2015 Rosterbation

[calsnowskier]

Also, Fitz (I think it was him), was talking about the possibility of throwing vesting options at the tail-end if the contract as a way to incentivizing Panda to stay fit throughout the life if the contract.

For example, 5 years guaranteed, but with a vested 6 with 800 ABs in years 4 and 5 or 500 in year 5. Play with the numbers, but use that idea. That would give him the incentive to remain in "Playing weight" for the bulk of the contract.

Wow.

This was my post 15K?

Not a horrible post, but hardly 15K-worthy.

 

[calsnowskier]

If only someone had pointed him out a couple of years ago...

LOL

As if none of us remember DrB talking him up as a potential 1st round target of the Giants pre-draft.

That DrB really knows his stuff...

 

[MarcoPolo]

Surfing the net, I ran across this very interesting article about $/WAR, written late last year (or early this year) : How Much Does a Win Really Cost? - Beyond the Box Score

Short story: he estimates a win as costing $7M in 2013. Given that, Panda at $18/$19M is NOT an overpay, IF he generally puts up a WAR of 2.7 or better (which he has in 4 of the last 6 seasons).

I also found this article on fangraphs (which is older), looking at $/WAR by position, which looks like 3B for some bizarre reason get fewer $$$ per win : Positional Differences in the Price of WAR | FanGraphs Baseball .

Lastly, I found this article, also on fangraphs, which looks at all the FA signings in the 2013-2014 off-season. Basically, "really good" players got more than $7M/win, as did several 'average starter' players (WAR of 2 or so) : The Cost of a Win in the 2014 Off-Season | FanGraphs Baseball

So, it looks like Panda at 5/90 is actually 'a deal' (although not much of one), if he consistently puts up a WAR of *at least* 2.7 throughout the contract.

 

[Mays-Fan]

Also, Fitz (I think it was him), was talking about the possibility of throwing vesting options at the tail-end if the contract as a way to incentivizing Panda to stay fit throughout the life if the contract.

For example, 5 years guaranteed, but with a vested 6 with 800 ABs in years 4 and 5 or 500 in year 5. Play with the numbers, but use that idea. That would give him the incentive to remain in "Playing weight" for the bulk of the contract.

Sorry, but somehow it's just wrong to use "playing weight" and "bulk" in the same sentence when talking about Panda's contract.

 

[MarcoPolo]

LOL

As if none of us remember DrB talking him up as a potential 1st round target of the Giants pre-draft.

That DrB really knows his stuff...

And Susac was actually the Giants' third pick that draft (Panik was our first pick). What with Panik, Susac, Raymond Black, Derek Law, Clayton Blackburn, Cody Hall, and even maybe Josh Osich, the 2011 draft is looking to be an excellent year for the Giants.

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

More small reports saying Sandoval will end up joining BOS. Though Rosenthal reported he is talking to SF today about meeting/surpassing BOS offer.

Realize reports change every day and things will always change. Just more percentage chances Sandoval ends up in BOS

 

[MarcoPolo]

Sorry, but somehow it's just wrong to use "playing weight" and "bulk" in the same sentence when talking about Panda's contract.

Yes, in no weigh, shape, or form should those two words been used in the same sentence when talking about Panda.




:panda:

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

 

[Stokes1931]

Yes, in no weigh, shape, or form should those two words been used in the same sentence when talking about Panda.




:panda:

Someone on KNBR the other day said something like, "Call us right now and weigh in on the Panda contract situation."

 

[tzill]

Put Posey at third. Use Panda money + WSCIII money + TV money to get a quality FA OF and a quality FA SP. Just saying, if we don't sign Panda.

Posey can't play third. He can barely run the bases. He's just not agile enough.

 

[Mays-Fan]

Posey can't play third. He can barely run the bases. He's just not agile enough.

Panda's not exactly Usain Bolt, and he's practically GG material.

Playing catcher will kill your speed and quickness, squatting all the time. If he stopped playing catcher, he would be plenty agile to play 3B.

Posey played shortstop his first year at FSU. We aren't talking rocket surgery. If push came to shove, Posey can play third, and play it reasonably well (as in, we could win WSC IV with him at third). Of this I have absolutely no doubt.

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

Tomas!

 

[tzill]

Panda's not exactly Usain Bolt, and he's practically GG material.

Playing catcher will kill your speed and quickness, squatting all the time. If he stopped playing catcher, he would be plenty agile to play 3B.

Posey played shortstop his first year at FSU. We aren't talking rocket surgery. If push came to shove, Posey can play third, and play it reasonably well (as in, we could win WSC IV with him at third). Of this I have absolutely no doubt.

I don't think that at this point in his career he's agile enough to play 3b. And I don't think he ever will be. That he played SS in college 7 years ago doesn't change that assessment. He'd have almost zero range of motion over there. I agree that catching kills agility; I also think you don't recover it after several years behind the dish.

Contrast that with Panda, who, although not fast, is incredibly spry. He stopped catching in time.

 

[Mays-Fan]

I don't think that at this point in his career he's agile enough to play 3b. And I don't think he ever will be. That he played SS in college 7 years ago doesn't change that assessment. He'd have almost zero range of motion over there. I agree that catching kills agility; I also think you don't recover it after several years behind the dish.

Contrast that with Panda, who, although not fast, is incredibly spry. He stopped catching in time.

I would concede that Posey would never be Panda at third as a fielder. And we will always time his baserunning with a calendar. But if his defense was adequate, and he would return as a hitter to Buster of 2012 or close to it, that would be a good tradeoff.

Besides, tzill, you of all people should get behind any effort to get more playing time for Susac.

 

[Stokes1931]

I would concede that Posey would never be Panda at third as a fielder. And we will always time his baserunning with a calendar. But if his defense was adequate, and he would return as a hitter to Buster of 2012 or close to it, that would be a good tradeoff.

Besides, tzill, you of all people should get behind any effort to get more playing time for Susac.

When you read what the pitching staff says about Posey, all the talk about him moving to 3rd is nonsense. He is the general on the field. You can direct the game as a catcher, not as a third baseman.

That said, Posey should get one day off a week next season, and at least one game a week at first. That should help keep him fresh. If he got 120 games at catcher and 20 at 1st, Susser/Hacktor would get 40+ games at catcher, plus mopup duty.

Posey was a defensive force in the post season, but at the end of the WS, was completely gassed at the plate. He could barely hit the ball out of the infield.

I haven't heard of Duffy being mentioned at 3rd, if Panda leaves. He may not be great, but he is a good hitter and seems solid on D. He was a college shortstop, as was Panik.

 

[BroncoInCALI]

Here is what I don't get. If the $$$$ is basically equal, why the hell would Sandoval leave?

My gut tells me the "Boston is the leader in the clubhouse" stuff if hopeful conjecture from the media because they can't stand seeing their darling Red Sox having troubles.

If he leaves with the offers being nearly identical, that will be a head scratcher for me.

 

[MarcoPolo]

Here is what I don't get. If the $$$$ is basically equal, why the hell would Sandoval leave?

My gut tells me the "Boston is the leader in the clubhouse" stuff if hopeful conjecture from the media because they can't stand seeing their darling Red Sox having troubles.

If he leaves with the offers being nearly identical, that will be a head scratcher for me.

This really smells like Pablo's agent trying to get the most money out of the Giants that he possibly can, and Pablo has already told him he wants to stay with the team. (Pablo's agent told the Giants they get 'one more chance at a final offer' and then Pablo will decide next week.) Either that or he never really wanted to stay and was using the Giants to get large offers from the team where he really wanted to play (Boston). It's one or the other. On a contract worth almost $100M, $5M is not the amount to get you to leave the team you wanted to play for. (Although MA's highest income tax rate is 5.1%, I believe, compared to CA's 12.3%, so that's an additional $8M or so as well.)

 

[MarcoPolo]

Oops - not $8M, probably closer to $5M. Only half the games are played in MA. But the AL also has 2 teams in TX and one in WA and one in FL (no tax states) and the NL only has the Marlins, right? Also, the AL East (most games played by RedSox) has NYC, TOR (that's gotta hurt in taxes!), BAL (MD, 5.75%), BOS (5.2%) and Tampa Bay (0%). Central is DET (MI, 4.25%), KCR (MO, 6%), CLE (OH, 5.4%) CHW (IL, 5%) and MIN (9.85%). And ALW has 2 CA teams, 2 TX teams and a WA team.

 

[calsnowskier]

This really smells like Pablo's agent trying to get the most money out of the Giants that he possibly can, and Pablo has already told him he wants to stay with the team. (Pablo's agent told the Giants they get 'one more chance at a final offer' and then Pablo will decide next week.) Either that or he never really wanted to stay and was using the Giants to get large offers from the team where he really wanted to play (Boston). It's one or the other. On a contract worth almost $100M, $5M is not the amount to get you to leave the team you wanted to play for. (Although MA's highest income tax rate is 5.1%, I believe, compared to CA's 12.3%, so that's an additional $8M or so as well.)

Playing Boston, he would 50% of hugs salary at MAs rate, and about 15% at NYs rate (plus another 5% or so at CA and Canadian rates.

If he stays in SF (or goes to SD), he would have about 65% or so taken by CA.

I am sure he and his agents know the actual amounts and are figuring them into their decisions.

 

[BroncoInCALI]

I totally agree with the thought that this is all a bunch of posturing by Sandoval's camp.....I really think he has zero intention of leaving SF, and he is taking the steps to squeeze every dollar he can out of the Giants.