2013 MN Twins

[mr.hockey4242]

Hey 42
I'm thinking we could bump bellies about this for many posts to come, but probably neither of us would change our thinking. I have been down this same path, had these exact same "disagreements", with the exact same posts made with others, as I am sure you have as well. Frankly, I am wore out with the topic. I propose this: we simply agree to disagree on the subject and we move on to other stuff. Whaduyasay?

Im open to it. But its Bucky over here that keeps posting asinine things to stir it up again. It's ok for him to reference things to prove his point....but when I point out that the Tigers have no problems beating the Yanks, its simply not valid.

I mean when did I say Gardy was supposed to win with these guys? The reason we have these guys is because our Al Central winning teams were blown up as Gardy simply didnt win.

Canucks fire there coach today. 7 seasons. Lots of good regular season success. Canned.

According to some, he shouldnt be fired he didn't put on the skates.

So why are there coaches in sports? If they simply are not at fault because they don't "play"

Im all for agree/disagree but saying we should lose to the yankees every single game is a disagrace as a fan. Like wtf. Not only do other teams beat them at least once....but for full series. But I shouldnt be pissed that we get swept? I should be content and say "O well, its the Yankees".

Look what they are winning with this year. Half their team is dead. Vernon Wells and Hafner were left for dead.

Maybe Girardi does have a clue?

 

[mr.hockey4242]

The truth is hard to accept, 42, I understand that, believe me. I just happen to love Baseball so much that I watch regardless if the Twins win or lose but I don't let it control me. If the Twins lose, oh well!! If they win, yippee!!

This is where we differ. I too love baseball and the Twins but there will never come a time where I am content with losing. I mean seriously? O well? I'll watch all season long when I am able to even if were in last....doesn't mean I am going to be proud to just watch.

 

[Nosferatu]

I don't think getting down on the club or the manager makes us any less fans than anyone else, honestly I would argue the opposite is true, why should we as fans have to accept losing? I don't understand the ho hum thinking, I think most Twins fans will watch even if they continue to lose but we should also be able to share our opinions and voice our anger at the way things are, Gardy should have been let go years ago in my opinion, he has not won squat since taking over for TK, I can't think of another team that keeps a coach around for 10+ years even when said coach has won absolutely nothing. Can anyone else name a coach thats been around as long as Gardy has without winning anything?

 

[powerchord86]

Problem with Deduno is he's no longer on the 40 man roster. I think it may be DeVries that we are waiting on if Worley or Pelfrey or really anyone don't figure it out.

We already knew Deduno was coming up. The question now becomes will another start be up soon? Worely being demoted still leaves us with just 4 guys. Pelfrey, Corriea, Deduno and Diamond.

It really is time to see what Gibson is made of.

:rollseyes:

 

[buckamania]

This is where we differ. I too love baseball and the Twins but there will never come a time where I am content with losing. I mean seriously? O well? I'll watch all season long when I am able to even if were in last....doesn't mean I am going to be proud to just watch.

Amen to that, 42! I agree with you 100%, watching a loser is intolerable to lots of people but the Cubs fans still love their "Cubbies" and show up in the millions every year. At least we Twins fans get a bone tossed to us every once in a while. Gives me hope, anyways. I just don't beat my kids when they lose.

Buttttt, you and I have beat that horse into the ground and I thoroughly enjoyed exchanging thoughts and opinions with you about a very touchy subject named Gardy. I see this discussion most every day, either here or on Fox. Where there's smoke, there's fire. Gardy should be dismissed soon, one would surmise. I actually predicted this last year but he somehow missed the axe. We'll see soon enough on Gardy.

What if Ryan decides to retire again? Now the Pohlads would have no manager and no GM and no clue about the business their Dad gave them. No Bueuno!

 

[buckamania]

I don't think getting down on the club or the manager makes us any less fans than anyone else, honestly I would argue the opposite is true, why should we as fans have to accept losing? I don't understand the ho hum thinking, I think most Twins fans will watch even if they continue to lose but we should also be able to share our opinions and voice our anger at the way things are, Gardy should have been let go years ago in my opinion, he has not won squat since taking over for TK, I can't think of another team that keeps a coach around for 10+ years even when said coach has won absolutely nothing. Can anyone else name a coach thats been around as long as Gardy has without winning anything?

"Dick Head" aka Richard Cranium....excellent introduction!

The USS Gardy has sailed into hostile waters for the last time, I fear, and will not be coming back. Such is the fate of most managers, anyways. Didn't he win some division titles? That counts for something, and is certainly more than nothing, one would think. As I said to 42 earlier, "We've beaten that horse to death, time to move on." The current Twins problems go way, way, deeper than Gardy, but as every year goes by maybe the Pohlad boys will finally come to understand this business of theirs and finally put all the pieces together. Meanwhile, I just watch and wait.

 

[jrs21]

I'm in agreement with Bucky on this one. Owners are the Twins bigggest problem. You don't send a carpenter out with to build a house with half the necessary tools in his bag and expect a quality product built. The Twins have a lot of low quality, dull, knock-off, tools that nobody else wanted. On the other hand there are some new tools that are being polished (thats polished, not Polish-ed Buck!) as we speak and hopefully they will perform. Lets get 'em up here to see what they can do!

 

[jrs21]

On the flip side of this Gardy topic. Gardy wasn't offered a contract renewal in the offseason, but does he even want one? There has to come a point where he becomes tired of all this BS and looks for greener pastures. The Dodgers spend like drunken sailors and will be in need of a manager very soon.
Speaking of greener pastures, the grounds crew at T.F. is re-sodding the path from the dugout to the mound because it turned brown and died from all the traffic back and forth.

 

[BigDDude]

It was on this date back in 1991 that Kirby Puckett strokes five singles and a triple in the Twins' 10-6 loss to Texas at the Metrodome. It is the second time the outfielder has collected six hits in a game, making him the first major leaguer to have accomplished the feat twice.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

:rollseyes:

Have to look at the date when I posted. Both were right. Deduno needed to be added. But we have known for a few days that he was going to be the pitcher selected with Mastro being transferred to DL. Twins announced it like 3 days ago. Not my fault it was finally brought up here yesterday.

Last thing on the whole Gardy thing. I agree completely management needs some fault. Bill Smith was dreadful. Terry Ryan has made wise moves but still doesn't spend. It ticks me off the only money we have spent is on the two home grown M & M boys. Why not take a chance and offer a big time FA? Or try and make a huge deadline deal all those years when in contention? Sure, sometimes the small move(Shannon Stewart) works. But a lot fail badly. So I agree management needs accountability.

I gave Gardy loads of credit especially 02-04. But then our teams started getting better(at least in terms of in our divison) and titles were expected. 2011 turned into an absolute tank and we have been bad since. That couple with no post season success just makes me believe that us and Gardy need new directions. Maybe he needs a new place as well?

Anyways. Just the final thought. It's an argument that has many people on both sides. Actually what makes it enjoyable since you can look at it so many ways.

 

[jrs21]

Have to look at the date when I posted. Both were right. Deduno needed to be added. But we have known for a few days that he was going to be the pitcher selected with Mastro being transferred to DL. Twins announced it like 3 days ago. Not my fault it was finally brought up here yesterday.

Last thing on the whole Gardy thing. I agree completely management needs some fault. Bill Smith was dreadful. Terry Ryan has made wise moves but still doesn't spend. It ticks me off the only money we have spent is on the two home grown M & M boys. Why not take a chance and offer a big time FA? Or try and make a huge deadline deal all those years when in contention? Sure, sometimes the small move(Shannon Stewart) works. But a lot fail badly. So I agree management needs accountability.

I gave Gardy loads of credit especially 02-04. But then our teams started getting better(at least in terms of in our divison) and titles were expected. 2011 turned into an absolute tank and we have been bad since. That couple with no post season success just makes me believe that us and Gardy need new directions. Maybe he needs a new place as well?

Anyways. Just the final thought. It's an argument that has many people on both sides. Actually what makes it enjoyable since you can look at it so many ways.

Hey 42
Yeah, the billy smith era was a definate setback. Ryan has made enough quality moves and signings with his shoestring budget as well as build/maintain a strong farm system that I think that he has done a decent job.
I don't mind the Gardy debate, it just always seems to get really ugly which drove me out of Fox. So far the SportsHoopla, for the most part has been a relief for me with guys that actually want to talk baseball or whatever.
Hopefully you guys stick around because there have only been a few of us here and we need some fresh blood to liven the Twins page up a bit! I am sure PC is tired of me by now, and I know that Buck has more than his fill of jrs21's Bullshit!

 

[buckamania]

Have to look at the date when I posted. Both were right. Deduno needed to be added. But we have known for a few days that he was going to be the pitcher selected with Mastro being transferred to DL. Twins announced it like 3 days ago. Not my fault it was finally brought up here yesterday.

Last thing on the whole Gardy thing. I agree completely management needs some fault. Bill Smith was dreadful. Terry Ryan has made wise moves but still doesn't spend. It ticks me off the only money we have spent is on the two home grown M & M boys. Why not take a chance and offer a big time FA? Or try and make a huge deadline deal all those years when in contention? Sure, sometimes the small move(Shannon Stewart) works. But a lot fail badly. So I agree management needs accountability.

I gave Gardy loads of credit especially 02-04. But then our teams started getting better(at least in terms of in our divison) and titles were expected. 2011 turned into an absolute tank and we have been bad since. That couple with no post season success just makes me believe that us and Gardy need new directions. Maybe he needs a new place as well?

Anyways. Just the final thought. It's an argument that has many people on both sides. Actually what makes it enjoyable since you can look at it so many ways.

Once again, Amen, amen! Gardy is great copy, no doubt!

I'm not totally down on the hitters, not yet, anyways. I'd like to give Plouffe, Parmalee, & Doumit at least 2-yrs. of everyday play to see if they can break-out of the pack. Plouffe's glove scares me, though. That can't be fixed, either you can catch it or you can't. I know, I had that problem. I did catch crabs in college, though, which many others were unable to do, so maybe I wasn't that bad of a fielder after-all!

 

[buckamania]

Hey 42
Yeah, the billy smith era was a definate setback. Ryan has made enough quality moves and signings with his shoestring budget as well as build/maintain a strong farm system that I think that he has done a decent job.
I don't mind the Gardy debate, it just always seems to get really ugly which drove me out of Fox. So far the SportsHoopla, for the most part has been a relief for me with guys that actually want to talk baseball or whatever.
Hopefully you guys stick around because there have only been a few of us here and we need some fresh blood to liven the Twins page up a bit! I am sure PC is tired of me by now, and I know that Buck has more than his fill of jrs21's Bullshit!

Speaking of PC, where is that boy?? I 'Spose I peed him off again, as usual.

No way have you ever bored me or peed me off. This is just discussion to me. It would be more fun if we all were season ticket holders lounging in our seats sipping "chilly-ones", but it sure works for now. To everyone reading this post, jrs knows that I periodically take a moment to apologize to everyone if my ranting has peed you off...that is certainly not my intent. Now is a good time to do it here on SportsHoopla as we have new guys on board.

The big problem with posting is that you can't see the other person's face which would give you clues if he's joking with you, or jerking your chain, etc. Another big problem is that you can't soften the tone of your post as easily as you can talking to someone. My posts often sound as if I'm yelling at you, which I, most assuredly, am not.

The big plus in posting is never seeing the other guy so it's easier to jerk his chain a little to create some mirth. That I love to do, but only in fun.

Anyways, there's my apology, you'll see it again in a few months, as I like and respect all of you and don't want to lose my welcome here.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Once again, Amen, amen! Gardy is great copy, no doubt!

I'm not totally down on the hitters, not yet, anyways. I'd like to give Plouffe, Parmalee, & Doumit at least 2-yrs. of everyday play to see if they can break-out of the pack. Plouffe's glove scares me, though. That can't be fixed, either you can catch it or you can't. I know, I had that problem. I did catch crabs in college, though, which many others were unable to do, so maybe I wasn't that bad of a fielder after-all!

First off, sorry about the crabs. I agree, Parm still needs time. He definitely has potential but I think 1B is his spot and Morny is still there. That's why if Justin continues to hit, I say we see what his value becomes. Doumit is older and not a future foundation. I want him more a strictly back up guy. Let Hicks, Arcia(him especially) and Parm get their cuts. Plouffe isn't very good but at least as started to drive in some runs. Last year he was solo bomb or nothing. We need someone to hold down the fort til Sano's defense is ready. I am stoked for that guy.

I don't totally know where I fall amongst this group but I am still very encouraged with Aaron Hicks. He has struggled to hit so far but it hasn't even been two big league months for the kid and the best thing is his discipline. He has a good deal of that for a young guy. His problem right now is fouling off the ball when he gets that meat ball. That should come.

It really is the starters I'm lost with. Diamond was probably a little fluke last year, but also probably just in a rough stretch now. Somewhere in between(good 4ish starter). Gibson simply needs to be up here. The guy is going to be 40 soon LOL(exaggeration I know.). I hope May and Meyer work out as they have great stuff and are for once power arms. Deduno if he harnesses control can be good. I don't want to give up on Hendricks.

I just hate the yearly merry go round of guys like Ramon Ortiz, Sidney Ponson, Jason Marquis, Mike Pelfrey etc... Either try and make a good FA splash or see what the system can bring. This process is getting long, tiresome and ridiculous.

2015ish the bats should be fully ready. Can the pitching catch up? If so, this organization could be back on the fast track.

 

[buckamania]

On the flip side of this Gardy topic. Gardy wasn't offered a contract renewal in the offseason, but does he even want one? There has to come a point where he becomes tired of all this BS and looks for greener pastures. The Dodgers spend like drunken sailors and will be in need of a manager very soon.
Speaking of greener pastures, the grounds crew at T.F. is re-sodding the path from the dugout to the mound because it turned brown and died from all the traffic back and forth.

Gardy has to go sooner, or later, we all do. I just hope they set him down easy. He put up with a lot of BS and always stayed loyal to the organization.

The Dodgers have major ownership issues too. Magic Johnson as an owner?? Yikes...why not Dennis Rodman too?? That Dodgers team has turned into a reality TV series lately. Last couple years it was that ding-bat husband and wife divorce and MLB stepping in to boot them out of the League. What a come-down to a storied franchise! It works in L.A. I 'spose because that whole town is a soap-opera.

As much as people hated Geo. Steinbrenner, he delivered....boy did he deliver!! He was a financial-genius and had a killer-instinct to boot. He "willed" some of those teams to championships but he also destroyed some careers. I'd rather be a fan of his team than to work for him....whoaaa, Nellie! Ownership makes all the difference in winning, I'm totally convinced of this.

 

[jrs21]

Speaking of PC, where is that boy?? I 'Spose I peed him off again, as usual.

No way have you ever bored me or peed me off. This is just discussion to me. It would be more fun if we all were season ticket holders lounging in our seats sipping "chilly-ones", but it sure works for now. To everyone reading this post, jrs knows that I periodically take a moment to apologize to everyone if my ranting has peed you off...that is certainly not my intent. Now is a good time to do it here on SportsHoopla as we have new guys on board.

The big problem with posting is that you can't see the other person's face which would give you clues if he's joking with you, or jerking your chain, etc. Another big problem is that you can't soften the tone of your post as easily as you can talking to someone. My posts often sound as if I'm yelling at you, which I, most assuredly, am not.

The big plus in posting is never seeing the other guy so it's easier to jerk his chain a little to create some mirth. That I love to do, but only in fun.

Anyways, there's my apology, you'll see it again in a few months, as I like and respect all of you and don't want to lose my welcome here.

Hey Buck
I'm sure PC has a lot on his plate also, with the new baby and all. He'll be back!
I'm heading out to Leech and Winni for fishing trip Fri. through Mon., so its all on you guys to figure out how to fix this Twins mess this weekend!

First off, sorry about the crabs. I agree, Parm still needs time. He definitely has potential but I think 1B is his spot and Morny is still there. That's why if Justin continues to hit, I say we see what his value becomes. Doumit is older and not a future foundation. I want him more a strictly back up guy. Let Hicks, Arcia(him especially) and Parm get their cuts. Plouffe isn't very good but at least as started to drive in some runs. Last year he was solo bomb or nothing. We need someone to hold down the fort til Sano's defense is ready. I am stoked for that guy.

I don't totally know where I fall amongst this group but I am still very encouraged with Aaron Hicks. He has struggled to hit so far but it hasn't even been two big league months for the kid and the best thing is his discipline. He has a good deal of that for a young guy. His problem right now is fouling off the ball when he gets that meat ball. That should come.

It really is the starters I'm lost with. Diamond was probably a little fluke last year, but also probably just in a rough stretch now. Somewhere in between(good 4ish starter). Gibson simply needs to be up here. The guy is going to be 40 soon LOL(exaggeration I know.). I hope May and Meyer work out as they have great stuff and are for once power arms. Deduno if he harnesses control can be good. I don't want to give up on Hendricks.

I just hate the yearly merry go round of guys like Ramon Ortiz, Sidney Ponson, Jason Marquis, Mike Pelfrey etc... Either try and make a good FA splash or see what the system can bring. This process is getting long, tiresome and ridiculous.

2015ish the bats should be fully ready. Can the pitching catch up? If so, this organization could be back on the fast track.

I like the 2015 optimism! Ugh, almost 2 more seasons of this?.....Whatever, at least there's hope right?
I couldn't agree more on the "merry go round" of old washed up rag arms. ENOUGH OF THAT ALREADY! If they insist on continuing this, give these guys incentive based contracts: Win 15 games give 'em 10 million, if they continue to suck: league minimum.
I have always been of the belief that young guys need to be given time to prove themselves at the major league level. Hopefully Hicks can get it together, at this point with the Twins being where they are, I am fine with letting him try to work it out and make adjustments. Arcia, same thing; we have seen more flashes of his potential thus far. It's time for Gibson to be up here and have the rest of the season to pitch in the majors. What the heck bring Sano up for a look-see as well. To me that's what this season should be about if they are serious about re-building. Even if we continue losing, at least that would be worth watching.

 

[jrs21]

I'm sure you guys have noticed Liriano.
He's only made 3 starts, and it is against NL teams that haven't seen him much if at all, so take it for what its worth:
3-0 record, 18 IP, 25 K's, 6 BB, 1.00 ERA.

 

[Iffster]

No smack.....just found this interesting....

#Tigers' Cabrera hitting .469 with 6 HR and 12 RBIs during 8-game hit streak. His 26 career HRs vs. #Twins are his 2nd-most vs. any team.

8-16 against Diamond.

It worries me that the Twins are on a major losing streak....they could break out at any time. And they play Tigers well (at times).

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Hey Buck
I'm sure PC has a lot on his plate also, with the new baby and all. He'll be back!
I'm heading out to Leech and Winni for fishing trip Fri. through Mon., so its all on you guys to figure out how to fix this Twins mess this weekend!



I like the 2015 optimism! Ugh, almost 2 more seasons of this?.....Whatever, at least there's hope right?
I couldn't agree more on the "merry go round" of old washed up rag arms. ENOUGH OF THAT ALREADY! If they insist on continuing this, give these guys incentive based contracts: Win 15 games give 'em 10 million, if they continue to suck: league minimum.
I have always been of the belief that young guys need to be given time to prove themselves at the major league level. Hopefully Hicks can get it together, at this point with the Twins being where they are, I am fine with letting him try to work it out and make adjustments. Arcia, same thing; we have seen more flashes of his potential thus far. It's time for Gibson to be up here and have the rest of the season to pitch in the majors. What the heck bring Sano up for a look-see as well. To me that's what this season should be about if they are serious about re-building. Even if we continue losing, at least that would be worth watching.

Yup exactly. Arcia actually really impresses me. He could use a little more discipline but the kid can hit. It was said best after his homer yesterday. The quicker he learns to lay off the junk down and away and realize he mashes that low and inside pitch......uh oh. Potential stud.

1 thing on Sano. I obviously would never be against his promotion but sometimes with guys like him and Buxton(far less pro experience too) is jumping them too quickly halts development if they can't adjust. Sano is also a hack with the glove but improving. He absolutely needs that AA promotion very soon though. Dougy M the A ball manager has said he believes it will come soon and thinks it should have possibly happened already. Let these guys do AA ball for at least a bit but I agree sooner than later give them a shot. I think Harper, Trout and Machado are starting a movement. If the talent is there.....let's see what they got.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

This is where my frusteration starts to come in. The inconsistent lineups that Gardy(sorry to be back on it) does. Dozier is pure garbage I think everyone knows that, but until recently he kept him in the lineup...at leadoff. Carroll started getting AB's. But with Plouffe down someone has to play 3rd. So, now Dozier back in and batting 7th??? the guy hasn't been hitting the broad side of the barn at least put him 9th. He doesn't walk either. Put Florimon actually driving in runs up there. Or Hicks who at least has started to walk.

Back more on point. Inconsistent lineups. Doumit has been virtually terrible this year. Started to lose PT(Great move Gardy) but has a good two games vs Boston and literally doesn't sit. Now Arcia(actual future of the organization) sits for a 4th straight game. Hard to get in rhythmn. Parmelee hasn't been allowed to work through his struggles and has started seen more bench time....now hes back in but Arcia still out.

Basically it's the same problem we have had in recent years. Musical chairs due to letting veterans(who are not that great and not going to help our future) play and not developing a consistent lineup. That is how losing streaks happen.

Doumit should be a back up to Mauer. He's not a right fielder for gods sake.

What makes the least amount of sense is recently before interleague play Arcia as sat a lot of games vs RIGHTIES...he's a LEFTY. Theres the match up. Doumit is a better right handed hitter...so is hicks.

So if you're going to be inconsistent...at least play some match ups. I guess ryan is 4/10 vs Porcello?

Sorry for the rant just want it consistent and roll with 1 lineup.

Carroll(really need to think about rosario getting promotions)
Mauer
Willy
Morney
Plouffe(Arcia when plouffe out)
Arcia(Parm)
Parm(Hicks)
Hicks(Dozier)
Florimon

As you see the parenthesis are temporary while Trevor is out. But keep it CONSISTENT. If Parm can't figure it out. Send him down. Doumit become more than a back up.

Just my thought/rant. I've complained on CBS for years with our lack of keeping a real lineup like most teams.