2015 Rosterbation

[calsnowskier]

Heavy rumors right now that the Giants will trade for Zobrist. No mention of specific prospects heading over, or even of a time frame for when the deal would go down.

AL East Notes: Clevenger,

In other news today, AJ signed with the Braves and Uggla signed a minor league deal with the Nats.

 

[msgkings322]

My father just emailed me this:

according to mlb insider, giants 3-1 to sign shields, red sox 5-1, rangers 7-1


Take that for whatever it's worth...

 

[Montalban]

My father just emailed me this:

according to mlb insider, giants 3-1 to sign shields, red sox 5-1, rangers 7-1


Take that for whatever it's worth...

which current starter gets dumped if shields get signed? The Giants already have 5 starters I don't think they'll sign a 6th

 

[msgkings322]

which current starter gets dumped if shields get signed? The Giants already have 5 starters I don't think they'll sign a 6th

I tend to agree, but things happen...maybe if they sign Shields they trade Hudson, or god forbid put Tim in the pen? Or trade him for a beef and cheese burrito to Seattle and eat most of his salary?

But once they signed Peavy I figured that was it for pitching.

I'm more amused by these exact odds....how does one make one team 3-1 to sign a contract and another 5-1? And who's making that call?

 

[calsnowskier]

I tend to agree, but things happen...maybe if they sign Shields they trade Hudson, or god forbid put Tim in the pen? Or trade him for a beef and cheese burrito to Seattle and eat most of his salary?

But once they signed Peavy I figured that was it for pitching.

I'm more amused by these exact odds....how does one make one team 3-1 to sign a contract and another 5-1? And who's making that call?

Well, you know the source...

 

[calsnowskier]

Gutierrez signed a minor league deal and will be invited to st.

Safe signing, but I got the sense that rags and Bochy were done with him and his slown ass pace. Kruk was CLEARLY not a fan

 

[Montalban]

I tend to agree, but things happen...maybe if they sign Shields they trade Hudson, or god forbid put Tim in the pen? Or trade him for a beef and cheese burrito to Seattle and eat most of his salary?

But once they signed Peavy I figured that was it for pitching.

I'm more amused by these exact odds....how does one make one team 3-1 to sign a contract and another 5-1? And who's making that call?

it is kinda strange.

 

[tzill]

I tend to agree, but things happen...maybe if they sign Shields they trade Hudson, or god forbid put Tim in the pen? Or trade him for a beef and cheese burrito to Seattle and eat most of his salary?

But once they signed Peavy I figured that was it for pitching.

I'm more amused by these exact odds....how does one make one team 3-1 to sign a contract and another 5-1? And who's making that call?

Odd in Vegas are set by public perception. They set odds to attract even money on both sides of the proposition. Thus, roughly 1/3 of the betting population thinks Shields will sign with the giants.

 

[tzill]

Heavy rumors right now that the Giants will trade for Zobrist. No mention of specific prospects heading over, or even of a time frame for when the deal would go down.

AL East Notes: Clevenger,

In other news today, AJ signed with the Braves and Uggla signed a minor league deal with the Nats.

That might push Hits to the bench, or give Cranium a lot of options to switch around in LF, 1B, and 3B: BB9, MVP, Ishi, Hits, Kobe, Z, Duffman, Shark, JCP....

Cranium loves him some options...

 

[tzill]

Gutierrez signed a minor league deal and will be invited to st.

Safe signing, but I got the sense that rags and Bochy were done with him and his slown ass pace. Kruk was CLEARLY not a fan

Agreed, but when ON, his a very good middle reliever.

 

[Stokes1931]

Padres trade Seth Smith to Mariners - SFGate

 

[Stokes1931]

Reds acquire outfielder Byrd in deal with Phils | MLB.com

 

[Montalban]

I think we have the team right now that we will go into the season with.

 

[Mays-Fan]

The clock is ticking...I too hope we at least get a LF. But I won't be surprised if we don't. Here's the Giants Way: win a championship, bring back basically the same team, wait 1 year, repeat. See ya on Market Street November 2016!

http://m.mlb.com/news/article/10524...-zobrist-decision-not-easy-for-tampa-bay-rays

I can see us getting Zobrist as well, as long as we didn't have to give up too much. Wishful thinking, I'm sure. We would have to get creative with our trade bait. I'm thinking our list could include either Beede or Crick (but not both), any other minor-league starter, any reliever (including those on the 40 but not Casilla), Panik, EA, Duffy, any minor league non-pitcher. Gotta give to get.

Happy New Year, all!

 

[calsnowskier]

Zobrist decision not an easy one for Rays | MLB.com

I can see us getting Zobrist as well, as long as we didn't have to give up too much. Wishful thinking, I'm sure. We would have to get creative with our trade bait. I'm thinking our list could include either Beede or Crick (but not both), any other minor-league starter, any reliever (including those on the 40 but not Casilla), Panik, EA, Duffy, any minor league non-pitcher. Gotta give to get.

Happy New Year, all!

I do not understand what you are saying. Are you saying we should give Crick OR Blach OR JA OR Panik OR Hall? Or are you saying a package that includes one player from each of your pools?

I would not do Panik for Z, one-up. Z is flexible, but Panik is Robby Thompson in 1987. Besides, that does not fill a hole, it just replaces a piece.

If you believe Z is the difference between making the post season in '15 and not making the post season in '15, than OK. Personally, I do not see him being that much of a difference maker.

 

[Mays-Fan]

I do not understand what you are saying. Are you saying we should give Crick OR Blach OR JA OR Panik OR Hall? Or are you saying a package that includes one player from each of your pools?

I would not do Panik for Z, one-up. Z is flexible, but Panik is Robby Thompson in 1987. Besides, that does not fill a hole, it just replaces a piece.

If you believe Z is the difference between making the post season in '15 and not making the post season in '15, than OK. Personally, I do not see him being that much of a difference maker.

I was merely trying to list the players I felt were tradeable in order to get what I feel would be a key player for a 2015 run. Obviously I value Z more than you do. I think he can fill either of our two weakest positions, LF and 2B. So if Panik truly emerges, Z plays LF. If a LF emerges, Z can play 2B. He can even play any other infield position. Basically Z can play instead of our weakest player or where someone inevitably gets injured. And that includes OF if Oxy gets injured again.

 

[msgkings322]

I was merely trying to list the players I felt were tradeable in order to get what I feel would be a key player for a 2015 run. Obviously I value Z more than you do. I think he can fill either of our two weakest positions, LF and 2B. So if Panik truly emerges, Z plays LF. If a LF emerges, Z can play 2B. He can even play any other infield position. Basically Z can play instead of our weakest player or where someone inevitably gets injured. And that includes OF if Oxy gets injured again.

If you trade a key starter (Affeldt, Romo, Panik...) for him you don't improve the team, you go sideways (-1, +1). Yes he's 'flexible', but that's why you deal prospects if you are trying to win now.

So far I'm not at all surprised by what the FO has been doing, and I'm fine with it. Again, the Giants Way: win ring, bring back same team, play a year, then win another ring the next year and repeat.

 

[Mays-Fan]

If you trade a key starter (Affeldt, Romo, Panik...) for him you don't improve the team, you go sideways (-1, +1). Yes he's 'flexible', but that's why you deal prospects if you are trying to win now.

So far I'm not at all surprised by what the FO has been doing, and I'm fine with it. Again, the Giants Way: win ring, bring back same team, play a year, then win another ring the next year and repeat.

You keep bringing up the basic theme that the FO tries to win only every OTHER year. While the results have happily worked out that way, there is nothing in the FO strategy that would support such a notion. Certainly 2011 would have worked out quite differently had we not lost Buster (and the FO still tried to win by trading Wheeler for Beltran - clearly NOT the strategy of a tanking team). And in 2013 we were well in the division lead at 23-15 when Pagan went down. So your assessment of the FO has no validity whatsoever.

While I see Zobrist as a clear improvement over the still largely unproven Panik, esp for 2015, perhaps including Panik in a trade package would not be the most optimal, I give you that. But if TB was looking for a setup guy, and wanted Affeldt, I don't see that as a "-1, +1" for us. Sure, Affeldt has been part of all the WSC's, but we have a surplus of relievers, including some very good prospects. Romo can't be traded until midseason - Marco showed that a few weeks back. And Casilla shouldn't be traded.

Gotta give to get. And getting a player of Zobrist's caliber would require a little pain on our part.

 

[msgkings322]

You keep bringing up the basic theme that the FO tries to win only every OTHER year. While the results have happily worked out that way, there is nothing in the FO strategy that would support such a notion. Certainly 2011 would have worked out quite differently had we not lost Buster (and the FO still tried to win by trading Wheeler for Beltran - clearly NOT the strategy of a tanking team). And in 2013 we were well in the division lead at 23-15 when Pagan went down. So your assessment of the FO has no validity whatsoever.

While I see Zobrist as a clear improvement over the still largely unproven Panik, esp for 2015, perhaps including Panik in a trade package would not be the most optimal, I give you that. But if TB was looking for a setup guy, and wanted Affeldt, I don't see that as a "-1, +1" for us. Sure, Affeldt has been part of all the WSC's, but we have a surplus of relievers, including some very good prospects. Romo can't be traded until midseason - Marco showed that a few weeks back. And Casilla shouldn't be traded.

Gotta give to get. And getting a player of Zobrist's caliber would require a little pain on our part.

And YOU keep misunderstanding my position, or maybe ascribing one to me I don't share. I'm not saying they don't TRY to win. In fact, the logic is fairly sound: you just won a ring, so bring back the same team, clearly they have what it takes. In 2011 and 2013 they of course were trying to win, but they brought back basically the same team each time. Beltran happened much later, when they were still in the mix even after Posey went down. I'm not suggesting 'tanking', just that they seem to be doing what they did in 2011 and 2013....bringing back basically the same team that just won a ring. I fully expect them to make similar deadline deals if they are in the mix in 2015. Note they didn't do much at the deadline in 2014, because they DON'T LIKE DOING DEALS JUST TO DO THEM. Peavy was it...and it was a great call.

As far as my take on the FO having 'no validity', slow your roll there, Champ. So far they are doing the things I"VE been talking about, not the ones you have been.

Also, you are overvaluing Zobrist. And misreading what TB is up to they are shedding salary, they want prospects not expensive middle relievers like Affeldt.

 

[Mays-Fan]

Also, you are overvaluing Zobrist.

Uhhh, no. Check out his WAR values the last 6 years:

Ben Zobrist Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com

BZ's WAR, last six years:

2009: 8.6
2010: 4.6
2011: 8.7
2012: 5.7
2013: 4.8
2014: 5.0​

Check this out: Ben Zobrist's Hall of Fame case: The value of a peak - Beyond the Box Score

"2009 saw Zobrist take his game to the next level, as he posted 8.5 WAR (the most in the American League). He regressed a bit in 2010, to 3.7 WAR, but topped five in each of the next four seasons. Thus, his 35.4 WAR over the past six years ranks second among position players.

I'll say that again, in case you didn't comprehend it. Since the start of the 2009 campaign, Ben Zobrist has given his team more value than:​

Robinson Cano
Evan Longoria
Andrew McCutchen
Adrian Beltre
Joey Votto
Every other player except Miguel Cabrera (and Clayton Kershaw, but he's a pitcher, so who cares)"​

Add to that he plays multiple positions where we are weak, and plays them well defensively. And from the original MLB article:

"He's also a clubhouse guy. His teammates invariably use the same words to describe him: quiet, steady, solid. He's the leader in the best way we define leader. He leads with his actions and his production and his work ethic more than his words. He also believes in the notion that players are role models and that they have an obligation to be a good citizen of their community."​

And he's a switch-hitter. Clearly, you are UNDER-valuing BZ.

And misreading what TB is up to they are shedding salary, they want prospects not expensive middle relievers like Affeldt.

Not necessarily, according to the writer of the article I originally quoted which you did not read:

Zobrist decision not an easy one for Rays | MLB.com

"From the moment Matt Silverman took over for Andrew Friedman as Rays president of baseball operations, he...wanted to keep the big league team competitive. That he appears to have done. It's hard to argue that he has improved the lineup, but with that rotation and that bullpen, the Rays have a chance to hang in an American League East race that appears to have no consensus favorite."​

The Rays do not believe this is the beginning of a rebuilding era. Again, as long as they have that pitching staff, they've got a chance to compete.
​

Like I originally said, if we want to trade for Z, we are going to have to get creative. And we gotta give to get.