Series Thread: 2) Cleveland Cavaliers vs 7) Indiana Pacers

[knowyourenemy]

Cavs are starting to put it together and its fun to watch. Kyrie/Love/LeBron are all at the top of their games. Deron Williams seems to have some renewed confidence and has done some nice things (looks like he got some of his touch back when he shredded the Heat the other night). I have to give the role players a lot of credit. ITs not easy to stay sharp when you have 3 guys like KI, Love and LeBron combining for 89 points. Thompson- again- another huge offensive rebound down the stretch that just breaks the back of the opposition. Shumpert played his ass off when he got his shot in the 2nd half.

Only guy that needs some help is JR. Hopefully his hamstring isnt too serious- and if he has to sit out a game- its not longer than just one game.

Cavs really seem to benefit from the playoff schedule- no back to backs- plenty of time to prepare and execute a game plan.

Lets keep it rolling. Pretty awesome they have today and tomorrow off before playing Thursday. KI and LBJ should have plenty of time to recover.

Kyrie is just simply unguardable at times. The announcers even said they think he is prob. the best player in space in the game. He just has so many ways he can score- if you play him to drive he will shoot over you- if you play him to shoot- he will go right passed you. He has a great pull-up mid-range game as well. Its so much fun watching him carve up opposing teams. I feel bad for the Pacers, lol---- they try and put PG on KI- and leave Love with a mismatch that the Cavs go on to exploit. How you can guard all 3 of those guys and STILL stick to the vast array of shooters the Cavs have make them practically impossible to guard.

Golden State should be able to guard them pretty well.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Golden State should be able to guard them pretty well.

we shall see- thats why the play the games.

If the Cavs can continue to improve and get out of the East well rested and mostly unscathed itll be interesting. It is a double edged sword in a way because either GSW or the Spurs will have faced some adversity playing eachother- which is always a nice thing to have in your back pocket----- the Cavs arent likely to be pushed by anyone in the East......however- if the Cavs can go something like 12-4 or 12-5 on the way to the Finals- theres a good chance they will show up healthier and more rested (knock on wood). Plus- if its the Warriors and not hte Spurs- Durant is going to have an incredible amount of pressure on his shoulders. If he doesnt get it done next year is going to be absolutely miserable for him. Think LeBron post Mavs choke job.

GSW def. would deserve to be the favorite- but no one wins a title without some things breakin their way along the long journey that is the NBA playoffs. Its just gonna be a helluva ride to watch over the next couple months.

I gotta say- it sure as hell beats rooting for lotto balls to come up big! lol....trust me- i know!

 

[trojanfan12]

ehh...he has plenty of time. Kyrie is quitea bit further along then many of his contemporaries were at his current age. RW and Curry both were not as good as Kyrie at his age. Harden too. None of those guys obviously have a shot as big as Kyrie's either. the scary thing is Kyrie is just now starting to enter his prime.

I disagree re: Westbrook (especially defensively). Curry's career didn't really take off until he got past his ankle issues or whatever that was. I'll give you Harden though. If memory serves, Harden was coming off the bench at Kyrie's age and he doesn't pay anymore attention to defense than Kyrie does.

You continue to ignore that Kyrie is a defensive liability. Defense isn't just something that a player starts doing in his prime. It's something that guys work on for their entire careers and Kyrie doesn't even seem like he ever puts in work on defense.

 

[WiggyRuss]

He's good. Damn good. He's one of the more elite offensive players in the game. He's also one of the most fun players to watch on the offensive end of the floor. That's not even disputable. Not sure why you feel the need to keep posting about it over and over again.

However, unless and until he starts playing some defense, he's not ever going to be as great as he could be. I mean, how many of the points that he provides for his team on offense are given right back on defense?

You've mentioned many times on here about him being a "Kobe protege." Well, Kobe was elite on defense as well as offense. Kyrie needs to learn that aspect of the game if he's going to be a complete player.

I mean- its kinda crazy- Kyrie Irving is actually closer in age to like Julius Randle then he is to Steph Curry. He just turned 25 less than a month ago. He is learning from LeBron everyday and his mentor is Kobe. He already is one of the clutchest players in the NBA. The sky is really the limit here.

 

[trojanfan12]

If the Cavs can continue to improve and get out of the East well rested and mostly unscathed itll be interesting.

How are they going to do that when they can't even get rest in the 4th quarter for their big 3 vs. the #7 seed? It's not like the teams they face will be getting worse as they advance.

If they continue to have to play their big 3 late all the way through the playoffs, it may be good for them as far as facing adversity, since they will no doubt face adversity in the finals.

But it won't do much for them getting to the finals rested and unscathed.

 

[DorianRo]

On an unrelated note, Kawahi Leonard is the best player in the game but he will probably never be recognized as such because he isn't an attention whore

 

[Hambombs]

On an unrelated note, Kawahi Leonard is the best player in the game but he will probably never be recognized as such because he isn't an attention whore

Is he better than Lebron? No

 

[DorianRo]

Is he better than Lebron? No

Now he is when you factor in what he can do on both ends of the court. If he had Love/Irving for supporting help Spurs would be an easy dynasty. Under Lebron, this Cavs may just be a one and done team

 

[trojanfan12]

I mean- its kinda crazy- Kyrie Irving is actually closer in age to like Julius Randle then he is to Steph Curry. He just turned 25 less than a month ago. He is learning from LeBron everyday and his mentor is Kobe. He already is one of the clutchest players in the NBA. The sky is really the limit here.

Lebron and Kobe were elite defenders, even at 25. Lebron still is when he wants to be. That's what Kyrie needs to develop and he's already behind in that aspect of the game. So he better start paying attention to what those guys were doing on that end of the floor.

Can he still develop into at least a solid, if not elite, defender? Absolutely. As you point out, dude just turned 25. But, for that to happen, he needs to get started on that part of his game. NBA careers only last so long. They have a way of going by quicker than it seems.

Heck, I was talking to a friend of mine the other day and we were saying how it seems like yesterday that we were watching a 19-20 year old Kobe shooting airballs late in a playoff game vs. the Jazz and now he's old and retired. lol

 

[Hambombs]

Now he is. If he had Love/Irving for supporting help Spurs would be an easy dynasty. Under Lebron, this Cavs may just be a one and done team

And the Spurs don't have help? Cmon now lol

 

[trojanfan12]

Is he better than Lebron? No

Right now? Today? I agree, the answer is no.

But the gap has closed significantly and Kawhi is only 25. Within a couple of seasons, he will likely be the best player in the game.

 

[WiggyRuss]

How are they going to do that when they can't even get rest in the 4th quarter for their big 3 vs. the #7 seed? It's not like the teams they face will be getting worse as they advance.

If they continue to have to play their big 3 late all the way through the playoffs, it may be good for them as far as facing adversity, since they will no doubt face adversity in the finals.

But it won't do much for them getting to the finals rested and unscathed.

lol--- resting DURING the games?

i think thats asking a little much in the playoffs--- if they can do their best to limit the amt. of games- thats where they will get hte majority of their rest- just like last year.

I mean- if this series goes 4 or 5 games--- and the other series goes 7- the CAvs are gonna get a week off---- a quarter off here or there pales in comparison to the rest they will get if they just take care of business in the series as a whole. To expect any team in the playoffs to just blow out the other team and have their starters on the bench i nthe 4th is asinine. If it happens here or there- great--- but this is the playoffs for a reason. Everyone is playing hard and everyone has good players. Shit- Paul George is arguably the 2nd best player in the whole EAst.

 

[WiggyRuss]

On an unrelated note, Kawahi Leonard is the best player in the game but he will probably never be recognized as such because he isn't an attention whore

maybe one day he will be but right now?

there is only 1 answer for best player in the game that wont get you laughed at.

 

[Hambombs]

Right now? Today? I agree, the answer is no.

But the gap has closed significantly and Kawhi is only 25. Within a couple of seasons, he will likely be the best player in the game.

Very true. Him and freak will be best probably

 

[Hambombs]

My top 2 players in west and east

Lebron
Freak

KD
Kawhi

 

[knowyourenemy]

On an unrelated note, Kawahi Leonard is the best player in the game but he will probably never be recognized as such because he isn't an attention whore

Never heard of Kawahi Leonard.

 

[trojanfan12]

lol--- resting DURING the games?

i think thats asking a little much in the playoffs--- if they can do their best to limit the amt. of games- thats where they will get hte majority of their rest- just like last year.

Actually, it's not asking too much at all. In both games, the Cavs have had double digit leads in the 4th quarter. Had they been able to put the Pacers away, they would have been able to rest their guys for all or most of the 4th quarter in those games.

Instead, they had to play all 3 of them heavy minutes in the 4th quarter and are lucky that they aren't 1-1 or even 0-2 right now.

You're a stats guy:

Last year, they were able to limit both the number of games and number of minutes during games because they were playing championship level defense They had some ridiculous blowouts last year. In fact, the level of defense they played last year is exactly why they were able to come back from 3-1 vs. the Warriors.

This year, they haven't played anything close to championship level defense. Last year, the Cavs gave up 95 points per game in the first round. This year, so far (2 games), they are giving up 110.

Last year, including the finals, they gave up an average of 96.2 points per game. They gave up 108 or more points twice in the entire playoffs. They done that twice in the first 2 games this year.

Last year, in the finals, vs. one of the best offensive teams we have seen, the Cavs gave up an average of 99.8 points per game.

What have they shown this year that says they can play that type of defense again?

 

[trojanfan12]

Very true. Him and freak will be best probably

Agree.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Actually, it's not asking too much at all. In both games, the Cavs have had double digit leads in the 4th quarter. Had they been able to put the Pacers away, they would have been able to rest their guys for all or most of the 4th quarter in those games.

Instead, they had to play all 3 of them heavy minutes in the 4th quarter and are lucky that they aren't 1-1 or even 0-2 right now.

You're a stats guy:

Last year, they were able to limit both the number of games and number of minutes during games because they were playing championship level defense They had some ridiculous blowouts last year. In fact, the level of defense they played last year is exactly why they were able to come back from 3-1 vs. the Warriors.

This year, they haven't played anything close to championship level defense. Last year, the Cavs gave up 95 points per game in the first round. This year, so far (2 games), they are giving up 110.

Last year, including the finals, they gave up an average of 96.2 points per game. They gave up 108 or more points twice in the entire playoffs. They done that twice in the first 2 games this year.

Last year, in the finals, vs. one of the best offensive teams we have seen, the Cavs gave up an average of 99.8 points per game.

What have they shown this year that says they can play that type of defense again?

so- if they finish the series in 4 or 5 games and get like 4-5 days off you think thats not enough and that they would have benefited more from an extra couple quarters? cmon now. This is the NBA playoffs.

If they finish each series off relatively easily that will be plenty of rest where an extra quarter or two would be irrelevant.

you really think if they get 4-5 days off an extra quarter makes a difference?

 

[WiggyRuss]

My top 2 players in west and east

Lebron
Freak

KD
Kawhi

yah....that prob sounds about right to me.

In the East you have that group of George, Butler, Wall, Kyrie, and Giannis who are all in that running I think- but id prob go with Giannis as #2 as well. --- after that you got like Lowry, Milsap, DeRozan, IT, maybe Beal --- Porzingis and Embiid at some point- maybe Jabari if he can ever get/stay healthy.

In the West- I would go with Kawhi- and Durant as #2--- but there is a lot more guys you could put up there of course- RW, Harden, Curry, CP, --- and then the next tier down i think you go with guys like Towns, AD, Cousins, Lillard, Heyward, maybe Gasol----- some young guys like Jokic, Wiggins and Booker might get there soon too