states that the Ray, Yankees, and Red Sox won't be able to competitively bid on him if he becomes eligible after June 15th, and the Cubs and Rangers won't if he's eligible before June 15th.

Obviously, the Dodgers are going to be major players. Maybe this is the Giants time to make a splash. He's more of a back-burner topic though.

I don't know much about this guy other than he is a SS.

Why dump big $$ on a SS when we have a passable + SS already, and rather large holes at both LF and 3B?

It doesn't pass the initial sniff test for me.

 

[calsnowskier]

Wonder what kind of trade targets are out there?

The Rays could be active, the Cubs, all the NL West teams (tough to trade with). There are always teams looking for a SS and a catcher. Sanchez and EA could be out the door for some outfield depth.

I wonder what kind of value either of them have right now. Sanchez has some pretty severe question marks surrounding his health 9will he ever play again?) and EA had leg issues last year (they may have been bogus issues, though, to give 40-man flexibility).

I am not sure we can get anyone better than a Perez-type player for them at this point.

 

[SFGRTB]

I don't know much about this guy other than he is a SS.

Why dump big $$ on a SS when we have a passable + SS already, and rather large holes at both LF and 3B?

It doesn't pass the initial sniff test for me.

Sounds like he needs time in the minors, he wouldn't be a contributor next year. Similar to Soler and Puig, he would probably spend a couple years in the minors.