Series Thread: 1) Toronto Raptors vs 4) Cleveland Cavs

[LAD]

Maybe Kyle Lowry should avoid anything he can get lodged in his trachea the rest of the day?

Sounds like you can help with a few pointers here.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Yeah, I have Lebron as a solid #4 behind MJ, Kareem and Magic. He may well be #2 or #3 by the time he retires. I don't see him catching MJ. Won't rule it out, but it's going to be very difficult, imo.

as i said on the other page--- at some point LeBron's sure longevity may become just too much.

MJ was probably the NBA's best player for 9 seasons--- and thats if you count him as the best player the 2 years Magic won back to back MVPs.

This is probably LeBrons 11th straight season as the NBA's best player.

No one has been this dominant for as long as LeBron. Kareem does have the longevity, but he was never at the very top for that long.

Magic was the best player in the game for how many years? MAYBE 4-5?

Its why I HAVE to go with LeBron over Magic. ITs splitting hairs at that level- but Magic being better than LeBron all time when Magic was arguably the games best player for only 4-6 years has me doubting it. LeBron could be the games best player for 12-13 years. Thats just simply something no one else will ever match.

 

[Black Adam]

Sounds like you can help with a few pointers here.

 

[Wamu]

as i said on the other page--- at some point LeBron's sure longevity may become just too much.

MJ was probably the NBA's best player for 9 seasons--- and thats if you count him as the best player the 2 years Magic won back to back MVPs.

This is probably LeBrons 11th straight season as the NBA's best player.

No one has been this dominant for as long as LeBron. Kareem does have the longevity, but he was never at the very top for that long.

Magic was the best player in the game for how many years? MAYBE 4-5?

Its why I HAVE to go with LeBron over Magic. ITs splitting hairs at that level- but Magic being better than LeBron all time when Magic was arguably the games best player for only 4-6 years has me doubting it. LeBron could be the games best player for 12-13 years. Thats just simply something no one else will ever match.

You might want to pump the breaks a little bit when saying nobody has been dominant for 11 consecutive seasons. Just take a look @ what Wilt did during the '67-'68 season, his 11th year. League MVP. Averaged 24.3 ppg, led the league in rebs w/ 23.8, 8.6 asts, led the league in FG% & minutes.

 

[trojanfan12]

as i said on the other page--- at some point LeBron's sure longevity may become just too much.

MJ was probably the NBA's best player for 9 seasons--- and thats if you count him as the best player the 2 years Magic won back to back MVPs.

This is probably LeBrons 11th straight season as the NBA's best player.

No one has been this dominant for as long as LeBron. Kareem does have the longevity, but he was never at the very top for that long.

Magic was the best player in the game for how many years? MAYBE 4-5?

Its why I HAVE to go with LeBron over Magic. ITs splitting hairs at that level- but Magic being better than LeBron all time when Magic was arguably the games best player for only 4-6 years has me doubting it. LeBron could be the games best player for 12-13 years. Thats just simply something no one else will ever match.

There are 2 problems for Lebron vs. MJ and both are going to be very difficult to overcome because they are outside of the pure numbers.

One is how MJ is perceived vs. Lebron. We know now what an asshole MJ was, but back then, no one really did. MJ carefully crafted his image and managed to keep it pretty squeaky clean. I mean, MJ punches out a teammate and folks say "That's how competitive he was" and he gets a pass. If Lebron did that...folks would be demanding he be arrested for assault. Also, Lebron being seen as a guy who "hopped to stacked teams" doesn't help either. In short MJ is seen as more "likable".

Another thing that hurts Lebron with perception is "the flu game" vs. "the cramps game". Fair or not, the perception is that MJ responded with an all time performance while Lebron had to be carried off the court. The truth is, if MJ had the same cramping issue that Lebron did, he wouldn't have been able to play either...but that's not the perception.

The other is the mythology around MJ vs. the mythology around Lebron. People talk like MJ took and hit every big shot late in every important game, while at the same time, talking like Lebron has deferred in every big moment of every important game. Of course, neither is true, but it's the mythology around them both.

Like I said, I can definitely see Lebron passing Magic and Kareem if he keeps playing like he has, but it's going to be a good bit tougher to catch and pass MJ. Imo, the best Lebron can probably hope for is a 1a/1b thing.

 

[WiggyRuss]

You might want to pump the breaks a little bit when saying nobody has been dominant for 11 consecutive seasons. Just take a look @ what Wilt did during the '67-'68 season, his 11th year. League MVP. Averaged 24.3 ppg, led the league in rebs w/ 23.8, 8.6 asts, led the league in FG% & minutes.

i didnt say dominant--- i said the games best player.

There are a lot of dominant players that are not the best in the game.

 

[WiggyRuss]

There are 2 problems for Lebron vs. MJ and both are going to be very difficult to overcome because they are outside of the pure numbers.

One is how MJ is perceived vs. Lebron. We know now what an asshole MJ was, but back then, no one really did. MJ carefully crafted his image and managed to keep it pretty squeaky clean. I mean, MJ punches out a teammate and folks say "That's how competitive he was" and he gets a pass. If Lebron did that...folks would be demanding he be arrested for assault. Also, Lebron being seen as a guy who "hopped to stacked teams" doesn't help either. In short MJ is seen as more "likable".

Another thing that hurts Lebron with perception is "the flu game" vs. "the cramps game". Fair or not, the perception is that MJ responded with an all time performance while Lebron had to be carried off the court. The truth is, if MJ had the same cramping issue that Lebron did, he wouldn't have been able to play either...but that's not the perception.

The other is the mythology around MJ vs. the mythology around Lebron. People talk like MJ took and hit every big shot late in every important game, while at the same time, talking like Lebron has deferred in every big moment of every important game. Of course, neither is true, but it's the mythology around them both.

Like I said, I can definitely see Lebron passing Magic and Kareem if he keeps playing like he has, but it's going to be a good bit tougher to catch and pass MJ. Imo, the best Lebron can probably hope for is a 1a/1b thing.

I think he has easily passed Magic considering the length of Magic's career and the fact that Magic was maybe the games best player for how many years? 5? LeBron is 11 straight at this point. 4 MVPs , 3 Finals MVPs and he did not play with nearly the talent Magic did. Magic getting the AIDS and having to bow out early does not help his cause. How many years would you say Magic was the best player in the NBA?

MJ will be the question- but again- MJ did not have the longest career and missed time becuase of injuries.

Kareem has the longevity of LeBron but he was never the games best player for a stretch like LeBron.

 

[flyerhawk]

There are 2 problems for Lebron vs. MJ and both are going to be very difficult to overcome because they are outside of the pure numbers.

One is how MJ is perceived vs. Lebron. We know now what an asshole MJ was, but back then, no one really did. MJ carefully crafted his image and managed to keep it pretty squeaky clean. I mean, MJ punches out a teammate and folks say "That's how competitive he was" and he gets a pass. If Lebron did that...folks would be demanding he be arrested for assault. Also, Lebron being seen as a guy who "hopped to stacked teams" doesn't help either. In short MJ is seen as more "likable".

Another thing that hurts Lebron with perception is "the flu game" vs. "the cramps game". Fair or not, the perception is that MJ responded with an all time performance while Lebron had to be carried off the court. The truth is, if MJ had the same cramping issue that Lebron did, he wouldn't have been able to play either...but that's not the perception.

The other is the mythology around MJ vs. the mythology around Lebron. People talk like MJ took and hit every big shot late in every important game, while at the same time, talking like Lebron has deferred in every big moment of every important game. Of course, neither is true, but it's the mythology around them both.

Like I said, I can definitely see Lebron passing Magic and Kareem if he keeps playing like he has, but it's going to be a good bit tougher to catch and pass MJ. Imo, the best Lebron can probably hope for is a 1a/1b thing.

I generally agree with all of this but I will say that time softens memories of players. MJ benefits from being out of basketball for 20 years while Lebron is still a dominant force.

In 10 years, people will look at Lebron very differently especially the younger folks who won't have as many memories of Lebron and none of MJ.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I generally agree with all of this but I will say that time softens memories of players. MJ benefits from being out of basketball for 20 years while Lebron is still a dominant force.

In 10 years, people will look at Lebron very differently especially the younger folks who won't have as many memories of Lebron and none of MJ.

MJ also benefits from there being no twitter, 24 hour media cycle.

When it comes down to actual hard numbers and facts and not old people waxing philosophically about the good ole days it becomes a lot closer.

To me the Magic arugment is dead--- Magic was just not truly great for nearly as long as LeBron has been truly great.

 

[Wamu]

i didnt say dominant--- i said the games best player.

There are a lot of dominant players that are not the best in the game.

Gotta call BULLSHIT! This is exactly what you said in comment # 202: No one has been this dominant for as long as LeBron. Wilt was also League MVP in '67 & '66 (MVP 3-peat, did LeBron ever do that?). Also Wilt's 1st 11 years he led the league in these stats: scoring 7x, rebounding 7x, FG% 6x, minutes 8x. But yeah he wasn't the best when he played.

 

[flyerhawk]

MJ also benefits from there being no twitter, 24 hour media cycle.

When it comes down to actual hard numbers and facts and not old people waxing philosophically about the good ole days it becomes a lot closer.

To me the Magic arugment is dead--- Magic was just not truly great for nearly as long as LeBron has been truly great.

Magic was elite for a long time. But he wasn't as dominant as Lebron.

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

@Mecca I know you'll appreciate this

Lmfao.....they left his teeth yellow!!!!,

 

[WiggyRuss]

Magic was elite for a long time. But he wasn't as dominant as Lebron.

how many years do you think Magic was A. the best player in the league? and B. A top 5 player in the league?

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

do the Raptors have LeBron Raymone James? Inarguably the 2nd best player of all time....one day arguably the best?

You have him in front of KAJ?

I have him 3rd.

It is really hard to put him ahead of Magic.

But, for obvious reasons, Johnson had to hang them up early.

LeBron's numbers are still getting better....which makes me believe he's on PED's.

But, that's a story for another day...

Magic had to share his heyday with a bunch of other greats and LeBron hasn't really had a rival , until now, since Kobe went into the toilet.

So, it could be recency bias. But, I don't think so since Magic is one of my favorite players of all time.

Jordan, KAJ, LeBron, Magic........DUNCAN.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Gotta call BULLSHIT! This is exactly what you said in comment # 202: No one has been this dominant for as long as LeBron. Wilt was also League MVP in '67 & '66 (MVP 3-peat, did LeBron ever do that?). Also Wilt's 1st 11 years he led the league in these stats: scoring 7x, rebounding 7x, FG% 6x, minutes 8x. But yeah he wasn't the best when he played.

"This is probably LeBrons 11th straight season as the NBA's best player."

 

[WiggyRuss]

You have him in front of KAJ?

I have him 3rd.

It is really hard to put him ahead of Magic.

But, for obvious reasons, Johnson had to hang them up early.

LeBron's numbers are still getting better....which makes me believe he's on PED's.

But, that's a story for another day...

Magic had to share his heyday with a bunch of other greats and LeBron hasn't really had a rival , until now, since Kobe went into the toilet.

So, it could be recency bias. But, I don't think so since Magic is one of my favorite players of all time.

how many years was Magic--- A. the NBA's best player, and B. a top 5 player?

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

how many years do you think Magic was A. the best player in the league? and B. A top 5 player in the league?

How many years has Chris Paul been the best?

Yet, he's still elite, right?

 

[Shanemansj13]

Sarcasm isn't your strength is it? Thanks for taking that comment seriously. Next time try to find a sense of humor.

Canadians don’t have a sense of humor

 

[Shanemansj13]

Like the majority of your posts

At least he has some good posts and they are very detailed, you on the other hand, your posts are pretty worthless. No offense lol

 

[WiggyRuss]

How many years has Chris Paul been the best?

Yet, he's still elite, right?

we are not talking about him- Chris Paul as top 5 of aLL TIME--- hes not even top 20 - probably not even top 30 or 40 ---

You are saying MAgic is top 3-- and when you look at his body of work and de-mystify it- im just not sure its justified unless you are putting some major subjective feelings into it.