2014 Offseason Plans Thread Pt2

[WastinSomeTime]

He's not terrible, but its not going to get any better and its not going to find a better RFer than Cruz, he's a DH and the sooner he realizes that the better

He ranked 14 out of 18 in UZR and 15 out of 18 in UZR/150, 11th in defensive runs saved but also played in 1000 innings less than any of the qualifiers below him or it would've probably been worse

Once again, not terrible, not the worst but he's pretty bad

Surprised that rARM and ARM are in the negative.

 

[Bmurph]

This is your quote:

"fake it as long as he can and stay on the field for parts of the next few years"

Now you're seem to be admiring him, giving him his due. So what did you mean by, "faking it?"

I was more talking about the age than anything when I said "fake it". I think he is actually older than what he claims and that eventually catches up to you and you really can't do much about it. As long as Pujols is on the field healthy or not I think he gives it everything he's got, I just think because of the age thing he will regress quickly at this point in his career and won't be because of lack of desire to still perform at a high level. It will be because he lead people to believe (faked his age) he was younger than he is.

 

[lainey12]

I don't question him at all. If he can walk the dude will be in the lineup. I bet it killed him to miss the last part of the last season. If he is actually healed I would expect a rebound season.

I don't doubt him either, in agonizing pain, still out there trying to contribute. He by all accounts should be healed, at least the foot. Of course I think his best days are over, but I have no doubt he's still dangerous and likely to have better numbers this year.

and there is no maybe when it comes to Puljos and the HOF.

I've always liked him, hated it when he came to our division

 

[lainey12]

I was more talking about the age than anything when I said "fake it". I think he is actually older than what he claims and that eventually catches up to you and you really can't do much about it. As long as Pujols is on the field healthy or not I think he gives it everything he's got, I just think because of the age thing he will regress quickly at this point in his career and won't be because of lack of desire to still perform at a high level. It will be because he lead people to believe (faked his age) he was younger than he is.

He looks older, I don't know...has there ever been good evidence either way?

The guy is tough all the way around, always been known for it, and if he's out there...he cares.
Puljos is like Beltre, you're going to have to drag those two off the field

 

[DT LUNA]

Help! Where is everyone?

 

[RevSader]

Help! Where is everyone?

Yeah 12 hours between any posts seems rare.

 

[TheRangerDude]

He's not terrible, but its not going to get any better and its not going to find a better RFer than Cruz, he's a DH and the sooner he realizes that the better

He ranked 14 out of 18 in UZR and 15 out of 18 in UZR/150, 11th in defensive runs saved but also played in 1000 innings less than any of the qualifiers below him or it would've probably been worse

Once again, not terrible, not the worst but he's pretty bad

I respectfully disagree, he's not a DH. If so, why was he playing RF and not DH for us last year? Why is Beltran (the lowest person on the UZR list you linked slated to start in RF for the Yankees?) Or Stanton? Or Cuddyer? Just because they are not the best or even below average doesn't mean they need to be DH's. As a I have said before, sometimes you sacrifice a little defense for some pop. Will be be a DH someday? Sure that's where most power hitters future lies. Also, it's never wise to assume where someones or somethings stats would lie for data that doesn't exist yet.

As for the stats you listed. That's sort of around where you would expect him to be, maybe I would expect slightly higher. Lets not forget here that we are comparing him to only 18 other RF's in this case too. I suppose the other 12 did not qualify for the stat? Where would he rank amongst all RF last season? Also, is a UZR ranking for one season even significant? Even fan graphs notes UZR should be compared for 3 full seasons of defensive data before drawing in conclusions about a players defense from it. So it seems they even suggest you compare it over 3 seasons and not just 1. I did this just to see:

Major League Leaderboards » 2013 » Right Fielders » Fielding Statistics | FanGraphs Baseball

Looks like Cruz comes up 14th in UZR/150... guess who comes in last... Choo- is he a DH and does he need to realize that? I sure hope not. Honestly, I don't trust defensive metrics that much- too many variables, too much room for human error, and some situations such as defensive positioning or ball spin are very difficult to take into account. Granted it might be the best we have though at the moment. It's sort of troubling in some situations where you see someone with a UZR of 0 out of 30 but they are ranked 11th, not 15th.

 

[Windingmywatch]

Think there is plenty of reason for Cruz and Choo to split time at LF and DH.

 

[jta4437]

I respectfully disagree, he's not a DH. If so, why was he playing RF and not DH for us last year? Why is Beltran (the lowest person on the UZR list you linked slated to start in RF for the Yankees?) Or Stanton? Or Cuddyer? Just because they are not the best or even below average doesn't mean they need to be DH's. As a I have said before, sometimes you sacrifice a little defense for some pop. Will be be a DH someday? Sure that's where most power hitters future lies. Also, it's never wise to assume where someones or somethings stats would lie for data that doesn't exist yet.

As for the stats you listed. That's sort of around where you would expect him to be, maybe I would expect slightly higher. Lets not forget here that we are comparing him to only 18 other RF's in this case too. I suppose the other 12 did not qualify for the stat? Where would he rank amongst all RF last season? Also, is a UZR ranking for one season even significant? Even fan graphs notes UZR should be compared for 3 full seasons of defensive data before drawing in conclusions about a players defense from it. So it seems they even suggest you compare it over 3 seasons and not just 1. I did this just to see:

Major League Leaderboards » 2013 » Right Fielders » Fielding Statistics | FanGraphs Baseball

Looks like Cruz comes up 14th in UZR/150... guess who comes in last... Choo- is he a DH and does he need to realize that? I sure hope not. Honestly, I don't trust defensive metrics that much- too many variables, too much room for human error, and some situations such as defensive positioning or ball spin are very difficult to take into account. Granted it might be the best we have though at the moment. It's sort of troubling in some situations where you see someone with a UZR of 0 out of 30 but they are ranked 11th, not 15th.

Its wasn't one season, it was over 3 years, point is, numbers or not, he's a bad defensive RFer

Choo's numbers come from him being misplayed in CF in Cincy at least for last year

Choo's not great or even that great, but he's got the contract now and Cruz doesn't, there's a reason, his other skills

Cruz hits for power and that's about it, yet he doesn't realize he's a one trick pony, and his insistence on playing the field is hurting him more than anything else

 

[jta4437]

Think there is plenty of reason for Cruz and Choo to split time at LF and DH.

I haven't said that shouldn't be the case, Cruz would rotate in the OF with everyone else (minus Martin) if that were the case

 

[DT LUNA]

I haven't said that shouldn't be the case, Cruz would rotate in the OF with everyone else (minus Martin) if that were the case

And then there is MM. JD certainly has options.

 

[donaldson79]

Think there is plenty of reason for Cruz and Choo to split time at LF and DH.

Choo was brought in to be our everyday LF. Barring injury, he'll be out there for 145+.

But I'd still love to see Cruz here on a one year deal, take 25 games in LF, 25 in RF and DH. And he'd be a dependable fill in for longer term if we had injuries.

 

[TheRangerDude]

Its wasn't one season, it was over 3 years, point is, numbers or not, he's a bad defensive RFer

Choo's numbers come from him being misplayed in CF in Cincy at least for last year

Choo's not great or even that great, but he's got the contract now and Cruz doesn't, there's a reason, his other skills

Cruz hits for power and that's about it, yet he doesn't realize he's a one trick pony, and his insistence on playing the field is hurting him more than anything else

I think I am about to give up on this. The stats I posted were for 3 years- yours appeared to just be last seasons- he still appeared in around the same ranks nontheless. Again, lets not forget the list is missing RF's 13 teams.

Also, those numbers for Choo are actually just his numbers just for RF. UZR is calculated by postion. For instance his UZR/150 for the span of 2011-2013 in RF is -9 but his UZR for the span of 2011-2013 in CF is -17. Both the worst of all qualified in that span.

CF:Major League Leaderboards » 2013 » Center Feilders » Fielding Statistics | FanGraphs Baseball

RF:Major League Leaderboards » 2013 » Center Feilders » Fielding Statistics | FanGraphs Baseball

I would say his want to play the field is hurting our situation more his... we don't have a place for him anywhere else.

 

[TheRangerDude]

I see what you mean. You posted the last 5 seasons of Cruz. So, you could say something about Cruz there but I was talking more about the ranking stats you posted. I think in order to compare peoples UZR, you need to look at all the players at the same time over the past 3 seasons. Honestly, to me... it seems like it would be better to normalize it will the number of plays a player received at that position but that's still very sloppy.

 

[Bmurph]

He looks older, I don't know...has there ever been good evidence either way?

The guy is tough all the way around, always been known for it, and if he's out there...he cares.
Puljos is like Beltre, you're going to have to drag those two off the field

I don't think it's been proven that he isn't the age he says he is, just remember there was lots of speculation around it when he was a FA. To lazy to look it up at the moment.....

 

[jta4437]

I'm all for Cruz coming back as long as his contract reflects he is a one trick pony, that's all

 

[Windingmywatch]

These are for more than the last 3 years, thats what I was referring to

Maybe the link dumped the multiple years. What showed was 2013 only.

 

[Windingmywatch]

Here's three year AL only look ... American League Leaderboards » 2013 » Right Fielders » Fielding Statistics | FanGraphs Baseball

 

[jta4437]

Maybe the link dumped the multiple years. What showed was 2013 only.

I was talking about the Cruz numbers

 

[jta4437]

In terms of defensive runs saved, in the last 3 years Cruz was the worst out of the 17 ML RFers that qualified, Choo was 12th

Choo was the worst in the OF, but 17 of his negative runs in runs saved came last year being severely misplayed in CF

Once again, Choo didn't get his contract for his defense, and he's also not a one trick pony

And at the end of the day, Choo already has a contract and Cruz doesn't there's a reason for that