2015 Rosterbation

[Mays-Fan]

The Headly deal is 4/52.



You gotta believe that the PsTB just didn't like him if the Spanks were able to get him on that deal.

Yeah that is both surprising and disappointing.

In Sabes we trust.

 

[msgkings322]

Yeah that is both surprising and disappointing.

In Sabes we trust.

If we truly do, we're going to have to be patient with 2015. Even-numbered years is a real thing.

 

[calsnowskier]

And before someone chimes in about the Giants continue to be spurned...

Remember that the Giants, just about a week or so ago, stated publically that they were not as into Headly as the reports had stated.

While that MAY have been some kind of "poker play" in order to lower their offer, it would have been a HORRIBLE bluff that would have done nothing but piss Headly and his team off.

I believe that the Giants were simply not interested (for whatever reason).

 

[msgkings322]

And before someone chimes in about the Giants continue to be spurned...

Remember that the Giants, just about a week or so ago, stated publically that they were not as into Headly as the reports had stated.

While that MAY have been some kind of "poker play" in order to lower their offer, it would have been a HORRIBLE bluff that would have done nothing but piss Headly and his team off.

I believe that the Giants were simply not interested (for whatever reason).

I agree, and the reason is becoming more and more clear as the offseason continues on.

 

[SF11704]

For me personally .... I don't think the Giants are overly concerned with the money as much as they are with the length of contract. I just feel they look at these options as 2 year, 4 year and 6 year pieces of the puzzle. Do they look at these players as place holders versus permanent solutions? I just feel this really complicates the process to a large degree. IMHO I'd have a real difficult time trying to match Lester's contract (even though they did). 6 Years for a pitcher is one hell of a gamble. He would have to be a central part of the solution. Stanton is another 'head scratcher' for me. A good player that will be owed 100M from his 35-38 birthdays. Almost impossible to trade I would guess. I think Headly may be worth 4/52M but what if you only really wanted to go 2 years? I personally didn't see him as our starting 3B in 2017 or 2018? All these free agents seem to want long term contracts and some teams seem much more open to them. In 2008 I would have been thrilled to sign Timmy up for the next 6-7-8 years ..... for almost anything he wanted ... really glad that didn't work out.

 

[calsnowskier]

For me personally .... I don't think the Giants are overly concerned with the money as much as they are with the length of contract. I just feel they look at these options as 2 year, 4 year and 6 year pieces of the puzzle. Do they look at these players as place holders versus permanent solutions? I just feel this really complicates the process to a large degree. IMHO I'd have a real difficult time trying to match Lester's contract (even though they did). 6 Years for a pitcher is one hell of a gamble. He would have to be a central part of the solution. Stanton is another 'head scratcher' for me. A good player that will be owed 100M from his 35-38 birthdays. Almost impossible to trade I would guess. I think Headly may be worth 4/52M but what if you only really wanted to go 2 years? I personally didn't see him as our starting 3B in 2017 or 2018? All these free agents seem to want long term contracts and some teams seem much more open to them. In 2008 I would have been thrilled to sign Timmy up for the next 6-7-8 years ..... for almost anything he wanted ... really glad that didn't work out.

He s still made almost the same amount of money with his series of 2-year deals. If they had signed him to an 8-year pact in '08, that would have ended in '16. As it is, his latest 2-year pact is expiring in '15. Not a whole heck of a lot of savings there.

Aside from my picking of nits regarding your example, I agree with you 100%. There is not a single contract that has been signed this off season (MAYBE save for the Headly deal) that I am wishing the Giants did instead. Maybe these teams will be handcuffing themselves in '16 and '17 and beyond where the Giants can then step in and get some better deals to be able to contend for a longer window.

Or maybe the owners are just taking a dip in their piles of gold coins.

 

[calsnowskier]

Lowrie off the table.

Astros for 3/20???

Astros were able to offer him SS, though, which we are unable to do.

 

[MarcoPolo]

I would assume, as would any good business, that the Giants reach out to EVERY big free agent to gauge their interest. They'd have to be fools not to and Sabean is no fool.

As for your stats above did the Giants not have the best park, one of the best areas in the country to live in, the best manager in baseball and a sell out crowd every day during those times? The only thing missing was the WS titles.

Granted the 3 WS titles are huge but if we agree that winning is huge, as you certainly do because you reference the Giants poor records above as being the reason they couldn't attract top FAs, then that only furthers the mystery as to why we can't sign any big names after not one, but 3 WS titles in 5 years. You can see that the arguments against what I'm saying only bring you back to my way of thinking, can you not?

I was responding to this post of yours :

Well, every big name free agent they've gone after since Barry Zito and on that one the got hoodwinked.

Doesn't it seem odd to you when players will not come to the most successful team of this century, with the best manager, the best park in baseball, a sell out crowd to play in front of every day and who is willing to pay as much as anyone for these players? C'mon now.

Zito gives it a time-frame (after the 2006, or maybe 2007, season). The Giants were not the 'most successful team of this century' until this year. So that's a non-arg for players not signing with them 2006-2014. The best manager? Well, there was no indication 2006-2009 that was the case. He was definitely the best manager of the YEAR in 2010. I would say that before 2012 nobody would have called Bochy 'the best' overall. So that's a non-arg 2006-2012. Sell-out crowds? Not in the 2007-2010 period, so that arg is only valid after 2010. IIRC the Giants didn't announce their 'XXX string of sold-out games' until well into the latter half of the 2011 or maybe even the 2012 season, so I wouldn't call that a draw until (maybe) 2012. I mean, what idiot of a team would start announcing 'hey, we've sold out 10 straight games'? You wait until the number is pretty darn high before blowing your own horn. Finally, 'the best park in baseball'. Well, that's relative and it really depends on a number of criteria. I doubt you would get cubs or red sox fans to agree with you. Nor Padres or Pirates fans. Nor *any* NY fan. I'm not going to go thru all the parks.


To answer your most recent question in a clear manner you can't possibly misconstrue :

As for your stats above did the Giants not have the best park, one of the best areas in the country to live in, the best manager in baseball and a sell out crowd every day during those times?

No, yes (but that's my personal opinion, not everyone will agree), no, no. Not during the signing periods 2006-2010 (or rather, some were true AFTER the 2010 season, but only in hindsight). So the 'everybody after Zito' argument is just plain bullshit. Anybody NOT signing with the team *starting this year* might be 'spurning' the team, but I think it's probably more of a difference in what is important to individuals.

But, if you can provide examples of players who signed with other teams after receiving a similar offer from the Giants, be my guest. We can discuss actual particulars at that point, instead of just pulling opinions out of our asses.

Heck, I'll even help you by giving you the first name : Juan Uribe. (I think Lester and Pablo are obvious, and they have been debated to death on this board, so I really don't want to do it over again.) Of course, Juan made it very clear why he went to another team, so there's not much to debate there, either (and he's not really a 'star' AND I was *happy* to see him leave).

So, do you have any examples to support your theory?

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

Time to throw our money at Moncada

 

[msgkings322]

Time to throw our money at Moncada

And Shields?

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

Olney reports LAD signed Brett Anderson.

A SP I really wanted to take a chance on. GAH

 

[calsnowskier]

And, to be clear, being frustrated with this off-season is A-O-K. I am getting more and more frustrated as more and more potential targets go elsewhere.

But to extrapolate that to claim the FO is interested in nothing but $$ and blowing smoke up the fans' arses is complete bunk.

 

[Montalban]

Ahhhh, there it is: your agenda. The Giants are cheap.

Was wondering what you were getting at, now we know. There's a blogging douchesack you might like to read, his persistent whine is just that:

The Giants Cove | A San Francisco Giants Blog

Might as well stop looking behind every bush for an "agenda". In this case, at least, you don't know what you are talking about. My "agenda" is trying to figure out why FAs won't come to the best team and best situation in baseball.

 

[Montalban]

I was responding to this post of yours :



Zito gives it a time-frame (after the 2006, or maybe 2007, season). The Giants were not the 'most successful team of this century' until this year. So that's a non-arg for players not signing with them 2006-2014. The best manager? Well, there was no indication 2006-2009 that was the case. He was definitely the best manager of the YEAR in 2010. I would say that before 2012 nobody would have called Bochy 'the best' overall. So that's a non-arg 2006-2012. Sell-out crowds? Not in the 2007-2010 period, so that arg is only valid after 2010. IIRC the Giants didn't announce their 'XXX string of sold-out games' until well into the latter half of the 2011 or maybe even the 2012 season, so I wouldn't call that a draw until (maybe) 2012. I mean, what idiot of a team would start announcing 'hey, we've sold out 10 straight games'? You wait until the number is pretty darn high before blowing your own horn. Finally, 'the best park in baseball'. Well, that's relative and it really depends on a number of criteria. I doubt you would get cubs or red sox fans to agree with you. Nor Padres or Pirates fans. Nor *any* NY fan. I'm not going to go thru all the parks.


To answer your most recent question in a clear manner you can't possibly misconstrue :



No, yes (but that's my personal opinion, not everyone will agree), no, no. Not during the signing periods 2006-2010 (or rather, some were true AFTER the 2010 season, but only in hindsight). So the 'everybody after Zito' argument is just plain bullshit. Anybody NOT signing with the team *starting this year* might be 'spurning' the team, but I think it's probably more of a difference in what is important to individuals.

But, if you can provide examples of players who signed with other teams after receiving a similar offer from the Giants, be my guest. We can discuss actual particulars at that point, instead of just pulling opinions out of our asses.

Heck, I'll even help you by giving you the first name : Juan Uribe. (I think Lester and Pablo are obvious, and they have been debated to death on this board, so I really don't want to do it over again.) Of course, Juan made it very clear why he went to another team, so there's not much to debate there, either (and he's not really a 'star' AND I was *happy* to see him leave).

So, do you have any examples to support your theory?

Yes. Every big name FA since Zito. None have signed with the Giants.

 

[williewilliejuan]

Yes. Every big name FA since Zito. None have signed with the Giants.

How many have they been in on? That isn't Sabean's MO.

 

[msgkings322]

Might as well stop looking behind every bush for an "agenda". In this case, at least, you don't know what you are talking about. My "agenda" is trying to figure out why FAs won't come to the best team and best situation in baseball.

No you don't have anything to figure out, we've answered your question many ways already and you are just churlishly refusing to listen. No big deal but that's how you are coming across.

The answer to your question of why FAs won't come to the best team is that since the Giants have been the 'best team' (4 years ago at most) they haven't ASKED any FAs to come here, except for Lester and Panda.

Also, 'best situation' is not at all provable, and what looks 'best' to you looks different to the actual players making the decisions. And only Lester and Panda were asked to make those decisions, because every other FA since 2011 we've clearly not pursued.

So there's your answer, those are the facts, and you can take it or leave it.

 

[msgkings322]

How many have they been in on? That isn't Sabean's MO.

We've told him this several times, he's got his hands over his ears. The only FAs we've pursued that said no in the last 4 years have been Lester and Panda, just recently.

 

[msgkings322]

Yes. Every big name FA since Zito. None have signed with the Giants.

The Giants have only asked 2 to come here since they got so good. Both were this winter, and both said no. You refuse to provide more examples, because there aren't any and you know it. Lester had nothing to do with us, he preferred the Cubs for reasons already stated. Panda you can really say turned us down and actually preferred to play elsewhere, it wasn't money. That's your one example. And he fits the conventional wisdom which says hitters like hitters parks.

The facts are as they are. You can take them as you wish. This conversation has reached its logical endpoint.

 

[calsnowskier]

Yes. Every big name FA since Zito. None have signed with the Giants.

That's it guys.

I'm done.

He is either insanely dense or just a simple troll.

FWIW, he has already been banned from the Niner board for trolling.

 

[tzill]

Might as well stop looking behind every bush for an "agenda". In this case, at least, you don't know what you are talking about. My "agenda" is trying to figure out why FAs won't come to the best team and best situation in baseball.

And you've concluded it's because the Giants are cheap. You've been roundly disproved on this thread, and now are shifting ground with "you don't know what you're talking about."

Really? You DON'T believe the Giants are cheap?