CFP Rankings Week 12

ericd7633 · Nov 21, 2019

dtgold88 said:
First, this is your opinion. Second, for this discussion we are assuming Oregon or Utah beats the other so that would be either's best win.

I've taken that into account in an earlier post.

Best wins for LSU: Bama, UF, Auburn
Best wins for Oregon: Utah, USC, Washington
Best wins for Utah: Oregon, Washington

Who has better wins?

You keep questioning how good UF and Auburn are, how good are Oregon and Utah?

ericd7633 · Nov 21, 2019

dtgold88 said:
Lols don't turn opinions into fact. Washington lost to Oregon and Utah by 9 points total, so certainly they are on their level, right?

You keep saying how great UGA/Auburn/UF are but their big wins are pretty much against each other.

Auburn beat Oregon, UGA beat Notre Dame. If UGA and Auburn would have lost those games this wouldn't even be a discussion.

I'm still waiting for you to tell me what makes Utah and Oregon so good if UGA, UF and Auburn aren't? Utah is 0-1 against ranked teams. Lost to USC's 3rd string QB. Has currently no good wins.

dtgold88 · Nov 21, 2019

ericd7633 said:
I've taken that into account in an earlier post.

Best wins for LSU: Bama, UF, Auburn
Best wins for Oregon: Utah, USC, Washington
Best wins for Utah: Oregon, Washington

Who has better wins?

You keep questioning how good UF and Auburn are, how good is Oregon and Utah?

That's the point....I'm not really sure how good any of them are. I think LSU is better than Oregon and Utah and you could certainly justify their inclusion. But you could also justify sticking to what you've done so far and not take a 1-loss non champ over a 1-loss champ.

If a 12-1 OSU loses a close rematch to, say, a Wisconsin team who would at that point be ranked nearly as high or higher than Bama (and a team OSU also would have beaten convincingly) will you be fighting for OSU's inclusion too?

They'd have beaten Wisky, PSU, UM and Cinci

Should it happen, sure I'd be hopeful OSU could get in but would understand completely if Oregon/Utah winner got in.

dtgold88 · Nov 21, 2019

ericd7633 said:
Auburn beat Oregon, UGA beat Notre Dame. If UGA and Auburn would have lost those games this wouldn't even be a discussion.

I'm still waiting for you to tell me what makes Utah and Oregon so good if UGA, UF and Auburn aren't? Utah is 0-1 against ranked teams. Lost to USC's 3rd string QB. Has currently no good wins.

Exactly....and UGA and Auburn nearly lost both games. A couple plays going the other way make either a lesser team? Do they make Oregon and ND better?

Read this until it sinks in.....I never said Utah and Oregon are "so good". I don't know which team is better. I even suspect it's LSU. But with LSU not winning a CCG and the other winning I'll give the winning team the nod.

ericd7633 · Nov 21, 2019

dtgold88 said:
That's the point....I'm not really sure how good any of them are. I think LSU is better than Oregon and Utah and you could certainly justify their inclusion. But you could also justify sticking to what you've done so far and not take a 1-loss non champ over a 1-loss champ.

If a 12-1 OSU loses a close rematch to, say, a Wisconsin team who would at that point be ranked nearly as high or higher than Bama (and a team OSU also would have beaten convincingly) will you be fighting for OSU's inclusion too?

They'd have beaten Wisky, PSU, UM and Cinci

Should it happen, sure I'd be hopeful OSU could get in but would understand completely if Oregon/Utah winner got in.

Yes if OSU loses to Wisconsin/Minnesota in the B1G CG they should absolutely be in ahead of Oregon/Utah because of the same reasons LSU should as well.

ericd7633 · Nov 21, 2019

dtgold88 said:
Exactly....and UGA and Auburn nearly lost both games. A couple plays going the other way make either a lesser team? Do they make Oregon and ND better?

Read this until it sinks in.....I never said Utah and Oregon are "so good". I don't know which team is better. I even suspect it's LSU. But with LSU not winning a CCG and the other winning I'll give the winning team the nod.

Okay, and that's fine if you want to reward a team for having a CCG title. But if you simply stack up the two teams that are 12-1, LSU would have the better collection of wins and the better loss.

dtgold88 · Nov 21, 2019

ericd7633 said:
Yes if OSU loses to Wisconsin/Minnesota in the B1G CG they should absolutely be in ahead of Oregon/Utah because of the same reasons LSU should as well.

Hope committee sees it that way, but I would certainly understand if they don't. why can't you see the other side?

dtgold88 · Nov 21, 2019

ericd7633 said:
Okay, and that's fine if you want to reward a team for having a CCG title. But if you simply stack up the two teams that are 12-1, LSU would have the better collection of wins and the better loss.

based on opinion. Nothing factual.

And what if Auburn beats bama? Does that make Oregon's loss the better loss?

ericd7633 · Nov 21, 2019

Across The Field said:
It's safe to say the SEC and B1G are the two best conferences this year in terms of top-end teams. That said, I don't think it's unfair to say OSU is on a different level from the rest, with LSU not terribly far behind. Outside of these two conferences, Clemson is elite and on the OSU level, IMO.

However, after those three, I think you could take Bama, UGA, Florida, Auburn, Penn State, michigan, Iowa, Minnesota, and Wisconsin and match them up however you want and have some really close games throughout. You could probably even toss Utah, Oregon, Oklahoma, and Baylor into that mix.

After this, the rest of the P5 is just varying levels of a above average/average, and then horrible.

What this boils down to is that I wish we had better OOC matchups this year to help answer some of these questions.

I detailed that at the beginning of the year. The OOC games were awful this year, compared to past years. There are really only a couple of notable results. UGA beating ND, Auburn beating Oregon, Michigan beating ND, OSU over Cincy, maybe Iowa over ISU, but in the big picture not all that much, even the LSU win over Texas has lost some meaning. Here's to hoping next year there are better matchups.

ericd7633 · Nov 21, 2019

dtgold88 said:
Hope committee sees it that way, but I would certainly understand if they don't. why can't you see the other side?

My thinking is why reward a team like Utah, who went the ENTIRE regular season with zero wins over a ranked opponent, and still couldn't manage to go undefeated and take them over a team like OSU who has FOUR ranked wins(all of this assuming they win out), went undefeated, and happened to lose the last game of the year. OSU still has more ranked wins, 4 to 1 and the much better loss. What is the point of winning a conference if that conference wasn't good?

ericd7633 · Nov 21, 2019

dtgold88 said:
based on opinion. Nothing factual.

And what if Auburn beats bama? Does that make Oregon's loss the better loss?

It can't be a fact that Auburn is better than Washington? Okay? If Auburn does beat Bama and LSU loses to UGA, LSU still has the better loss.

I'm not saying that Washington couldn't beat Auburn or anything, but there is a reason Auburn is superior to Washington in every poll/metric. It's because they've done more on the field, including a win over Oregon, which Washington couldn't, and doesn't have losses to the likes of Cal and Stanford.

dtgold88 · Nov 21, 2019

ericd7633 said:
It can't be a fact that Auburn is better than Washington? Okay? If Auburn does beat Bama and LSU loses to UGA, LSU still has the better loss.

I'm not saying that Washington couldn't beat Auburn or anything, but there is a reason Auburn is superior to Washington in every poll/metric. It's because they've done more on the field, including a win over Oregon, which Washington couldn't, and doesn't have losses to the likes of Cal and Stanford.

Because you are only guessing which teams are good and which aren't and these are the rules they set up...CCG wins are supposed to matter.

Teams make playoffs in NFL by winning weaker divisions and/or with lesser records than teams who were in stronger divisions. How it goes.

will say at least in the NFL everyone knows the rules.

dtgold88 · Nov 21, 2019

ericd7633 said:
It can't be a fact that Auburn is better than Washington? Okay? If Auburn does beat Bama and LSU loses to UGA, LSU still has the better loss.

I'm not saying that Washington couldn't beat Auburn or anything, but there is a reason Auburn is superior to Washington in every poll/metric. It's because they've done more on the field, including a win over Oregon, which Washington couldn't, and doesn't have losses to the likes of Cal and Stanford.

My bad.....for some reason was thinking Bama was LSU's "better loss". Obviously you are right it's UGA.

Do you look at those polls or metrics that predict games? Tell you the chances a team will win or lose? They are often way off base.

Across The Field · Nov 21, 2019

dtgold88 said:
Because you are only guessing which teams are good and which aren't and these are the rules they set up...CCG wins are supposed to matter.

Teams make playoffs in NFL by winning weaker divisions and/or with lesser records than teams who were in stronger divisions. How it goes.

will say at least in the NFL everyone knows the rules.

Here's a question then - why should Oregon/Utah make it to the CFP over a team like Cincinnati if they go 12-1 and win their conference? Odds are, they'll end the year with two ranked wins (Memphis and SMU), with their only loss being a very likely #1 OSU team.

Winning a conference doesn't mean anything to me if the conference is total crap. Going an entire 13 game season with only 1 ranked win shouldn't mean a thing if there are teams with the same amount of losses and more ranked wins.

ericd7633 · Nov 21, 2019

dtgold88 said:
Because you are only guessing which teams are good and which aren't and these are the rules they set up...CCG wins are supposed to matter.

Teams make playoffs in NFL by winning weaker divisions and/or with lesser records than teams who were in stronger divisions. How it goes.

will say at least in the NFL everyone knows the rules.

I'm fine w a CCG title being the tie-breaker. But if OSU and LSU lose in the CCG, they would overwhelming have a better resume than the Pac 12 winner. Blame the Pac 12 for not doing better OOC. Had USC beaten ND and BYU, that Oregon win would look a hell of a lot better. UCLA goes 0-3 OOC. Oregon loses to Auburn. The multiple losses the conference took to the MTN. West. Win those games and then losses in conference look better.

dtgold88 · Nov 21, 2019

Across The Field said:
Here's a question then - why should Oregon/Utah make it to the CFP over a team like Cincinnati if they go 12-1 and win their conference? Odds are, they'll end the year with two ranked wins (Memphis and SMU), with their only loss being a very likely #1 OSU team.

Winning a conference doesn't mean anything to me if the conference is total crap. Going an entire 13 game season with only 1 ranked win shouldn't mean a thing if there are teams with the same amount of losses and more ranked wins.

It's a fair question. and the answer is I don't think Utah/Oregon deserves to go over Cinci. Though would also say I'm not certain Memphis and SMU would be ranked if they played a PAC schedule. Might be, but who knows?

dtgold88 · Nov 21, 2019

ericd7633 said:
I'm fine w a CCG title being the tie-breaker. But if OSU and LSU lose in the CCG, they would overwhelming have a better resume than the Pac 12 winner. Blame the Pac 12 for not doing better OOC. Had USC beaten ND and BYU, that Oregon win would look a hell of a lot better. UCLA goes 0-3 OOC. Oregon loses to Auburn. The multiple losses the conference took to the MTN. West. Win those games and then losses in conference look better.

Sure, but all that matters are what the teams in the discussion did. UCLA is just awful...now on the level of, say, Tennessee.

Across The Field · Nov 21, 2019

dtgold88 said:
It's a fair question. and the answer is I don't think Utah/Oregon deserves to go over Cinci. Though would also say I'm not certain Memphis and SMU would be ranked if they played a PAC schedule. Might be, but who knows?

Once you get to the point of saying "Who knows?", then you have to start making decisions. I definitely am agreeing with eric in that LSU would deserve to be in over Utah/Oregon, and it really wouldn't be close. The Pac12 is a disaster this year. Getting an arbitrary 12th win in the 13th game doesn't mean much when the preceding 12 games were almost entirely trash.

Deep Creek · Nov 21, 2019

Across The Field said:
What this boils down to is that I wish we had better OOC matchups this year to help answer some of these questions.

I'd also add "...more and better OOC matchups...." We could have more and better ones if the schools really wanted them.

Deep Creek · Nov 21, 2019

ericd7633 said:
My thinking is why reward a team like Utah, who went the ENTIRE regular season with zero wins over a ranked opponent, and still couldn't manage to go undefeated and take them over a team like OSU who has FOUR ranked wins(all of this assuming they win out), went undefeated, and happened to lose the last game of the year. OSU still has more ranked wins, 4 to 1 and the much better loss. What is the point of winning a conference if that conference wasn't good?

Across The Field said:
Here's a question then - why should Oregon/Utah make it to the CFP over a team like Cincinnati if they go 12-1 and win their conference? Odds are, they'll end the year with two ranked wins (Memphis and SMU), with their only loss being a very likely #1 OSU team.

Winning a conference doesn't mean anything to me if the conference is total crap. Going an entire 13 game season with only 1 ranked win shouldn't mean a thing if there are teams with the same amount of losses and more ranked wins.

It might not to you but it seems to mean something to the committee..at least this year (and in 2014).

Clemson is ranked #3! :heh:

CFP Rankings Week 12

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