2015 Rosterbation

[MarcoPolo]

Oh, and about "teams are not apt to trade players when their stock is low". Well the Sox have a logjam in the OF, and Dayan is the one playing LF (Melky's position). I don't see them trading Adam Eaton, although maybe they could send Avisail Garcia to the minors if he has options left. But they'd probably want to keep the better defender, who costs a lot less. They also have LaRoche as DH, so I doubt Dayan is going to spend much time there (unless LR is injured). So they either trade him, or he's an expensive reserve sitting most days on the bench.

Anyhow, it was just a thought if other stuff doesn't work out (or we trade for Hamels and can't send much in LF for 2015).

 

[calsnowskier]

Lester is just one in a long long line of top FA talent who rejected the Giants. And I'm not particularly worried about Lester; I don't think he's that great.

It still concerns me though and makes me wonder why we can't sign top FA talent when those players, by all rights, and for the reasons I've gone over at length, should be beating the doors down to get in here.

Ok, I will bite...


Who?

 

[calsnowskier]

Oh, and about "teams are not apt to trade players when their stock is low". Well the Sox have a logjam in the OF, and Dayan is the one playing LF (Melky's position). I don't see them trading Adam Eaton, although maybe they could send Avisail Garcia to the minors if he has options left. But they'd probably want to keep the better defender, who costs a lot less. They also have LaRoche as DH, so I doubt Dayan is going to spend much time there (unless LR is injured). So they either trade him, or he's an expensive reserve sitting most days on the bench.

Anyhow, it was just a thought if other stuff doesn't work out (or we trade for Hamels and can't send much in LF for 2015).

LaRoche is an elite defender. I suspect he will be the primary 1B with Abreu getting the lions share of DH ABs.

Good point about a crowded OF. But is he a better option in Left than Ishikawa? Better than Morse? I think they would resign Morse before looking at Viciedo. He would cost more (approx 2X), but he has a LOT fewer variables, and we know he fits in the clubhouse.

 

[Montalban]

Ok, I will bite...


Who?

There's no "biting" about it. As I've said again and again, every big FA who has been on the market since Zito. None have signed with the Giants.

 

[MarcoPolo]

There's no "biting" about it. As I've said again and again, every big FA who has been on the market since Zito. None have signed with the Giants.

Sorry, that's just hand-waving. Name names. Exactly who was rumored to have been pursued by the Giants, offered by the Giants an amount about what they eventually signed for, who signed elsewhere? (and 2006-2009 off-seasons don't count, as the Giants were a crappy team during that span)

2006 : 3rd in NLWest, 11.5 games behind leader
2007: 5th, 19 back
2008: 4th, 12 back
2009: 3rd, 7 back

 

[MarcoPolo]

Oh, and you can't use LH power (HR) bats, as only ONE of those has had success at AT&T park.

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

Sorry, that's just hand-waving. Name names. Exactly who was rumored to have been pursued by the Giants, offered by the Giants an amount about what they eventually signed for, who signed elsewhere? (and 2006-2009 off-seasons don't count, as the Giants were a crappy team during that span)

2006 : 3rd in NLWest, 11.5 games behind leader
2007: 5th, 19 back
2008: 4th, 12 back
2009: 3rd, 7 back

(Just adding on)

I think it's very possible (if the money is close) a power-hitter would choose another team over SF. Park factors would play the big part in that, but only recent ones would be Abreu, Castillo and Tomas. All which other team offered another year in a contract for or more money. Other recent examples........blank

SP would love to come here. If Lester has no loyalty ties to CHC/BOS, he comes to SF. Next year it could be David Price or Cueto. If we offer top money, could absolutely come here.

 

[Montalban]

Sorry, that's just hand-waving. Name names. Exactly who was rumored to have been pursued by the Giants, offered by the Giants an amount about what they eventually signed for, who signed elsewhere? (and 2006-2009 off-seasons don't count, as the Giants were a crappy team during that span)

2006 : 3rd in NLWest, 11.5 games behind leader
2007: 5th, 19 back
2008: 4th, 12 back
2009: 3rd, 7 back

I would assume, as would any good business, that the Giants reach out to EVERY big free agent to gauge their interest. They'd have to be fools not to and Sabean is no fool.

As for your stats above did the Giants not have the best park, one of the best areas in the country to live in, the best manager in baseball and a sell out crowd every day during those times? The only thing missing was the WS titles.

Granted the 3 WS titles are huge but if we agree that winning is huge, as you certainly do because you reference the Giants poor records above as being the reason they couldn't attract top FAs, then that only furthers the mystery as to why we can't sign any big names after not one, but 3 WS titles in 5 years. You can see that the arguments against what I'm saying only bring you back to my way of thinking, can you not?

 

[msgkings322]

I would assume, as would any good business, that the Giants reach out to EVERY big free agent to gauge their interest. They'd have to be fools not to and Sabean is no fool.

As for your stats above did the Giants not have the best park, one of the best areas in the country to live in, the best manager in baseball and a sell out crowd every day during those times? The only thing missing was the WS titles.

Granted the 3 WS titles are huge but if we agree that winning is huge, as you certainly do because you reference the Giants poor records above as being the reason they couldn't attract top FAs, then that only furthers the mystery as to why we can't sign any big names after not one, but 3 WS titles in 5 years. You can see that the arguments against what I'm saying only bring you back to my way of thinking, can you not?

Look, you aren't convincing anyone. Reality is what it is no matter what we type here.

The fact is, if we're talking about the 'winning' timeframe, we're only looking at maybe 2011 to now. Do you really think there have been THAT many FAs we've pursued? I posit very few. As I've posted before, the team hasn't really been about improving or adding pieces after they win championships (because why? you just won it all!). Lester is the first FA we've gone after pretty hard that said no, and he had his reasons and they weren't about SF. They have taxes in Illinois too. He turned down Boston too.

IMO all else being equal, hitters will prefer not to sign here, and pitchers might give us an extra look. Again Lester the only exception I can think of. We didn't pursue Pujols or Hamilton or Arod or Sabathia or Cano or Fielder or whoever you would consider 'big names'. They didn't turn us down, we didn't go after them because we knew they didn't fit, or they would cost way too much. ANd guess what? We really didn't need them!

Your position is pretty weak on this, the facts are pretty clear. If you can name a guy besides Lester we went after who said no I'd love to hear it. I doubt you can.

Also, right now, the Giants front office is kind of above reproach. They almost could not have done any better these past few years. It's kind of like how we are troll proof. What can a hater say to us that we can't just chuckle and say 'kiss the rings!' ?

 

[msgkings322]

LaRoche is an elite defender. I suspect he will be the primary 1B with Abreu getting the lions share of DH ABs.

Good point about a crowded OF. But is he a better option in Left than Ishikawa? Better than Morse? I think they would resign Morse before looking at Viciedo. He would cost more (approx 2X), but he has a LOT fewer variables, and we know he fits in the clubhouse.

The White Sox will probably shop Viciedo, I've heard Seattle wants him. He really isn't much better than Morse. Worse hitter, only marginally better defender in left. And if they don't like what's offered for him he becomes a decent bench bat for them.

Yes LaRoche will play more 1B than DH.

 

[msgkings322]

The SLAC (Stanford Linear ACcellerator) is going to produce a nano- black hole and the entire state will be sucked into it ...

Outstanding!

 

[Stokes1931]

Craig an overlooked potential trade piece | MLB.com

Allen Craig, anyone?

 

[calsnowskier]

There's no "biting" about it. As I've said again and again, every big FA who has been on the market since Zito. None have signed with the Giants.

Didn't think so.

 

[calsnowskier]

I would assume, as would any good business, that the Giants reach out to EVERY big free agent to gauge their interest. They'd have to be fools not to and Sabean is no fool.

As for your stats above did the Giants not have the best park, one of the best areas in the country to live in, the best manager in baseball and a sell out crowd every day during those times? The only thing missing was the WS titles.

Granted the 3 WS titles are huge but if we agree that winning is huge, as you certainly do because you reference the Giants poor records above as being the reason they couldn't attract top FAs, then that only furthers the mystery as to why we can't sign any big names after not one, but 3 WS titles in 5 years. You can see that the arguments against what I'm saying only bring you back to my way of thinking, can you not?

ONE of the best parks. PetCo and PNC are certainly in that discussion as well (and a few others).

You love the Bay Area. Good for you. That does not mean everyone does. I love it. I grew up there. But I currently live in San Diego, and I love it here as well. Put a gun to my head, I just may pick San Diego over San Fran. That does not mean someone who chooses SF in the same situation is wrong. They just have a different opinion.

Bochy was respected, but he was NEVER considered the best in the game pre-2010. When the Giants scooped him up from the Padres, there weren't very many tears shed here by the fan base. Bochy has come into his own in the last 10 years or so and it has only begun to bear fruit over the last 5 years.

As Marco mentioned, AT&T was NOT a constant sell out pre-2009. The crowds were a lot like the early-80s Candlestick crowds. Those teams were REALLY bad.

 

[SF11704]

Just my 2 cents ... I think some of us are just in a rather high stress mode. the off season hasn't been to active for us and at the same time the hated doggies have revamped what feels like their entire team. We are WS champions. Have been 3 of the past 5 years but still there are holes. Every team has holes. WS champion or not. I still feel that the Giants are the most dangerous when in a playoff setting. Our pitching can carry almost anything thing for 18 games. Bum clearly showed that. Get us to the playoffs and we will be dangerous. Getting to the playoffs is where the adventure really is. Last year was no cake walk. We had a torrid start and then countered that with a horrible June and July. Amazing to realize that as good as our start was ... Panda contributed nothing during that stretch. Took him a while to get untracked. IMHO we have clear holes in LF and 3B. Oxy is still a question mark. Very fragile. Cain is a question mark as well. Huddy and Vogs are not what you need to place a bet on our next year's playoff chances. Will Belt produce for a full year if given the chance. Still not sure. Buster has been breaking down late in the season. Need to keep him fresh. If I were planning on another run .... I'd follow up on the Braves package of Upton and whoever the 3Bman was. Shields would fill out the rotation. I don't think a WS champion ever really 'punts' .... but they don't have to go all in either. Just don't make trades for the sake of making a trade. I also feel/felt that if we got Lester .... it wouldn't have made the overall impact that we really need .... LF and 3B are our biggest questions ... at least to me. I also think that some of us confuse 'kicking the tires' with extending an offer .... I think we kick a lot of tires but not so many offers actually hit the table.

 

[calsnowskier]

Headly re-ups with the Spanks.

 

[tzill]

What does that even mean?

Political polemic. I see stuff like this (whether I agree or not) on a sports message board and I keep moving.

 

[tzill]

And therein lies another problem; that being that profit margin and not winning seems to be the priority for the ownership group.

Ahhhh, there it is: your agenda. The Giants are cheap.

Was wondering what you were getting at, now we know. There's a blogging douchesack you might like to read, his persistent whine is just that:

The Giants Cove | A San Francisco Giants Blog

 

[tzill]

Well, now that Melky is in ChiTown, maybe the Sox will trade Dayan Viciedo to us? He's a RF/LF and backup 3B. He's right-handed. He's under team control for 3 more seasons. His AVG is lower than I'd like (~.250) and he doesn't steal bases. He can hit the long ball, and will take a walk, but he's no Bill Mueller in the walks dept. He shouldn't be that expensive in a trade since he isn't a fantastic defender and he strikes out a ton. He could be a stop-gap/backyup in either LF or 3B, and bat 7th. Having that HR threat lower in the order would be something we just don't have in-house at either LF or 3B. He could also get dumped for little or nothing if he doesn't work out. Caveat is that I've never seen him play, and don't really know exactly HOW bad a defender he is.

Of course, I'd want the Giants to spend big on pitching if they went the Viciedo route, who would probably only cost ~3M/yr.

Dayan Viciedo

I've seen him play a few times -- dude's a butcher in the field. Whereas this is a nice out of the box idea, I'd pass. I think the Gs should be trying to win with pitching and defense and Viciedo doesn't fit that scheme.

 

[calsnowskier]

The Headly deal is 4/52.



You gotta believe that the PsTB just didn't like him if the Spanks were able to get him on that deal.