2015 Pitching roster

[tzill]

The Giants are going to have to make some decisions about the rotation and bullpen, given players coming back from the DL and potentially guys coming up from the minors. And, I think there will be a trade too.

Here's the roster as it stands now:

SP: Bum/Moses/Horse/Peaved/Tron
RP: KCya/Romo/Greek/Strick/JLo/Sick/Biggie/Macho
DL: JA/Huddy/BT

That's 16 guys for 12 spots (we are currently carrying 13 pitchers which IMO is unsustainable).

Locks:
SP -- Bum/Moses/Horse/Peaved/Huddy
RP -- KCya/Greek/Strick/JLo/Biggie/JA
Bubble -- Tron/Romo/Macho/BT

Say we trade for Papelbon. We'd likely want to send over some combination of Romo/Macho/Sick/Greek as part of the trade. Obviously, Romo's contract and stature with the team makes it unlikely we deal him to a last place club, or that they'd want his salary (about $2M the rest of this year plus $9M next). Macho wouldn't have much value, but might be includable as a serviceable long reliever who doesn't cost a lot. In other words, they might take him if we insist. Sick would have value, as would Greek. IMO, such a trade would be centered on young relief prospects, which the farm is loaded with. BT is fairly untradeable, unless we pick up most of his salary (about $6M left this year) and even then, I can't see us dumping him on a last place club given all he's done for the franchise. Seattle isn't really in the WC race and I doubt they'd see BT as the piece that gets them into contention. Still, we may be able to trade him to the M's for just the salary relief.

If we don't trade BT, we are stuck with removing another of the "locks" from the bullpen. KCya would have value, so that's one possibility (especially if we get Pap). I'm assuming we wouldn't deal Strick, who many see as the future closer. JLo has limited value as a LOOGY with a large contract ($1.3M left this year, $5M next). Biggie could be traded, but I'd think he has more value to us than any other team, and I'm not sure BT can replace what he gives us. JA falls into the BT category -- underproducing pending FA with little/no value.

So, it's a quandary on many levels, as there are a ton of moving pieces -- especially if we trade for a closer (which I think we will). Two reasons to do this: 1. we need another solid arm in the back end of the bullpen and 2. any solid closer we pick up is an arm that the doyers don't have.

My WAG for the pitching roster a month from now:

SP: Bum/Moses/Horse/Peaved/Tron
RP: Pap/KCya/Strick/JLo/Biggie/JA/Romo

Tron/Macho/BT/Greek traded. Sick in AAA

 

[calsnowskier]

I think they will place Vogey on the DL for now. Give him a breather.

When JA comes back, I think Machi gets DFA'd.

I am not sure there is a huge rush to get Timmeh back, but I am not sure they have the option of just stashing him. He will be the one that will end up requiring the Giants to make some kind of trade. I am not that excited about Paps, though. He is making a kings ransom and he is a cancer in the locker room. Sure, he is having a good year, but I am not sure he is a fit here.

If there is any chance we can get Chapman without giving up Beede, I would look at that. Send KCYa and Strickland, along with someone like Cole or Tomlinson, and we may be getting the conversation started.

 

[tzill]

I think they will place Vogey on the DL for now. Give him a breather.

When JA comes back, I think Machi gets DFA'd.

I am not sure there is a huge rush to get Timmeh back, but I am not sure they have the option of just stashing him. He will be the one that will end up requiring the Giants to make some kind of trade. I am not that excited about Paps, though. He is making a kings ransom and he is a cancer in the locker room. Sure, he is having a good year, but I am not sure he is a fit here.

If there is any chance we can get Chapman without giving up Beede, I would look at that. Send KCYa and Strickland, along with someone like Cole or Tomlinson, and we may be getting the conversation started.

"good year" for Papelbon? How about an ERA+ of 238?? That's historically good. On pace for 2.5 - 3.0 WAR?

Jeebus, your standards for a "good year" are high. Chapman would be great, but I doubt we'd be able to extract value out of a deal for him. He'll just cost too much. Likely starts at Susac plus Beede.

 

[calsnowskier]

"good year" for Papelbon? How about an ERA+ of 238?? That's historically good. On pace for 2.5 - 3.0 WAR?

Jeebus, your standards for a "good year" are high. Chapman would be great, but I doubt we'd be able to extract value out of a deal for him. He'll just cost too much. Likely starts at Susac plus Beede.

My focus was not on the year he is having. I was, by no means saying he was not having a great year. My focus was on the contract and his personality.

 

[msgkings322]

Yeah, tzill, Papelbon's minuses make his pluses not that much. I guess you could make a case that being part of such a great clubhouse might chill him out a bit.

 

[tzill]

Yeah, tzill, Papelbon's minuses make his pluses not that much. I guess you could make a case that being part of such a great clubhouse might chill him out a bit.

I can't assess what a fit he'd be. It's Buster and Pence and Cain and Bum's clubhouse. If they think Pap couldn't/wouldn't fit into that then I guess they pass.

I just don't see them NOT adding a reliever, and Chapman will be too expensive. Chris Haft thinks BT might be traded soon as there is no place for him on the roster.

 

[Mays-Fan]

Gotta be tough on Timmy. After being a superstar his entire life, to have to struggle with an 85 mph fastball and not being able to overpower people has to be depressing. Double whammy. He's gotta be just clock watching now.

 

[calsnowskier]

I can't assess what a fit he'd be. It's Buster and Pence and Cain and Bum's clubhouse. If they think Pap couldn't/wouldn't fit into that then I guess they pass.

I just don't see them NOT adding a reliever, and Chapman will be too expensive. Chris Haft thinks BT might be traded soon as there is no place for him on the roster.

Who would take Timmeh, though? And how much would the Giants have to eat, salary-wise?

I dont know what they will do with Timmeh, but I just dont see a trade in the cards.

 

[calsnowskier]

Gotta be tough on Timmy. After being a superstar his entire life, to have to struggle with an 85 mph fastball and not being able to overpower people has to be depressing. Double whammy. He's gotta be just clock watching now.

Everything is relative. Relative to where he was just a few years ago, he is currently in the slums and is completely incompetent. Sad really.

 

[tzill]

Who would take Timmeh, though? And how much would the Giants have to eat, salary-wise?

I dont know what they will do with Timmeh, but I just dont see a trade in the cards.

Well, he's only due another $6MM on his contract, so it's not an albatross. I could see the M's taking him for either an Austin Jackson if we ate the K, or a B prospect if they took the whole K.

 

[calsnowskier]

Would we even want Jackson? He looks like a slight improvement over Maxwell, but would still be behind Blanco on the depth chart. I think there would be better opportunities for improvement than Austin Jackson.

Keep in mind, I am only complaining about Jackson because of the aaumption that the Gs would pay Timmeh. The Giants could pay him by 60-Day'ing him or DFAing him as well. Why take on an additional 7M guy (approx 3M left) for next to no improvement on the current roster?

 

[tzill]

Would we even want Jackson? He looks like a slight improvement over Maxwell, but would still be behind Blanco on the depth chart. I think there would be better opportunities for improvement than Austin Jackson.

Keep in mind, I am only complaining about Jackson because of the aaumption that the Gs would pay Timmeh. The Giants could pay him by 60-Day'ing him or DFAing him as well. Why take on an additional 7M guy (approx 3M left) for next to no improvement on the current roster?

Well, I was spitballing, but Jackson is an upgrade over Maxwell. So, he'd strengthen the bench. Who I'd really like to see them get is Seth Smith, but he'd take a good deal more than BT.

 

[calsnowskier]

Well, I was spitballing, but Jackson is an upgrade over Maxwell. So, he'd strengthen the bench. Who I'd really like to see them get is Seth Smith, but he'd take a good deal more than BT.

Well, now we are getting off topic, a bit, talking about OF trade targets. I am of the opinion that the only OF target should be a good #4 guy to go hand-in-hand with Blanco. Getting another #5 or a starter just aren't sweet spots.

As for what to do about Timmeh???



He will not be DFA'd. To much of an icon for that. If we could get anything for him, I could see a trade, but I don't see that happening except, as you said, Seattle offers an OK-to-not filler prospect in A-. I am not sure Seattle really cares that much, though.

 

[Mays-Fan]

Well, now we are getting off topic, a bit, talking about OF trade targets. I am of the opinion that the only OF target should be a good #4 guy to go hand-in-hand with Blanco. Getting another #5 or a starter just aren't sweet spots.

As for what to do about Timmeh???



He will not be DFA'd. To much of an icon for that. If we could get anything for him, I could see a trade, but I don't see that happening except, as you said, Seattle offers an OK-to-not filler prospect in A-. I am not sure Seattle really cares that much, though.

Agreed, he's too much of an icon to get DFA treatment. Or traded during the year, IMHO. I think when he comes off the DL, he gets one more shot as an SP. That might mean two games, depending. If that fails, he gets quietly moved to the bullpen, and waits to see if he makes the playoff roster after we win the division.

 

[tzill]

Agreed, he's too much of an icon to get DFA treatment. Or traded during the year, IMHO. I think when he comes off the DL, he gets one more shot as an SP. That might mean two games, depending. If that fails, he gets quietly moved to the bullpen, and waits to see if he makes the playoff roster after we win the division.

In theory, I could see this approach. In practice, there is just no room for him in the rotation, unless two guys get hurt. With Huddy coming OFF the DL shortly, I just don't see it.

 

[calsnowskier]

Right now, we have 6 guys who are doing at least OK...

Bum - lock
Heston - lock
Cain - lock (although still a question, he has enough cache that he is a lock)

Peavy - Looking great, but still a question

Huddy - Coming off the DL/Vacation - we will see

Vogey - getting demoted, though I SERIOUSLY question how effective he will be in the pen. He has his set-in-stone routine that doesn't translate well to the pen.

Sorry Timmeh, no room at the inn.

 

[GiantsPackersChamps2011]

Right now, we have 6 guys who are doing at least OK...

Bum - lock
Heston - lock
Cain - lock (although still a question, he has enough cache that he is a lock)

Peavy - Looking great, but still a question

Huddy - Coming off the DL/Vacation - we will see

Vogey - getting demoted, though I SERIOUSLY question how effective he will be in the pen. He has his set-in-stone routine that doesn't translate well to the pen.

Sorry Timmeh, no room at the inn.

cal saved me writing. So now I'll just use this time to say

Thanks Cal!

Now just re; Papelbon

Enormous contract, enormous ego (I can deal with ego more from every day guys/SP than relievers, just me)

He has had some luck this year with the baBIP when compared to career averages.

He does leave a lot of guys on base (84 % this year, highest since 2007)

Also just feel like prospects would be wasted by trading for Papelbon. He isn't going to make the difference on if this is a WS team or not and if he is the one "big" move, that's not a nice contract.

If we can't find a CF or another No.3 SP, this isn't a great contending team, with or without Papelbon. Would rather just keep whichever specs we trade for him and keep the cash

 

[msgkings322]

cal saved me writing. So now I'll just use this time to say

Thanks Cal!

Now just re; Papelbon

Enormous contract, enormous ego (I can deal with ego more from every day guys/SP than relievers, just me)

He has had some luck this year with the baBIP when compared to career averages.

He does leave a lot of guys on base (84 % this year, highest since 2007)

Also just feel like prospects would be wasted by trading for Papelbon. He isn't going to make the difference on if this is a WS team or not and if he is the one "big" move, that's not a nice contract.

If we can't find a CF or another No.3 SP, this isn't a great contending team, with or without Papelbon. Would rather just keep whichever specs we trade for him and keep the cash

With you here. This year isn't about a big push. Although losing secondary prospects is no big thing and it's not our money. Agree we need a CF (remember when Aoki gets back though Blanco can be the starting CF) and another starter. But I'm fine if they stand pat and don't do much this year.

 

[msgkings322]

Right now, we have 6 guys who are doing at least OK...

Bum - lock
Heston - lock
Cain - lock (although still a question, he has enough cache that he is a lock)

Peavy - Looking great, but still a question

Huddy - Coming off the DL/Vacation - we will see

Vogey - getting demoted, though I SERIOUSLY question how effective he will be in the pen. He has his set-in-stone routine that doesn't translate well to the pen.

Sorry Timmeh, no room at the inn.

It's true, but how do they handle it? They are a classy organization, they'll have to find a classy way out.

 

[calsnowskier]

It's true, but how do they handle it? They are a classy organization, they'll have to find a classy way out.

I agree it will be delicate, but the org has shown Timmeh MORE than enough patience (and he has shown it back, regarding the way he didnt outwardly bitch about not being used in the post-season last year). I think Timmeh is self-aware enough to know that if the team is contending, he will have to shut up and take what the team dishes. He simply is not an asset on the roster anymore.

I have no idea how he will be handled. there simply is not room on the roster, especially once JA comes back. No way Sick or Strickland get demoted. They have been too good, and we cant afford to just stash them this year. They need to be on the club.

Again, I have no clue how to solve these issues. It will be fun to see how it plays out.