Series Thread: 1) Toronto Raptors vs 4) Cleveland Cavs

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

how many years was Magic--- A. the NBA's best player, and B. a top 5 player?

It's all relative, Russ.

Magic played in the Golden Era of Stars.

Jordan, KAJ, Bird, Ewing, Dream, Barkley, Isiah Thomas.....etc.

Lebron's closest rivals were mid career Kobe, end of Career Shaq and now Durant.

Prime Timmy was a factor too.

But, he didn't have as many all time great rivals.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

we are not talking about him- Chris Paul as top 5 of aLL TIME--- hes not even top 20 - probably not even top 30 or 40 ---

You are saying MAgic is top 3-- and when you look at his body of work and de-mystify it- im just not sure its justified unless you are putting some major subjective feelings into it.

So, this is the part where I tell you to go back and read my post again.

I have Magic #4.

 

[WiggyRuss]

It's all relative, Russ.

Magic played in the Golden Era of Stars.

Jordan, KAJ, Bird, Ewing, Dream, Barkley, Isiah Thomas.....etc.

Lebron's closest rivals were mid career Kobe, end of Career Shaq and now Durant.

Prime Timmy was a factor too.

But, he didn't have as many all time great rivals.

I just dont think its that relative.

I think LeBron has been the best player in the league longer than anyone thats every played the game of basketball and that when you are splitting hairs, and talking about all time greats in the rarified air of top 5 of all time- those type of things matter. Magic might have been the best player in the league between 3 and 6 years--- probably 4 years.

Magic:
3 MVPS
3 time Finals MVP
9 time ALL NBA 1st team
1 time ALL NBA Second team
4 time assists leader
2 time steals leader
3 times Finals MVP
7 total finals
probably best player in the league for 4 years
0 all NBA defensive teams
12 time nba all star

LeBron:
4 MVPS
3 time Finals MVP
11 All NBA 1st teams (will add #12 this year)
2 time ALL NBA 2nd team
6 time All NBA Defensive team- 5 times first, 1 time second
13 time all star
8 total Finals (soon to be 9

So

4 mvps vs. 3 mvps
3 Finals mvps vs. 3 Finals Mvps
12 time All NBA 1st team, 9 time All NBA 1st team
2 time All NBA 2nd team vs. 1 time all nba 2nd team
3 time champ vs. 5 time champ
6 time all nba defensive team vs. 0 time all nba defensive team
1 time scoring champion vs. 1 time assists champion
probably the NBA's best player 11 times--- probably the NBA's best player 4 times
13 time all star vs. 12 time all star

 

[LAD]

"This is probably LeBrons 11th straight season as the NBA's best player."

That would mean he took over in the '06/'07 season? Not quite. Maybe a year or two later IMO.

 

[WiggyRuss]

That would mean he took over in the '06/'07 season? Not quite. Maybe a year or two later IMO.

the next year....remember its inclusive so its an extra year.....go to his stats and count the years 07-08 to 17-18 is actually 11 years

 

[Wamu]

"This is probably LeBrons 11th straight season as the NBA's best player."

You've lost wiggy, just admit it. First you claimed you never used the word dominant & I proved you wrong using your own comment. Now you wanna change it up & say this instead? I still stand by what I said in comment # 210.

 

[Wamu]

we are not talking about him- Chris Paul as top 5 of aLL TIME--- hes not even top 20 - probably not even top 30 or 40 ---

You are saying MAgic is top 3-- and when you look at his body of work and de-mystify it- im just not sure its justified unless you are putting some major subjective feelings into it.

I dislike the Lakers but I have Magic # 2 all time & KAJ # 3. Sometimes you have to be 100% unbiased when it come to ranking all time great players. You haven't done that. LeBron's great. But he's not # 2 all time.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I dislike the Lakers but I have Magic # 2 all time & KAJ # 3. Sometimes you have to be 100% unbiased when it come to ranking all time great players. You haven't done that. LeBron's great. But he's not # 2 all time.

i think being unbiased is not letting your subjective opinion inform your choice.

Hard numbers I cant see how you could say LeBron isnt over Magic. Kareem you can make the argument because of his longevity, but Magic - if you are not being subjective- i dont see how you can make the arugment.

 

[WiggyRuss]

You've lost wiggy, just admit it. First you claimed you never used the word dominant & I proved you wrong using your own comment. Now you wanna change it up & say this instead? I still stand by what I said in comment # 210.

well that was my argument--- if you are talking about top 5 of all time i want to know how many years your guy was considerd the VERY BEST in the league

i think for LeBron that is an UNHEARD OF UNMATCHED AND LIKELY NEVER WILL BE MATCHED 11 years

I think for Jordan it was 9 years

I think for Magic it was between 3-6 years-- probably 4 years

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

At least he has some good posts and they are very detailed, you on the other hand, your posts are pretty worthless. No offense lol

Your weird man crush with him is pretty concerning.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

i think being unbiased is not letting your subjective opinion inform your choice.

Hard numbers I cant see how you could say LeBron isnt over Magic. Kareem you can make the argument because of his longevity, but Magic - if you are not being subjective- i dont see how you can make the arugment.

God you're a fucking idiot

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Magic was elite for a long time. But he wasn't as dominant as Lebron.

And lebron wasn't as dominant as Shaq.

Two completely different positions. How often has a PG been 'dominant'?

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

the next year....remember its inclusive so its an extra year.....go to his stats and count the years 07-08 to 17-18 is actually 11 years

Between 2007 and 2011, lebron was not even close to being the best player.

Heck, even Dwight had the upper hand of him a couple of times during that period.

Want to post a Kobe vs lebron comparison between the two over those 4 years to see who was the actual best player?

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

And lebron wasn't as dominant as Shaq.

Two completely different positions. How often has a PG been 'dominant'?

Great point.

It wasn't Magic's job to score.

But, he did when he had to.

Like LeBron, Simmons, Nash.....

Magic could control the game in other ways beyond putting the ball in the basket.

I'm not sure why Wiggy is so intent on shitting on Magic.

They can both be great without it taking away from the other.

 

[trojanfan12]

I think he has easily passed Magic considering the length of Magic's career and the fact that Magic was maybe the games best player for how many years? 5? LeBron is 11 straight at this point. 4 MVPs , 3 Finals MVPs and he did not play with nearly the talent Magic did. Magic getting the AIDS and having to bow out early does not help his cause. How many years would you say Magic was the best player in the NBA?

MJ will be the question- but again- MJ did not have the longest career and missed time becuase of injuries.

Kareem has the longevity of LeBron but he was never the games best player for a stretch like LeBron.

I still have Magic ahead of Lebron for 2 reasons...

1. He's my all-time favorite player. It took me years to put MJ ahead of him, it'll be the same with Lebron.

2. He had a greater impact on the popularity of the game than Lebron. To be fair to Lebron, much of that is simply the product of when Magic came into the league vs. Lebron. When Magic came into the league, there were championship games being played on tape delay at 11:30 at night. That all changed with him and Bird. Without Magic and Bird, there may have been no Lebron or MJ for that matter.

I don't really put too much stock in how long a guy was the best player in the league because the talent level isn't always equal.

 

[trojanfan12]

I generally agree with all of this but I will say that time softens memories of players. MJ benefits from being out of basketball for 20 years while Lebron is still a dominant force.

In 10 years, people will look at Lebron very differently especially the younger folks who won't have as many memories of Lebron and none of MJ.

I can see that happening. The farther away we get from an all timers actual career, the better the perception of how good he was tends to get.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

I just dont think its that relative.

I think LeBron has been the best player in the league longer than anyone thats every played the game of basketball and that when you are splitting hairs, and talking about all time greats in the rarified air of top 5 of all time- those type of things matter. Magic might have been the best player in the league between 3 and 6 years--- probably 4 years.

Magic:
3 MVPS
3 time Finals MVP
9 time ALL NBA 1st team
1 time ALL NBA Second team
4 time assists leader
2 time steals leader
3 times Finals MVP
7 total finals
probably best player in the league for 4 years
0 all NBA defensive teams
12 time nba all star

LeBron:
4 MVPS
3 time Finals MVP
11 All NBA 1st teams (will add #12 this year)
2 time ALL NBA 2nd team
6 time All NBA Defensive team- 5 times first, 1 time second
13 time all star
8 total Finals (soon to be 9

So

4 mvps vs. 3 mvps
3 Finals mvps vs. 3 Finals Mvps
12 time All NBA 1st team, 9 time All NBA 1st team
2 time All NBA 2nd team vs. 1 time all nba 2nd team
3 time champ vs. 5 time champ
6 time all nba defensive team vs. 0 time all nba defensive team
1 time scoring champion vs. 1 time assists champion
probably the NBA's best player 11 times--- probably the NBA's best player 4 times
13 time all star vs. 12 time all star

Are you aware that we both have LeBron ahead of Magic?

I just want to make sure you caught that point before we continue....lol

It is relative...imo.

And that's because you are using who was the best player in the NBA as the metric for who was best historically.

It was much harder to be recognized as the best player in the league when Magic was playing.

That is indisputable.

 

[LogicMan]

I dislike the Lakers but I have Magic # 2 all time & KAJ # 3. Sometimes you have to be 100% unbiased when it come to ranking all time great players. You haven't done that. LeBron's great. But he's not # 2 all time.

Magic changed the game, and the league. Dude played all 5 postions.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

well that was my argument--- if you are talking about top 5 of all time i want to know how many years your guy was considerd the VERY BEST in the league

i think for LeBron that is an UNHEARD OF UNMATCHED AND LIKELY NEVER WILL BE MATCHED 11 years

Want to play?

Let's use the following four NBA seasons which you've included as part of "lebron as the best player for 11 years":
2007-08 till 2010-11

Player A:
2 x NBA Champion
3 x Finals appearances
2 x Finals MVP
4 x NBA First team
4 x NBA Defense First team
4 x All Star
2 x All Star Game MVP
1 x League MVP

Player B:
4 x NBA First team
3 x NBA Defense First team
4 x All Star
1 x All Star Game MVP
2 x League MVP

Tell me @WiggyRuss which player was better? Player A or Player B?

 

[Wamu]

Magic changed the game, and the league. Dude played all 5 postions.

Yes he did. And although he pissed me off in '85 & '87 I always liked watching him play.