2015 Rosterbation

[SFGRTB]

Angel Villalona outrighted to minors to clear 40-man spot.

 

[MarcoPolo]

The Romo deal became official today.

I guess the Arb guys do not count towards the 40-man until they actually sign, because this puts us at 41 (not counting Peavey, which still, technically, is not official)

Players were either offered a contract (tendered) or released (non-tendered) back on Dec 2nd. If they were on the 40-man during the season and they didn't become a FA or haven't been outrighted or released (or non-tendered), then they are still on the 40-man.

 

[calsnowskier]

Angel Villalona outrighted to minors to clear 40-man spot.

W...O...W...


I guess it had to happen eventually. Still surprised to see it actually happen.

 

[calsnowskier]

Players were either offered a contract (tendered) or released (non-tendered) back on Dec 2nd. If they were on the 40-man during the season and they didn't become a FA or haven't been outrighted or released (or non-tendered), then they are still on the 40-man.

That's what I thought, thus my confusion when the Romo news came out without the corresponding AnVil announcement.

Moot point now that AnVil is off the 40.

 

[Montalban]

You guys would have hated the topic this morning on KNBR with Duane Kuiper. It was "Why don't free agents want to come to San Francisco?" They asked the same questions I did (great park, great fans, great place to live, winning organization) and Kuiper is as mystified as me. There was none of this nonsense about "The Giants haven't asked any FAs to come". Guess I was right after all.

 

[calsnowskier]

You guys would have hated the topic this morning on KNBR with Duane Kuiper. It was "Why don't free agents want to come to San Francisco?" They asked the same questions I did (great park, great fans, great place to live, winning organization) and Kuiper is as mystified as me. There was none of this nonsense about "The Giants haven't asked any FAs to come". Guess I was right after all.

And they came to the same conclusions we brought up...

Sandoval wanted a different park and Lester was going yo the Cubs no matter what. They also said just because we think it is best park in a great city does nit mean everyone does.

Did you not hear that, or did you just conveniently fail to mention those points?

 

[Montalban]

And they came to the same conclusions we brought up...

Sandoval wanted a different park and Lester was going yo the Cubs no matter what. They also said just because we think it is best park in a great city does nit mean everyone does.

Did you not hear that, or did you just conveniently fail to mention those points?

No, I never disputed the Sandoval point. What got me was the nonsense that the Giants had no interest in any other free agents. There was nothing mentioned about Lester, so I'm not sure where you got that. Perhaps you meant Shields since they did talk about him, and he did mention the place not being a hitter's park.

The main dispute was you (and others) saying the Giants did not pursue any free agents and I believe Kuiper debunked that quite nicely simply by not even considering such an absurd notion. But the question remained, "Why don't free agents sign here?"

The one disagreement I did have with Kuiper was his questioning why FAs don't stay here. In my opinion, once players find out how good it is here they tend to stay; Sandoval being the exception.

 

[tzill]

No, I never disputed the Sandoval point. What got me was the nonsense that the Giants had no interest in any other free agents. There was nothing mentioned about Lester, so I'm not sure where you got that. Perhaps you meant Shields since they did talk about him, and he did mention the place not being a hitter's park.

The main dispute was you (and others) saying the Giants did not pursue any free agents and I believe Kuiper debunked that quite nicely simply by not even considering such an absurd notion. But the question remained, "Why don't free agents sign here?"

The one disagreement I did have with Kuiper was his questioning why FAs don't stay here. In my opinion, once players find out how good it is here they tend to stay; Sandoval being the exception.

Again I ask -- why is this turd allowed to post on our board? He was banned and yet is allowed to post here?

 

[msgkings322]

No, I never disputed the Sandoval point. What got me was the nonsense that the Giants had no interest in any other free agents. There was nothing mentioned about Lester, so I'm not sure where you got that. Perhaps you meant Shields since they did talk about him, and he did mention the place not being a hitter's park.

The main dispute was you (and others) saying the Giants did not pursue any free agents and I believe Kuiper debunked that quite nicely simply by not even considering such an absurd notion. But the question remained, "Why don't free agents sign here?"

The one disagreement I did have with Kuiper was his questioning why FAs don't stay here. In my opinion, once players find out how good it is here they tend to stay; Sandoval being the exception.

Name another FA the Giants made an offer to? You can't, because they haven't. That's not what they do.
They go after mid-range or dumpster dive FAs and those guys do sign here. They haven't been in on any of the 'names' lately except Sandoval and Lester. I'm sure you'd love to prove me wrong on this one MontNolan so, please, let's hear it.

 

[Montalban]

Name another FA the Giants made an offer to? You can't, because they haven't. That's not what they do.
They go after mid-range or dumpster dive FAs and those guys do sign here. They haven't been in on any of the 'names' lately except Sandoval and Lester. I'm sure you'd love to prove me wrong on this one MontNolan so, please, let's hear it.

I still think that it is crazy to think that the Giants had no interest in any big free agents other than the ones mentioned here in this thread. I think they would be doing themselves and the fans a disservice if they did that. I bet they gauge the interest of every FA that might help the team, they just don't highly publicize it for numerous reasons.

Its funny how we can listen to the same words and hear something completely different. I heard Kuiper say one thing and it seems Cal heard him say another this morning on KNBR. But I think, when asked by the host this morning why FAs don't sign here, that Kuiper would have replied "well, they've only gone after two, Lester and Sandoval in the last 6 years" if that was true. The fact that he didn't, tells me it isn't. I gotta think that he knows more about what goes on with the Giants than we do here..

 

[msgkings322]

I still think that it is crazy to think that the Giants had no interest in any big free agents other than the ones mentioned here in this thread. I think they would be doing themselves and the fans a disservice if they did that. I bet they gauge the interest of every FA that might help the team, they just don't highly publicize it for numerous reasons.

Its funny how we can listen to the same words and hear something completely different. I heard Kuiper say one thing and it seems Cal heard him say another this morning on KNBR. But I think, when asked by the host this morning why FAs don't sign here, that Kuiper would have replied "well, they've only gone after two, Lester and Sandoval in the last 6 years" if that was true. The fact that he didn't, tells me it isn't. I gotta think that he knows more about what goes on with the Giants than we do here..

Name. One. Single. Damn. Person.

Every year sports media outlets obsess over the 'hot stove', who's going where? who's after who? Those people aren't always correct of course but the fact that no one can name a single other name is, well, the fact. Kuiper doesn't strike me as a guy who obsesses about this stuff as much as we do here. He's in many ways as uninformed as you.

So demolish me, MontNolan...name just ONE. Use the internet if you have to. I'll wait....

 

[Montalban]

Name. One. Single. Damn. Person.

Every year sports media outlets obsess over the 'hot stove', who's going where? who's after who? Those people aren't always correct of course but the fact that no one can name a single other name is, well, the fact. Kuiper doesn't strike me as a guy who obsesses about this stuff as much as we do here. He's in many ways as uninformed as you.

So demolish me, MontNolan...name just ONE. Use the internet if you have to. I'll wait....

I really don't know of any specifics because I don't follow it that closely but the fact remains that the top FAs don't sign here and if we go on the premise that the Giants want to win and that excellent players help you do that, then wouldn't it seem odd that they wouldn't at least gauge the interst of said FAs?

Even if I were to agree with you that Lester and Sandoval are the only FAs they've been interested in in the past 7 years or so, what would you say are the reasons why the Giants don't want the big name FAs? Let's try that question?

 

[Stokes1931]

I really don't know of any specifics because I don't follow it that closely but the fact remains that the top FAs don't sign here and if we go on the premise that the Giants want to win and that excellent players help you do that, then wouldn't it seem odd that they wouldn't at least gauge the interst of said FAs?

Even if I were to agree with you that Lester and Sandoval are the only FAs they've been interested in in the past 7 years or so, what would you say are the reasons why the Giants don't want the big name FAs? Let's try that question?

One of the big FA's in recent times was Beltran. They got him from the Mutts, trading away Wheeler (at the time controversial). The Giants weren't hitting, and Beltran is a hitter.

He came, got injured, hit decently after the pressure was off. There was talk, low level stuff, about the Giants re-signing Beltran, but he seemed to want no part in it. Nothing was stated, only inferred IIRC. The consensus around here, I think, was that Beltran wanted a more hitter friendly yard. Some, I think were disappointed in not re-signing Beltran.

So there may be something to the ballpark that is not conducive to big hitters signing here. (Though Pence seems to like it.) I am unsure why pitchers would not want to pitch in a fabulous yard, in front of great fans, with above average defense, for a good manager and pitching coach, for a multiple World Series winning team.

If there is a conspiracy theory, I am not seeing it. As to the Giants courting high priced talent (a Scherzer, or a Josh Hamilton, or the like), as has been mentioned, that has really not been their MO since the signing of BLB back in the early 1990's.

So you are implying, it seems to me, that the "fact" that top FA's are not signing here is a sign of weakness or dysfunction in the Giants' front office. Since you admit that you don't know the specifics, and do not follow this all that closely, I'd suggest you cut the 3 WS in 5 years front office some slack. Oh, and I am no Sabey Sabes apologist, as some of the moves and non-moves have bugged me for years. But you cannot possibly argue with success. Dude, 3 WS in 5 years? That is not easy! And while we'd prefer EVERY year instead of every OTHER year, 3 in 5 is just fine with me.

Your constant inferences without specific facts, your insistence on being right, is beginning to wear thin, even with the patient ones among us. Just chill. Let it go.

 

[Montalban]

One of the big FA's in recent times was Beltran. They got him from the Mutts, trading away Wheeler (at the time controversial). The Giants weren't hitting, and Beltran is a hitter.

He came, got injured, hit decently after the pressure was off. There was talk, low level stuff, about the Giants re-signing Beltran, but he seemed to want no part in it. Nothing was stated, only inferred IIRC. The consensus around here, I think, was that Beltran wanted a more hitter friendly yard. Some, I think were disappointed in not re-signing Beltran.

So there may be something to the ballpark that is not conducive to big hitters signing here. (Though Pence seems to like it.) I am unsure why pitchers would not want to pitch in a fabulous yard, in front of great fans, with above average defense, for a good manager and pitching coach, for a multiple World Series winning team.

If there is a conspiracy theory, I am not seeing it. As to the Giants courting high priced talent (a Scherzer, or a Josh Hamilton, or the like), as has been mentioned, that has really not been their MO since the signing of BLB back in the early 1990's.

So you are implying, it seems to me, that the "fact" that top FA's are not signing here is a sign of weakness or dysfunction in the Giants' front office. Since you admit that you don't know the specifics, and do not follow this all that closely, I'd suggest you cut the 3 WS in 5 years front office some slack. Oh, and I am no Sabey Sabes apologist, as some of the moves and non-moves have bugged me for years. But you cannot possibly argue with success. Dude, 3 WS in 5 years? That is not easy! And while we'd prefer EVERY year instead of every OTHER year, 3 in 5 is just fine with me.

Your constant inferences without specific facts, your insistence on being right, is beginning to wear thin, even with the patient ones among us. Just chill. Let it go.

Fair enough.

 

[calsnowskier]

"Having interest in" and "having serious interest in" are two totally different things.

I am sure that the Giants talked to Hamilton's people. Does that mean that he spurned the Giants?

I am sure that the Giants talked to Cano's people. Does that mean that he spurned the Giants?

I am sure that the Giants talked to Pujol's people. Does that mean that he spurned the Giants?

Having interesting in a player and finding that the sides do not match is not the same as saying that the players don't want to come here. Heck, even if the Giants actively pursue a player, and he goes elsewhere does not mean that he does not want to come here. Sandoval is the ONLY player who actively "spurned" the Giants. One does not a trend make.

Let me do some of your work for you, since you prefer to live in vagaries instead of specifics...

Beltran - He "spurned" the Giants, but mainly because he preferred to "play the game" by waiting out the market, and the Giants wanted to get ahead of the market. He left more due to a timing issue than anything else.

Aramis Ramirez - Not a FA, but he did not want to be traded to a "big park", so he vetoed a trade to the Giants.

As for not mentioning Lester in the interview this morning, you have to fix your hearing aide. They specifically said (paraphrasing) "He was going to the Cubs no matter what the Giants did". That is not a negative about the Giants, which is how you CHOOSE to view it. It was a guy who wanted to go to a specific place that happened to not be the Giants.

 

[msgkings322]

I really don't know of any specifics because I don't follow it that closely but the fact remains that the top FAs don't sign here and if we go on the premise that the Giants want to win and that excellent players help you do that, then wouldn't it seem odd that they wouldn't at least gauge the interst of said FAs?

Even if I were to agree with you that Lester and Sandoval are the only FAs they've been interested in in the past 7 years or so, what would you say are the reasons why the Giants don't want the big name FAs? Let's try that question?

Yeah good point. If only they overpaid more big name FAs they might start winning around here.

Put it this way, the Giants FO's methods are to draft excellent players and sign mid-level guys not overpay older 'name' FAs. It's working just fine.

 

[msgkings322]

One of the big FA's in recent times was Beltran. They got him from the Mutts, trading away Wheeler (at the time controversial). The Giants weren't hitting, and Beltran is a hitter.

He came, got injured, hit decently after the pressure was off. There was talk, low level stuff, about the Giants re-signing Beltran, but he seemed to want no part in it. Nothing was stated, only inferred IIRC. The consensus around here, I think, was that Beltran wanted a more hitter friendly yard. Some, I think were disappointed in not re-signing Beltran.

So there may be something to the ballpark that is not conducive to big hitters signing here. (Though Pence seems to like it.) I am unsure why pitchers would not want to pitch in a fabulous yard, in front of great fans, with above average defense, for a good manager and pitching coach, for a multiple World Series winning team.

If there is a conspiracy theory, I am not seeing it. As to the Giants courting high priced talent (a Scherzer, or a Josh Hamilton, or the like), as has been mentioned, that has really not been their MO since the signing of BLB back in the early 1990's.

So you are implying, it seems to me, that the "fact" that top FA's are not signing here is a sign of weakness or dysfunction in the Giants' front office. Since you admit that you don't know the specifics, and do not follow this all that closely, I'd suggest you cut the 3 WS in 5 years front office some slack. Oh, and I am no Sabey Sabes apologist, as some of the moves and non-moves have bugged me for years. But you cannot possibly argue with success. Dude, 3 WS in 5 years? That is not easy! And while we'd prefer EVERY year instead of every OTHER year, 3 in 5 is just fine with me.

Your constant inferences without specific facts, your insistence on being right, is beginning to wear thin, even with the patient ones among us. Just chill. Let it go.

Well said. Basically Montalban (and the morning show chatter he heard) is asking the wrong question. It's not 'why don't big FAs want to sign here' because that's not in play. A fair question would be 'why don't the Giants PURSUE more big name FAs'? And the answer to that is, obviously, because they have found a better way to run a team. Especially one with some financial restraints (as opposed to teams without those like either LA team, NYY, Boston, etc)

 

[Mays-Fan]

Well said. Basically Montalban (and the morning show chatter he heard) is asking the wrong question. It's not 'why don't big FAs want to sign here' because that's not in play. A fair question would be 'why don't the Giants PURSUE more big name FAs'? And the answer to that is, obviously, because they have found a better way to run a team. Especially one with some financial restraints (as opposed to teams without those like either LA team, NYY, Boston, etc)

Certainly pitchers should like this park. On the hitter's side, the Pence example is perfect - RHH power hitter, with opposite field gap power. Or LHH line drive hitters. Pagan when healthy hits well in ATT. Morse hit well at ATT. Blanco had a .723 OPS at home this year.

The only hitters who wouldn't like ATT are dead-pull, LHH power hitters not named Barry Bonds.

 

[Montalban]

Well said. Basically Montalban (and the morning show chatter he heard) is asking the wrong question. It's not 'why don't big FAs want to sign here' because that's not in play. A fair question would be 'why don't the Giants PURSUE more big name FAs'? And the answer to that is, obviously, because they have found a better way to run a team. Especially one with some financial restraints (as opposed to teams without those like either LA team, NYY, Boston, etc)

3 of the last 5 makes it pretty tough to argue with them.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Can we just stop ???

Just ignore any post about it from here on out. Montie is just going to continue posting opinion if you don't. And if it bothers you, just put him on ignore.