2013 Deutsche Bank Championship Thread

[ATL96Steeler]

Why do I have to watch Woods struggling to make par and 17 strokes behind and all I get to see of Speith's birdie, birdie, birdie, eagle finish was a highlight of his eagle putt. Its awful.

It is awful...they don't give Tiger that kind of coverage on the Euro tour...they show the players in contention or a super hot round...the star players out of contention they show putting out on 18.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

It is awful...they don't give Tiger that kind of coverage on the Euro tour...they show the players in contention or a super hot round...the star players out of contention they show putting out on 18.

In the end it is all based on ratings. If the ratings reveal that Tiger's meltdown resulted in fewer viewers then they will show him less in the future if he is out of contention. That is very possible if he continues to struggle during the two remaining FedEx events.

You need to remember that both of you are diehard golfers & purists. A lot of the TV audience does not fit that mold & do not view the events in the same manner. If you watch closely you will notice that Golf Channel coverage is different than network TV coverage. This is primarily due to that fact that Golf Channel viewers probably consist of a lot of diehard golfers who like seeing any number of golfers.

A lot could change if someone else steps up over the next several years - we will see.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

In the end it is all based on ratings. If the ratings reveal that Tiger's meltdown resulted in fewer viewers then they will show him less in the future if he is out of contention. That is very possible if he continues to struggle during the two remaining FedEx events.

You need to remember that both of you are diehard golfers & purists. A lot of the TV audience does not fit that mold & do not view the events in the same manner. If you watch closely you will notice that Golf Channel coverage is different than network TV coverage. This is primarily due to that fact that Golf Channel viewers probably consist of a lot of diehard golfers who like seeing any number of golfers.

A lot could change if someone else steps up over the next several years - we will see.

Ratings...very true in any sport...that's exactly why the Cleveland Browns (no offense Browns fans) are not on MNF very often. Networks can charge more or sustain their advertising rates based on program ratings. Tiger made more money for everyone involved with televised golf...that part I get and really have no problem with.

But...in a tournament finishing with Tiger out of the mix...how many fringe fans are really watching?

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Ratings...very true in any sport...that's exactly why the Cleveland Browns (no offense Browns fans) are not on MNF very often. Networks can charge more or sustain their advertising rates based on program ratings. Tiger made more money for everyone involved with televised golf...that part I get and really have no problem with.

But...in a tournament finishing with Tiger out of the mix...how many fringe fans are really watching?

No - you are correct & I stated as much previously. If Tiger continues to fade in the next tourney I don't think we will see a repeat of this (actually this will occur on a football weekend so not many people may care anyhow).

 

[ATL96Steeler]

No - you are correct & I stated as much previously. If Tiger continues to fade in the next tourney I don't think we will see a repeat of this (actually this will occur on a football weekend so not many people may care anyhow).

I think we're on the same page...if his regular tournament winning drought were as long as his major drought has been, then I think the networks would be backing off showing every Tiger shot when he's out of contention.

But, Tiger won 5 times this year...I think the networks are going to keep riding him until he can't deliver anymore which won't happen until he hits a long skid...With every win, he's a step closer to a record of some kind...fringe golf fans will tune in.

 

[TobyTyler]

Good point. Regardless of talent - I believe that there are two reasons that many fall short - work ethic & the inability to handle the pressure especially in the final round. That is why - assuming that he has a good work ethic - that I believe that this kid Spieth has a very promising future - he appears to have ice water in his veins.

Seems like a very nice young man too; respectful of the game.

 

[bsanko]

I think we're on the same page...if his regular tournament winning drought were as long as his major drought has been, then I think the networks would be backing off showing every Tiger shot when he's out of contention.

But, Tiger won 5 times this year...I think the networks are going to keep riding him until he can't deliver anymore which won't happen until he hits a long skid...With every win, he's a step closer to a record of some kind...fringe golf fans will tune in.

Tiger won Player of the Month award today edging Jason Dufner. We all will continue to see him play regardless of how well he plays.

 

[TobyTyler]

Tiger won Player of the Month award today edging Jason Dufner. We all will continue to see him play regardless of how well he plays.

But he didn't win a Major. I'm sure Dufner is more than happy to have the Major and to let Woods have a worthless player of the month award.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

But he didn't win a Major. I'm sure Dufner is more than happy to have the Major and to let Woods have a worthless player of the month award.

I never thought I would agree with him on this but maybe Sergio has the right approach to majors...go, play the best I can, live with the results...he doesn't seem like he's taking it (lack of winning a major) home.

I kinda think Dufner would be exactly the same guy...with or without his major win.

I think the media has blown these 4 events up so big that someone said Tiger would take Scott's year over his own...I love to win a major, but no way I wouldn't trade 5 tour wins for a major...If Tiger is that hard up for a major that he would trade 5 wins for 2, then I feel pretty good about saying he won't get to 19...it might kill him.

 

[TobyTyler]

I never thought I would agree with him on this but maybe Sergio has the right approach to majors...go, play the best I can, live with the results...he doesn't seem like he's taking it (lack of winning a major) home.

I kinda think Dufner would be exactly the same guy...with or without his major win.

I think the media has blown these 4 events up so big that someone said Tiger would take Scott's year over his own...I love to win a major, but no way I wouldn't trade 5 tour wins for a major...If Tiger is that hard up for a major that he would trade 5 wins for 2, then I feel pretty good about saying he won't get to 19...it might kill him.

I definitely would. I'd give away my first born for a Masters title. No one is going to remember who won the 2012 Honda two years from now but 20 years from now, maybe longer, they'll remmber that Scott won the Masters or Bubba Watson last year. Those are part of history. No one cares what happens at the others. I'm actually stunned to hear you say that.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I definitely would. I'd give away my first born for a Masters title. No one is going to remember who won the 2012 Honda two years from now but 20 years from now, maybe longer, they'll remmber that Scott won the Masters or Bubba Watson last year. Those are part of history. No one cares what happens at the others. I'm actually stunned to hear you say that.

I get your point, and don't get me wrong...I'm not saying majors are not a big deal, but every PGAT event is history even if it changes names or the event ceases to exist...if I was asked who won the Masters in 1972...I love the Masters and I couldn't tell you w/o looking it up...I would guess Player, but idk for certain.

Most of these young golf fans have no clue who Andy North is and they don't really give a crap that he won 2 USO. Whose career would you take...North's or Couples'? Sergio or Paul Lawrie? I would take Couples and Sergio...no question.

I heard Snead interviewed a few years ago and I recall him saying that majors were different even back in his day, but they weren't anything like they are now. I know you remember there was a time when American pros didn't bother to play the British, even with it major wrapping.

I'm sure to be in the minority on this but yes, I think majors are overblown to some degree. When the media can make a player like Lee Westwood, or Steve Stricker feel as if their career NEEDS a major to be complete, it's overblown.

 

[TobyTyler]

I get your point, and don't get me wrong...I'm not saying majors are not a big deal, but every PGAT event is history even if it changes names or the event ceases to exist...if I was asked who won the Masters in 1972...I love the Masters and I couldn't tell you w/o looking it up...I would guess Player, but idk for certain.

Most of these young golf fans have no clue who Andy North is and they don't really give a crap that he won 2 USO. Whose career would you take...North's or Couples'? Sergio or Paul Lawrie? I would take Couples and Sergio...no question.

I heard Snead interviewed a few years ago and I recall him saying that majors were different even back in his day, but they weren't anything like they are now. I know you remember there was a time when American pros didn't bother to play the British, even with it major wrapping.

I'm sure to be in the minority on this but yes, I think majors are overblown to some degree. When the media can make a player like Lee Westwood, or Steve Stricker feel as if their career NEEDS a major to be complete, it's overblown.

OK I'd love to win any tournament but comparing the Honda to the Masters is like comparing Abe Lincoln to Millard Fillmore or Franklin Roosevelt to Martin Van Buren. They are all Presidents but they are not all the same. I bet if you asked any touring pro what they would most like to do in their career they'd say "Win a Major". As for Couples, he won the Masters and I would much rather have North's resume than Garcia's. North was an excellent player whose career was derailed by injury but I guarantee you he's much more respected among golf professionals than Garcia is.

I would not mind at all having Stricker, Garcia or Westwood's career though. As I said before, I'd give my left nut to have the title "Best player never to win a Major".

 

[ATL96Steeler]

OK I'd love to win any tournament but comparing the Honda to the Masters is like comparing Abe Lincoln to Millard Fillmore or Franklin Roosevelt to Martin Van Buren. They are all Presidents but they are not all the same. I bet if you asked any touring pro what they would most like to do in their career they'd say "Win a Major". As for Couples, he won the Masters and I would much rather have North's resume than Garcia's. North was an excellent player whose career was derailed by injury but I guarantee you he's much more respected among golf professionals than Garcia is.

I would not mind at all having Stricker, Garcia or Westwood's career though. As I said before, I'd give my left nut to have the title "Best player never to win a Major".

North - Garcia...I agree that most touring pros or people associated with the PGAT probably respect North more than Garcia...I would attribute that more to Mr. North being a real professional and Sergio in some circles is considered a punk.

I mentioned Freddie because he won only one major and North has 2 and not much else.

My point here is not so much with majors...it's the way the media has elevated the status of them. That's why a young player will say "win a major" as you mentioned. I can name a half dz guys that lucked up and won a major and little else, for sake of the conversation (Shaun Micheel) ...then you look at player like my least favorite guy Scott Hoch...won 11 PGAT events, but missed a 1' putt and missed out on a major. He was light years better than Micheel...maybe he would but he doesn't seem like the type that would trade his career for Micheel's, just to have a major.

 

[TobyTyler]

North - Garcia...I agree that most touring pros or people associated with the PGAT probably respect North more than Garcia...I would attribute that more to Mr. North being a real professional and Sergio in some circles is considered a punk.

I mentioned Freddie because he won only one major and North has 2 and not much else.

My point here is not so much with majors...it's the way the media has elevated the status of them. That's why a young player will say "win a major" as you mentioned. I can name a half dz guys that lucked up and won a major and little else, for sake of the conversation (Shaun Micheel) ...then you look at player like my least favorite guy Scott Hoch...won 11 PGAT events, but missed a 1' putt and missed out on a major. He was light years better than Micheel...maybe he would but he doesn't seem like the type that would trade his career for Micheel's, just to have a major.

Ha ha! Its amazing how that 3 footer has shrunk to become a 1 footer over the years. I've heard that Hoch was disliked by his fellow pros as well. You are right, guys have lucked up and won one Major and that is why the benchmark for me is 2 Majors. Couples is way over-rated inmy opinion. I think he had 15 wins and 1 Major but is in the Hall of Fame while Mark O'Meara won 24 tournaments, 2 Majors and a U.S. Amateur but never gets a mention.

I think the players always valued the Majors over the years whether it was the days when the two Opens and the two Amateurs were the Majors or today's Majors. I'm not sure these were created by the press.

 

[bsanko]

Some good points. I look at what Curtis Strange and Peter Jacobsen has done on the PGA and look at them now. The only thing people remember about Curtis is his 2 US Open wins and Peter battling cancer. Who remembers Peter's golf line, Powerbilt golf clubs?

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Ha ha! Its amazing how that 3 footer has shrunk to become a 1 footer over the years. I've heard that Hoch was disliked by his fellow pros as well. You are right, guys have lucked up and won one Major and that is why the benchmark for me is 2 Majors. Couples is way over-rated inmy opinion. I think he had 15 wins and 1 Major but is in the Hall of Fame while Mark O'Meara won 24 tournaments, 2 Majors and a U.S. Amateur but never gets a mention.

I think the players always valued the Majors over the years whether it was the days when the two Opens and the two Amateurs were the Majors or today's Majors. I'm not sure these were created by the press.

3'...was it really that long? Ok...I embellished a little for drama...lol...point was this guy was a player that tour guys respect a lot, made a ton of money out there, but never a major winner.

2 majors...yes, repeating a major win plus some other tour wins, now you have my attention. Lee Janzen is one of those kind of guys. Now...put his PGAT career up against Scott Hoch.

Hoch - 11 wins, 0 majors, 163 top 10s, $18.5 mil
Janzen - 8 wins, 2 majors, 66 top 10s, $15.9 mil

I'm not saying I would take Hoch's career over Janzen's but I would argue that Hoch was a better player over his career inspite of not winning a major.

Freddie...my favorite player on tour, but I agree...Couples has been over rated for a long time, but he's been sort of the golden boy, highly visible with his endorsements...His HOF induction was probably helped by his President Cup captain success.

A closer look at their PGAT #s.

Couples 15 wins/1 major/162 top 10s/$22.4 mil...I will add that he did reach world #1 ranking and at one time was clearly the best player on tour. Him getting in pretty much locks it up for DL3.

O'Meara 16 wins/2 majors/119 top 10s/$14.1mil...had the 2 majors in one year and was POTY I think that year over Tiger.

I know they also look at worldwide wins, team play etc....based on this I would have to think O'Meara will eventually get in. IMO he just needs a team captain job and a win to boost him up a little.

 

[TobyTyler]

3'...was it really that long? Ok...I embellished a little for drama...lol...point was this guy was a player that tour guys respect a lot, made a ton of money out there, but never a major winner.

2 majors...yes, repeating a major win plus some other tour wins, now you have my attention. Lee Janzen is one of those kind of guys. Now...put his PGAT career up against Scott Hoch.

Hoch - 11 wins, 0 majors, 163 top 10s, $18.5 mil
Janzen - 8 wins, 2 majors, 66 top 10s, $15.9 mil

I'm not saying I would take Hoch's career over Janzen's but I would argue that Hoch was a better player over his career inspite of not winning a major.

Freddie...my favorite player on tour, but I agree...Couples has been over rated for a long time, but he's been sort of the golden boy, highly visible with his endorsements...His HOF induction was probably helped by his President Cup captain success.

A closer look at their PGAT #s.

Couples 15 wins/1 major/162 top 10s/$22.4 mil...I will add that he did reach world #1 ranking and at one time was clearly the best player on tour. Him getting in pretty much locks it up for DL3.

O'Meara 16 wins/2 majors/119 top 10s/$14.1mil...had the 2 majors in one year and was POTY I think that year over Tiger.

I know they also look at worldwide wins, team play etc....based on this I would have to think O'Meara will eventually get in. IMO he just needs a team captain job and a win to boost him up a little.

I believe the accurate length was 2' 10". Still, a putt he should have made. U.S. Open winners have always been a little suspect to me. It seems to require hitting the ball in the fairway and two putting and for some reason that is not impressive to me. Now, if you win it twice, that's a little different. As for O'Meara, I'd always heard that he had 24 wins and I love the fact that he won a U.S. Amateur. I agree about Couples. I love to watch him play and I always root for him.

No tournament this week; bummer!

 

[ATL96Steeler]

Some good points. I look at what Curtis Strange and Peter Jacobsen has done on the PGA and look at them now. The only thing people remember about Curtis is his 2 US Open wins and Peter battling cancer. Who remembers Peter's golf line, Powerbilt golf clubs?

Yea...In addition to his majors, Strange won a lot more than Jacobsen did though...far more accomplished player. I do remember the Powrbilt brand.

 

[ATL96Steeler]

I believe the accurate length was 2' 10". Still, a putt he should have made. U.S. Open winners have always been a little suspect to me. It seems to require hitting the ball in the fairway and two putting and for some reason that is not impressive to me. Now, if you win it twice, that's a little different. As for O'Meara, I'd always heard that he had 24 wins and I love the fact that he won a U.S. Amateur. I agree about Couples. I love to watch him play and I always root for him.

No tournament this week; bummer!

USO...I know its our national open, but I kind of feel the same way...While I do think the guy that wins it earned it, but sometimes that player is nowhere close to being the best player in the field...like Steve Jones...didn't he win one?

O'Meara...I wasn't sure so I looked on the PGAT site...16 tour wins is what they have listed...24 he should definitely be in.

Golf...well I'll be playing myself Sat. and gearing up for NFL on Sunday anyway.

 

[TobyTyler]

Yea...In addition to his majors, Strange won a lot more than Jacobsen did though...far more accomplished player. I do remember the Powrbilt brand.

The thing I remember most about Peter Jacobson was his spot on imitations of players' various swings. His Arnold Palmer and Craig Stadler are funny as hell!