2015 Rosterbation

[msgkings322]

I stand corrected on Zobrist, he's better than I had in my mind. Not entirely convinced the Rays aren't rebuilding but you can make that case too.

I stand by my basic premise: the FO is going to likely bring back the same team as 2014, just like they did in 2011 and 2013. This is not tanking, it's being judicious.

If I'm wrong and they do make a splash and get Zobrist and Shields, I will be 100% behind the moves because I trust this FO implicitly. If they want to stand pat, or if they want to make moves, I trust they know what they are doing.

We'll see.

 

[Mays-Fan]

I stand corrected on Zobrist, he's better than I had in my mind. Not entirely convinced the Rays aren't rebuilding but you can make that case too.

I stand by my basic premise: the FO is going to likely bring back the same team as 2014, just like they did in 2011 and 2013. This is not tanking, it's being judicious.

If I'm wrong and they do make a splash and get Zobrist and Shields, I will be 100% behind the moves because I trust this FO implicitly. If they want to stand pat, or if they want to make moves, I trust they know what they are doing.

We'll see.

Fair enough. Zobrist may be the best-kept secret of the last 20 years. And I don't disagree with your take that the FO does what you say - judiciously reward the winners by bringing them back. The fans presumably like that, and it keeps the revenue stream growing. Fans appreciate winning continuity.

Ultimately, a large part of any decision is based on things neither of us know - what are the revenues, and what is the salary budget? Only the FO knows those things.

 

[Mays-Fan]

That might push Hits to the bench, or give Cranium a lot of options to switch around in LF, 1B, and 3B: BB9, MVP, Ishi, Hits, Kobe, Z, Duffman, Shark, JCP....

Cranium loves him some options...

I wonder if Crick and Duffy would do it. Or add Okert or Strickland if needed.

If we could add BZ without having to include someone from the 25 (I'm excluding Duffy from the 25 for this purpose), and not crush the farm, that would be a HUGE boost to our 2015 chances.

Are we allowed to include cash beyond the salaries of the players we are trading? I'm thinking we can not.

 

[msgkings322]

Fair enough. Zobrist may be the best-kept secret of the last 20 years. And I don't disagree with your take that the FO does what you say - judiciously reward the winners by bringing them back. The fans presumably like that, and it keeps the revenue stream growing. Fans appreciate winning continuity.

Ultimately, a large part of any decision is based on things neither of us know - what are the revenues, and what is the salary budget? Only the FO knows those things.

Agreed.

I think it's a moving target for the FO too, or perhaps Bayesian is the correct term. They had a plan to try to actually upgrade by keeping Panda and getting Lester. When they didn't get either of those, they may have said 'ok we took a shot there, now let's just get Peavy and an 'almost Panda' and bring back the band'. I really don't think they intend to demote Lincecum, so Lester would have taken what is now Peavy's slot.

Could be wrong but as the clock ticks that's what it looks like to me. But shoot if they surprise me and sign Shields and trade Crick and 2-3 other prospects for Zobrist, I'm down with it...they know what they are doing.

 

[Mays-Fan]

Agreed.

I think it's a moving target for the FO too, or perhaps Bayesian is the correct term. They had a plan to try to actually upgrade by keeping Panda and getting Lester. When they didn't get either of those, they may have said 'ok we took a shot there, now let's just get Peavy and an 'almost Panda' and bring back the band'. I really don't think they intend to demote Lincecum, so Lester would have taken what is now Peavy's slot.

Could be wrong but as the clock ticks that's what it looks like to me. But shoot if they surprise me and sign Shields and trade Crick and 2-3 other prospects for Zobrist, I'm down with it...they know what they are doing.

Yeah, it's not like the FO hasn't made a fair effort to upgrade, we just lost out to the "greater fools" in these instances.

But, oh man, if we could land Shields AND Zobrist for some prospects - that would be phenomenal for 2015 and 2016, at least. And realistically, who thinks further out than that in this game?

 

[calsnowskier]

I am becoming more OK with Shields, as long as he does not cost too much money that they handcuff themselves moving forward (like the Timmeh deal).

While I would love to hold on to the #19, draft picks, past the top 10-ish, are very fudgeable, and even if they hit, it takes 3-4 years to get a realistic return. If we are able to get a #2 SP for 2 years out of that pick NOW, I guess that is OK...

That does not address the 40, 25 or 5 issues that signing him would create, though.

As always, if the PsTB sign him, I trust it was a good signing. If the PsTB do NOT sign him, I trust it was a good non-sign.

 

[Mays-Fan]

I am becoming more OK with Shields, as long as he does not cost too much money that they handcuff themselves moving forward (like the Timmeh deal).

While I would love to hold on to the #19, draft picks, past the top 10-ish, are very fudgeable, and even if they hit, it takes 3-4 years to get a realistic return. If we are able to get a #2 SP for 2 years out of that pick NOW, I guess that is OK...

That does not address the 40, 25 or 5 issues that signing him would create, though.

As always, if the PsTB sign him, I trust it was a good signing. If the PsTB do NOT sign him, I trust it was a good non-sign.

I'm speculating also that there is something in the makeup of Colby Rasmus that the FO doesn't like. That ALL the FO's don't like. Seems like someone would have snapped him up by now.

 

[calsnowskier]

I'm speculating also that there is something in the makeup of Colby Rasmus that the FO doesn't like. That ALL the FO's don't like. Seems like someone would have snapped him up by now.

Wasn't he the guy who basically got run out of town in StL under LaRussa?

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

If we trade Crick/Susac for Zobrist, give up 19th pick for Shields

What do we do about our farm system? Likely would put us out on Moncada.

I'd prefer the prospects given how thin are farm system is

 

[msgkings322]

If we trade Crick/Susac for Zobrist, give up 19th pick for Shields

What do we do about our farm system? Likely would put us out on Moncada.

I'd prefer the prospects given how thin are farm system is

A farm system is there just to help you 2-4 years down the road. If you have a window to keep winning rings, shouldn't you use those future assets (of uncertain quality) to help win today? Yes you eventually run out of ammo (unless you draft really well every year), but if you squeeze 2-3 more rings out of it, isn't that a good idea?

You bring up an interesting point...we've talked about the 'problem' of having 2 ML level backup catchers, but 1 of them seems to make Lincecum into a decent pitcher. Maybe we can afford to let Susac go since we will probably keep Lincecum in the rotation?

 

[Mays-Fan]

If we trade Crick/Susac for Zobrist, give up 19th pick for Shields

What do we do about our farm system? Likely would put us out on Moncada.

I'd prefer the prospects given how thin are farm system is

I like Zobrist, but I hate the idea of giving up Susac to get him.

Susac is key if we are to phase Buster out of the catching game. If I were Sabes, Susac would be off the table in a trade for Zobrist, or just about anybody.

 

[calsnowskier]

If we trade Crick/Susac for Zobrist, give up 19th pick for Shields

What do we do about our farm system? Likely would put us out on Moncada.

I'd prefer the prospects given how thin are farm system is

I would not be a fan of Crick/Susac 4 Z, no matter what else happens.

Z is good. I want Z. But he is not worth a solid MLB-ready starting catcher with 6 years of control AND a top, near-100 SP prospect.

I understand Mays loves him, and disagrees with me. That is fine...
















He has every right to be wrong.

 

[Mays-Fan]

Wasn't he the guy who basically got run out of town in StL under LaRussa?

Yeah there are some hints here that he might not fit in, as it were:

Colby Rasmus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In St Louis:

"On September 5, 2010, it was reported that Rasmus requested a trade from general manager John Mozeliak because of a shortage of playing time, and a strained relationship with manager Tony La Russa. Rasmus attempted to downplay the rumor and Mozeliak indicated he would not trade Rasmus."​

In Toronto:

"...it was widely speculated that Rasmus would not seek to re-sign with the Blue Jays, nor would Toronto be interested in retaining him."​

 

[msgkings322]

I would not be a fan of Crick/Susac 4 Z, no matter what else happens.

Z is good. I want Z. But he is not worth a solid MLB-ready starting catcher with 6 years of control AND a top, near-100 SP prospect.

I understand Mays loves him, and disagrees with me. That is fine...
















He has every right to be wrong.

Would you do Crick + Hacktor + 1 more pitching prospect for Zobrist?

 

[Mays-Fan]

I would not be a fan of Crick/Susac 4 Z, no matter what else happens.

Z is good. I want Z. But he is not worth a solid MLB-ready starting catcher with 6 years of control AND a top, near-100 SP prospect.

I understand Mays loves him, and disagrees with me. That is fine...
















He has every right to be wrong.

HAH! Pre-empted you! See my post ABOVE yours.

 

[Mays-Fan]

Would you do Crick + Hacktor + 1 more pitching prospect for Zobrist?

I would, but it would not be Beede. Just about anyone else - in my opinion we are fairly deep in B-grade pitching prospects.

 

[calsnowskier]

Would you do Crick + Hacktor + 1 more pitching prospect for Zobrist?

Who is the other player?

Blach? No.

Blackburn? No.

I may be OK with Crick and Hactor and nothing else or a basic non-prospect. Mainly because they would be assuming quite a bit of risk with Hactor.

 

[calsnowskier]

I would, but it would not be Beede. Just about anyone else - in my opinion we are fairly deep in B-grade pitching prospects.

Technically, Beede can't be traded until after the '15 draft. He could be included as a PTBNL, but that causes some pretty serious side issues (SD traded Turner to TB in the Myers trade, and now he is in total limbo until the draft)

 

[msgkings322]

Who is the other player?

Blach? No.

Blackburn? No.

I may be OK with Crick and Hactor and nothing else or a basic non-prospect. Mainly because they would be assuming quite a bit of risk with Hactor.

C'mon, man, 'may be'? You know other teams have players to offer TB too, right?

 

[MarcoPolo]

I stand corrected on Zobrist, he's better than I had in my mind. Not entirely convinced the Rays aren't rebuilding but you can make that case too.

I stand by my basic premise: the FO is going to likely bring back the same team as 2014, just like they did in 2011 and 2013. This is not tanking, it's being judicious.

If I'm wrong and they do make a splash and get Zobrist and Shields, I will be 100% behind the moves because I trust this FO implicitly. If they want to stand pat, or if they want to make moves, I trust they know what they are doing.

We'll see.

The Giants are NOT likely to bring back the same team for 2015, as two key players signed elsewhere : Panda and Morse. Panda is obvious, but without Morse's HUGE first two months with us we wouldn't have made the post-season. His pinch-hit home run that tied the game in the NLCS wasn't chopped liver either.