2015 Entry Draft Thread

[Cbrower91]

Moose was one of Strelows favorites so I'm looking forward to what he can do.

I think Jones was the best young option available this off season but I didn't think the Sharks had a chance at him since he was with LA and was moved to Boston.

Mooses technical game was pretty flawless and he was a smaller goalie so I like the prospect on stalocks development

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Not worth the 2016 1st rounder and rights to a prospect

If the consensus is right that he is ready to be a legit #1 then I'm okay with that price. I'm not a big fan of what's available in the 2016 draft and Kuraly would have never been more than a 4th liner in the NHL if he ever made it at all.

 

[Cbrower91]

If the consensus is right that he is ready to be a legit #1 then I'm okay with that price. I'm not a big fan of what's available in the 2016 draft and Kuraly would have never been more than a 4th liner in the NHL if he ever made it at all.

Well if he closed up those holes in his game they might be right, but I haven't seen anything that's shown that he has

 

[MrChangoT97]

Doug is taking Baby Steps in the positive direction.

 

[sjrules99]

A 1st rounder next year? Fucking ridiculously stupid move there. Kuraly is a throw in, nothing to talk about htere, but that 1st could easily be a top 10 pick. Would Jones for the 5gh overall pick be smart? Fuck no. This wreaks of the kessel deal that fucked the leafs out of seguin and dougie hamilton.

Jones had played a total of 34 NHL games!!! You dont trade a lottery pick for a 25 year old guy with 34 games of NHL experience.

I would be willing to bet big time that this will go down as one of the worst trades in San Jose Sharks history when they absolutely tank next year, finish again in the bottom 10, and miss out on a premier player.

Also, when 'rebuilding', why trade your 1st rounder for an unproven guy? Picks are how you rebuild, espcially likely lottery picks. I cannot believe this move.

Now dougie just needs to give him 5 years at 6M per... that would be a nice cherry on top.

Unbelievable.

 

[sjrules99]

Agreed on Dillion he's one of those players that could go either way, become a solid dependable or AHL fodder he seems like he's on the cusp. Im sure Braun will return to form he spent good majority of last season injured

he could indeed go either way, but he has yet to show me any sign of being dependable. he's been pretty bad at every level from juniors on. His big, but slow, and offers nothing offensively. If he rounds into a top 4 Dman, Id be thrilled, of course, but I have yet to see anything that points in that direction.

Braun and Vlasic are great. Burns seems to have gotten better defensively as the year went on, so i am cautiously optimistic. however, Mueller remains a total question mark. He was clearly overmatched last year, so he has to improve a ton to reach solid NHL player status. Of course, he very well could, and I can see his smooth skating style and skills eventually getting there.

Basically, I see the sharks as having 3 top 4 Dmen, and then nothing else that is even bona fide NHL quality. That's not a recipe for success...

 

[sjrules99]

You know what's realllllly bugging me? Dougie cant seem to make up his mind between "win now" and "rebuild".

Win now evidence:
1. Big two still here. Ample chances to move them, even though it would shake the boat. Them still being here is costing alot of likely prospects/picks.
2. Trading the 2016 1st rounder (which could easily be a top lottery pick) for an unproven goalie.
3. Not trading other assets to acquire picks/prospects.

Rebuild evidence:
1. keeping the picks for this year, and even trading up to get Roy.
2. Not signing big name UFA's (though this is TBD as of tomorrow)
3. Resigning Dillon to a long term deal as a project.
4. Not resigning nemo

Seems like Dougie is looking to the future, but is also trying to be respectable now. Admirable as this is, unfortunately, it feels like that kind of strategy is likely to keep the team mediocre to poor for a very long time. Truly rebuilding means:
1. Moving the big two, not only for the return but also to give guys like nieto, hertl, tierney, Karlsson, Wingels, goldobin and others a larger role, and to open up spots for competition among the prospects.
2. Not trading your 2016 1st rounder and instead giving stalock and grosenick a chance, and/or adding Ramo/Neuvirth/whoever in a short term deal (if they suck, then at least you know AND you get a top pick in 2016).
3. Using cap space to add other picks and prospects (i.e. adding picks and prospects by taking on deals to alleviate other cap strapped teams)
4. Only trading picks/prospects for very young studs like Dougie Hamilton that are rare finds.

The sharks are stuck in the middle, and I just cannot understand what dougie is doing...

 

[Cmon_WTF]

A 1st rounder next year? Fucking ridiculously stupid move there. Kuraly is a throw in, nothing to talk about htere, but that 1st could easily be a top 10 pick. Would Jones for the 5gh overall pick be smart? Fuck no. This wreaks of the kessel deal that fucked the leafs out of seguin and dougie hamilton.

Jones had played a total of 34 NHL games!!! You dont trade a lottery pick for a 25 year old guy with 34 games of NHL experience.

I would be willing to bet big time that this will go down as one of the worst trades in San Jose Sharks history when they absolutely tank next year, finish again in the bottom 10, and miss out on a premier player.

Also, when 'rebuilding', why trade your 1st rounder for an unproven guy? Picks are how you rebuild, espcially likely lottery picks. I cannot believe this move.

Now dougie just needs to give him 5 years at 6M per... that would be a nice cherry on top.

Unbelievable.

Jones has the potential to be a top ten goalie in the not too distant future. As long as that pick doesn't turn into Austin Matthews I like this trade for the Sharks. Sucks to give up a first but you're getting a young player who's already been developed and who has as much or more talent and potential then the player they'd draft with that pick.

 

[sjrules99]

btw, every message board everywhere is lighting up with how much the sharks overpaid. Couldnt dougie have gotten jones for a little less? The market wasnt that hot for goalies and boston itself was clearly overstaffed and looking to move. Why did dougie give up a potentially top 10 pick for him? Why does it seem that dougie so consistently overpays in trades? With the exception of the Boyle an Thornton deals nearly a decade ago, every other move has been either even or an overpay.

Even the Burns deal saw him move 2 1st rounders in addition to set for ONE YEAR of burns. yes, he resigned him, but at the time, it was one year!

then you add the laundry list of clear overpays like the 2nd rounder for moore or the throwaway of jamie Mcgiin or nick bonino (not just didnt work out, but clearly overpaid) as well as the overpaid or just dumb UFA signings (burish, brown, scott to name a few), and dougie is quickly racking up evidence of not being able to work a good deal.

it almost feels like he has been milking the Thornton-Boyle deals for so long that he has pretty much failed in virtually every other deal, and has only been lucky enough to get great picks in late rounds to keep the team afloat (see demers, braun, and pavs as 7th rounders, Wingels in the 5th, stalock in the 4th, vlasic, nieto, tierney, mcginn, Carle, in the 2nd...) With that much talent picked in the late rounds, dougie has managed to trade consistently poorly and sign UFA's poorly yet still ice a good team. However, Boyle is gone and the big two are old now, and it seems that his poor trading acumen and misuse of valuable picks is coming to roost. I feel like a truly great GM with that kind of haul in the later rounds could have easily iced a cup winner (at at least a team to play in the finals) by now.

 

[sjrules99]

Jones has the potential to be a top ten goalie in the not too distant future. As long as that pick doesn't turn into Austin Matthews I like this trade for the Sharks. Sucks to give up a first but you're getting a young player who's already been developed and who has as much or more talent and potential then the player they'd draft with that pick.

Potential to be a top 10 goalie? Potential. not is. That word potential is very important, so the real test is would you trade the, say, 9th overall pick for him (assuming the sharks finish the same spot as this year, which is a pretty fair assumption given that the roster is largely the same with the big two getting older offsetting a hopeful rise in some of the younger guys). If you would deal a 9th overall for Martin Jones, then it's a fine deal.
if not, then it's a bad deal.

IF his "potential" as a top 10 goalie is realized, and
IF the sharks play well enoguh to get into the PO's and that pick is in the late teens or 20s, and
IF Jones sticks around for a while at a good cap number, Then its a good move.

But...
If Jones does not emerge as a studly goalie, or
If the cap hit is large, or
If the sharks tank and the pick is a top 5 pick, then this will be a killer move that hurts the team severely for a decade.

Its a high risk move that, given the roster and state of the Defense, has a high probability of backfiring and could be disasterous. if nothing else, the price was well above the market given the glut of goalies on the market and specifically the glut in Boston. I gotta think the price was well above what dougie had to offer especially since talbot and lack both went without a 1st, and Jones was dealt from LA for clearly less than a 1st (no way LA would have given up 2 1st rounders for lucic). Seems to me that a 2nd would have done it, and the difference between a 1st and 2nd when possibly picking in the top 10 is massive.

 

[sjrules99]

Jones has the potential to be a top ten goalie in the not too distant future. As long as that pick doesn't turn into Austin Matthews I like this trade for the Sharks. Sucks to give up a first but you're getting a young player who's already been developed and who has as much or more talent and potential then the player they'd draft with that pick.

by teh way, on a side note, is the 2016 draft so thin that Jones is worth anyone other than the likely 1st overall. Would you deal a surefire 2nd or 3rd overall pick for him?

 

[Cmon_WTF]

btw, every message board everywhere is lighting up with how much the sharks overpaid. Couldnt dougie have gotten jones for a little less? The market wasnt that hot for goalies and boston itself was clearly overstaffed and looking to move. Why did dougie give up a potentially top 10 pick for him? Why does it seem that dougie so consistently overpays in trades? With the exception of the Boyle an Thornton deals nearly a decade ago, every other move has been either even or an overpay.

Even the Burns deal saw him move 2 1st rounders in addition to set for ONE YEAR of burns. yes, he resigned him, but at the time, it was one year!

then you add the laundry list of clear overpays like the 2nd rounder for moore or the throwaway of jamie Mcgiin or nick bonino (not just didnt work out, but clearly overpaid) as well as the overpaid or just dumb UFA signings (burish, brown, scott to name a few), and dougie is quickly racking up evidence of not being able to work a good deal.

it almost feels like he has been milking the Thornton-Boyle deals for so long that he has pretty much failed in virtually every other deal, and has only been lucky enough to get great picks in late rounds to keep the team afloat (see demers, braun, and pavs as 7th rounders, Wingels in the 5th, stalock in the 4th, vlasic, nieto, tierney, mcginn, Carle, in the 2nd...) With that much talent picked in the late rounds, dougie has managed to trade consistently poorly and sign UFA's poorly yet still ice a good team. However, Boyle is gone and the big two are old now, and it seems that his poor trading acumen and misuse of valuable picks is coming to roost. I feel like a truly great GM with that kind of haul in the later rounds could have easily iced a cup winner (at at least a team to play in the finals) by now.

What message boards are you reading? The only people calling this an over pay are people who's team traded a goalie and didn't get as much in return or people who wanted Jones on their team and now didn't get him. Lebrun, McGuire, Friedman, McKenzie (you u know people actually close to the game) all call this a good trade for both teams.

Most of the posts by LA fans are calling this a good trade for the Sharks and many of them seem not to happy about having to play him 6 times a year. That tells me just about all I need to know.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

by teh way, on a side note, is the 2016 draft so thin that Jones is worth anyone other than the likely 1st overall. Would you deal a surefire 2nd or 3rd overall pick for him?

Yes. There is some decient talent 2-5ish but not enough to pass up a good goalie who could be on the team for a long time as it grows. When dealing for young players sometimes you have to base value on that players potential.

 

[sjrules99]

What message boards are you reading? The only people calling this an over pay are people who's team traded a goalie and didn't get as much in return or people who wanted Jones on their team and now didn't get him. Lebrun, McGuire, Friedman, McKenzie (you u know people actually close to the game) all call this a good trade for both teams.

Most of the posts by LA fans are calling this a good trade for the Sharks and many of them seem not to happy about having to play him 6 times a year. That tells me just about all I need to know.

I havent seen the remarks that you are mentioning. Where did you see them?

I suppose, as with every trade involving picks, it's all about how it works out. The better the sharks play, the better the deal because the pick is worse. The worse they play, the worse the deal as the the pick will be high. Just seems strange that dougie, in the midst of a rebuilding period would roll the dice with next year's first rounder on a guy with 34 games experience at the NHL level, no matter how good the potential may be.

I just really hope that we are not sitting a year from now watching the NHL lottery praying that we DONT win the 1st overall pick, as asset lost going for a homerun on a young goalie.

p.s.: Dougie hamilton, 6 yrs, just under 6M per. Cheap cheap deal for a #1 Dman. Couldnt dougie have gotten him?!! He's much more what they really needed and if dogie was willing to trade a 1st for jones, why not a 1st and a 2nd for Hamilton? As much as I look forward to meier and roy, Id still rather have had hamilton by far.

 

[sjrules99]

Yes. There is some decient talent 2-5ish but not enough to pass up a good goalie who could be on the team for a long time as it grows. When dealing for young players sometimes you have to base value on that players potential.

Wow, you must agree with dougie and see martin jones a real franchise player. I mean, top 5 picks are few and far between and usually amount to real stars. I guess your confidence makes me feel better...

 

[sjrules99]

I guess given the price paid for jones, what kind of deal should we expect. I cannot imagine a 1 or 2 yar deal given what dougie sees in him. Should I expect 5 years, 20M? What do you think is coming?

 

[Cbrower91]

What message boards are you reading? The only people calling this an over pay are people who's team traded a goalie and didn't get as much in return or people who wanted Jones on their team and now didn't get him. Lebrun, McGuire, Friedman, McKenzie (you u know people actually close to the game) all call this a good trade for both teams.

Most of the posts by LA fans are calling this a good trade for the Sharks and many of them seem not to happy about having to play him 6 times a year. That tells me just about all I need to know.

McGuires opinion means jack shit honestly lol he has dirt on someone it's the only reason he's in the game.

I think kings fan fear the potential of Jones becoming all world more than actually dreading playing because he's so good right now, at only 35 games spread over 2 season against mostly weak competition. I know a lot people like him but everyone liked Anders Lindback just the same and discredited Ben bishop, the proof will be in his performance.

 

[Cbrower91]

Wow, you must agree with dougie and see martin jones a real franchise player. I mean, top 5 picks are few and far between and usually amount to real stars. I guess your confidence makes me feel better...

I don't think he sees him as a Carey price or Johnny quick but probably Brayden Holtby just more athletic

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Wow, you must agree with dougie and see martin jones a real franchise player. I mean, top 5 picks are few and far between and usually amount to real stars. I guess your confidence makes me feel better...

Franchise I think is overstating it. When I think franchise I think Lundauist, Rinne, Price, and Rask. I believe Jones can be on a level right below those guys though.

This, like most trades for inexperienced players, is going to be the definition of a 20/20 hind sight trade. If Jones pans out its a great trade for the Sharks. If he doesn't its a really bad one. I like Jones enough that I'm okay with the risk/reward of moving a 1st even though there is potential of it being a high pick.

 

[Cbrower91]

J.P. Anderson, defenseman Taylor Doherty and forwards Uriah Hayes weren't qualified nothing shocking though I think they fucked up Jp andersons development though