2014 Offseason Plans Thread Pt2

[TheRangerDude]

Is the upgrade worth what they pay in the end? probably not, at least to me

But more power to them

Personally, I think Cruz his worth more than where his market value is right now for the right team. Maybe not for the M's though... just given his history at Safeco.

 

[DT LUNA]

Personally, I think Cruz his worth more than where his market value is right now for the right team. Maybe not for the M's though... just given his history at Safeco.

I think his value is not in the OF no matter the team. DH is where his value is and he is not going to get his asking price to DH only and most teams won't sign him for the OF. Just an opinion.

 

[WastinSomeTime]

Realistically is the Rangers had any interest in Cruz there would be no talk of him going to Seattle. But our interest is not to the point where Cruz would like it to be.

 

[TheRangerDude]

I think his value is not in the OF no matter the team. DH is where his value is and he is not going to get his asking price to DH only and most teams won't sign him for the OF. Just an opinion.

It seems to be a pretty popular opinion too. I respectfully disagree with a lot of the criticism of his defense. While, I will admit Cruz is not a great OF by any standard-many corner OFs are not. I still think he is an average defender... maybe slightly below average but lets not forget he has a great arm. I think his defensive play has been magnified a ton due to one play and because of that some significant exaggerations of his defense have been made since. Also, the corner OF positions are generally places where you might sacrifice a little defense for offensive production.

 

[donaldson79]

I think his value is not in the OF no matter the team. DH is where his value is and he is not going to get his asking price to DH only and most teams won't sign him for the OF. Just an opinion.

So many of ya act as if Nellie's glove is kryptonite to baseballs. It's not IMO. Is he great?, no. But he's not a a terrible OFer either. Do I want him to be out there everyday?, no. But he's quite functional as our backup at both corner positions.

Plus, he and MM would be lethal as a DH combo. Additionally, this gives Choice more time at AAA.

I might be one-of-one, but I'd welcome Cruz back as I've spelled out.

 

[TheRangerDude]

So many of ya act as if Nellie's glove is kryptonite to baseballs. It's not IMO. Is he great?, no. But he's not a a terrible OFer either. Do I want him to be out there everyday?, no. But he's quite functional as our backup at both corner positions.

Plus, he and MM would be lethal as a DH combo. Additionally, this gives Choice more time at AAA.

I might be one-of-one, but I'd welcome Cruz back as I've spelled out.

No reason to be sorry... you added to the conversation nicely and I agree with you.

 

[Windingmywatch]

I'm not sure. I think you are presuming that both are at least interested in one of them. If the Rangers really are interested in either… they have fooled me but it wouldn't be the first time- so you could be right.

That being said, I think the Hart is penciled into the DH and backup 1B, RF role right now. Or at least that is what the current depth chart on mlb.com indicates. So, at least from this, it appears Hart is currently filling Morales' role.

Depth Chart | Mariners.com: Team

The idea for Cruz might just involve replacing Logan Morrison and rotating Hart and Cruz as the DH and RF. Also, Morrison plays 1B, he could be a backup plan if they give up on Smoak. Morales really doesn't play OF and RF at the moment is one of their weaker offensive positions.

I suppose they could just play Hart in RF and then use Morales in the DH role but if I recall correctly Hart has some knee issues or something that might limit him.. so they might not want to keep him on the field all the time.

I think what it would boil down to is you would either have a situation where it would be:
Cruz RF/DH, Hart DH/RF/1B, Smoak 1B
Morales DH/1B, Hart DH/1B/RF, Morrison RF/1B, Smoak 1B

Ahh Dude ... I forgot about Hart. Crap. Morales then must wonder how he gets a job.

 

[donaldson79]

It seems to be a pretty popular opinion too. I respectfully disagree with a lot of the criticism of his defense. While, I will admit Cruz is not a great OF by any standard-many corner OFs are not. I still think he is an average defender... maybe slightly below average but lets not forget he has a great arm. I think his defensive play has been magnified a ton due to one play and because of that some significant exaggerations of his defense have been made since. Also, the corner OF positions are generally places where you might sacrifice a little defense for offensive production.

....If he makes the play in the WS he'd been signed to a long term contract and all would be good with the world. He didn't, and now he's the Darth Vader of OFers.

And your points overall are solid.

 

[DT LUNA]

It seems to be a pretty popular opinion too. I respectfully disagree with a lot of the criticism of his defense. While, I will admit Cruz is not a great OF by any standard-many corner OFs are not. I still think he is an average defender... maybe slightly below average but lets not forget he has a great arm. I think his defensive play has been magnified a ton due to one play and because of that some significant exaggerations of his defense have been made since. Also, the corner OF positions are generally places where you might sacrifice a little defense for offensive production.

I'm not saying he is terrible. I am saying he is not an everyday RF when Rios is on the team. I do believe JD, Wash and most on this board would prefer Rios there on an everyday basis. Sure he can back up and give the guys at the corners a rest but that's not the issue. He is seen as a DH primarily by most and that's why he is still not signed. Would I like to see him back? You can bet your bippy but only as a DH and occasional COF relief guy. Rios has him blocked.

 

[WastinSomeTime]

I think the problem with Cruz and the Rangers is that for now we have the OF covered. I personally do not care if he was the everyday RF if there was a need but there is not. And I cannot see him and MM being a DH combo. Cruz would need to be the DH period which would make it tough for MM to be productive in a part time role. With how our team is structured now having Cruz is like putting a square peg into a round hole. It just does not work. I like Cruz and would love to have him hammering the ball here in Arlington. But to do so we realistically would have to do something then with MM.

 

[DT LUNA]

....If he makes the play in the WS he'd been signed to a long term contract and all would be good with the world. He didn't, and now he's the Darth Vader of O

And your points overall are solid.

Respectfully disagree. The baseball world does not refuse to give a contract because someone errors in a game. Absurd. From the beginning he has been asking to much for a designated hitter and he knew as long as Rios is on the team he would not play OF. Simple as that. Do we need a bat like his? Certainly. Now, if we want another bat, Morales seems to be more fitting as a switch hitter and can back up 1st. Cruz can't. I'm not making this a popular contest b/c I like Cruz but he is a DH on any team who has a solid RF and by the Dude's own words he may be less than average. If he gets back I will be glad to see the boom stick.

 

[DT LUNA]

I think the problem with Cruz and the Rangers is that for now we have the OF covered. I personally do not care if he was the everyday RF if there was a need but there is not. And I cannot see him and MM being a DH combo. Cruz would need to be the DH period which would make it tough for MM to be productive in a part time role. With how our team is structured now having Cruz is like putting a square peg into a round hole. It just does not work. I like Cruz and would love to have him hammering the ball here in Arlington. But to do so we realistically would have to do something then with MM.

Completely agree. Well put.

 

[donaldson79]

Respectfully disagree. The baseball world does not refuse to give a contract because someone errors in a game. Absurd. From the beginning he has been asking to much for a designated hitter and he knew as long as Rios is on the team he would not play OF. Simple as that. Do we need a bat like his? Certainly. Now, if we want another bat, Morales seems to be more fitting as a switch hitter and can back up 1st. Cruz can't. I'm not making this a popular contest b/c I like Cruz but he is a DH on any team who has a solid RF and by the Dude's own words he may be less than average. If he gets back I will be glad to see the boom stick.

DT....that is not what I said at all. Or at least what I meant to say. I did not imply/ir hope not "one play caused the baseball world" one way or the other. I was just speculating on what the Rangers and Nellie might have done.

If this is what I indicated I surrender. But don't think I did.

 

[TheRangerDude]

I'm not saying he is terrible. I am saying he is not an everyday RF when Rios is on the team. I do believe JD, Wash and most on this board would prefer Rios there on an everyday basis. Sure he can back up and give the guys at the corners a rest but that's not the issue. He is seen as a DH primarily by most and that's why he is still not signed. Would I like to see him back? You can bet your bippy but only as a DH and occasional COF relief guy. Rios has him blocked.

I see, I was being more general and considering all teams and not just the Rangers. As of now, if he signed with us for whatever reason (very doubtful), I agree, he would be blocked by both Rios and Choo. He would be the 4th OF and the primary DH as you stated. But, there are still other teams that use him in the OF- I don't think his market is primarily DH, for us it would be but not for all other teams.

I don't think it is his defense that has hurt his market, I think its the PED thing and some of the injury history. I don't think many teams are that interested in committing to him given that if he gets caught with PEDs again they could lose him for 100 games. Also, some (not me) might have fears that his numbers will regress without PEDs. The draft pick doesn't help him too much either.

 

[TheRangerDude]

Ahh Dude ... I forgot about Hart. Crap. Morales then must wonder how he gets a job.

I'm sure someone could use him, I would take him for sure.. I bet he could rake here. Honestly, he is a better fit than Cruz but that draft pick makes it tough. That might be what his hurting him and Cruz the most.

 

[TheRangerDude]

....If he makes the play in the WS he'd been signed to a long term contract and all would be good with the world. He didn't, and now he's the Darth Vader of OFers.

And your points overall are solid.

Thanks!

 

[DT LUNA]

DT....that is not what I said at all. Or at least what I meant to say. I did not imply/ir hope not "one play caused the baseball world" one way or the other. I was just speculating on what the Rangers and Nellie might have done.

If this is what I indicated I surrender. But don't think I did.

Let the jury decide. Not that important anyway.

 

[jta4437]

Major League Leaderboards » 2013 » Right Fielders » Fielding Statistics | FanGraphs Baseball

 

[jta4437]

Major League Leaderboards » 2013 » Right Fielders » Fielding Statistics | FanGraphs Baseball

He's not terrible, but its not going to get any better and its not going to find a better RFer than Cruz, he's a DH and the sooner he realizes that the better

He ranked 14 out of 18 in UZR and 15 out of 18 in UZR/150, 11th in defensive runs saved but also played in 1000 innings less than any of the qualifiers below him or it would've probably been worse

Once again, not terrible, not the worst but he's pretty bad

 

[jta4437]

I'm sure someone could use him, I would take him for sure.. I bet he could rake here. Honestly, he is a better fit than Cruz but that draft pick makes it tough. That might be what his hurting him and Cruz the most.

There is no might about it