Did you know that NFL QB's did not average...

richig07 · Nov 12, 2019

... a positive TD/INT ratio until 1984. The push over the hump to a collective positive TD/INT% was facilitated by Dan Marino's historically monstrous statistical season. Which really puts into perspective how phenomenal it was.

The next year the NFL would return to a negative collective TD/INT ratio. In 1992, it occurred for the final time.

Furthermore, into the late 70's the NFL would see seasons where the cumulative INT% was near 6.0% on average. Today, it sits at nearly 1/3 of that at 2.2%.

During the SB era; entering every decade the league's average passer rating was:

1970: 65.6
1980: 73.7
1990: 77.3
2000: 78.1
2010: 84.1

2019: 92.3

Upward trends really begin at the end of the 2000's (rating was just barely at 80.0 flat in 2006 and CMP% at 59% where it's now at 65%) and it takes on an even bigger spike in the mid-10's. To me... the noticeable breakthrough was 2011 after some rule changes with points of emphasis and 3 QB's finishing around 5K in yardage. Which was facilitated further by the arrival of Wilson/Kaep into the NFL as starters in 2012 and the spread offense slowly becoming mainstream.

www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/passing.htm

I thought this shit was interesting for no reason. Really puts into perspective why comparing QB numbers across eras is stupid. It also puts into perspective why I hate hearing about how (insert QB here) has better numbers to begin his career than Manning, Brady, Favre, Young, etc.

BTW... this thread should be referenced any time someone argues that Eli Manning belongs in the Hall of Fame for accumulating a bunch of empty calorie numbers to become top 10 all-time in a bunch of shit

CaptainStubing · Nov 12, 2019

ATL96Steeler · Nov 12, 2019

richig07 said:
I thought this shit was interesting for no reason. Really puts into perspective why comparing QB numbers across eras is stupid.

Agree 100% on this in bold.

mrschaney · Nov 12, 2019

This is interesting. I always was amazed that Joe Nameth had something like 100 more interceptions than he did td's.

nebearsfan70 · Nov 12, 2019

I think rule changes had a little something to do with this...

eaglesnut · Nov 12, 2019

richig07 said:
BTW... this thread should be referenced any time someone argues that Eli Manning belongs in the Hall of Fame for accumulating a bunch of empty calorie numbers to become top 10 all-time in a bunch of shit

So what?

"Top 10 out of the 500 QBs of the last 20 years" will still make you cry. :nod:

jarntt · Nov 12, 2019

Looks like Baker is a true throwback...

Robotech · Nov 12, 2019

richig07 said:
... a positive TD/INT ratio until 1984. The push over the hump to a collective positive TD/INT% was facilitated by Dan Marino's historically monstrous statistical season. Which really puts into perspective how phenomenal it was.

The next year the NFL would return to a negative collective TD/INT ratio. In 1992, it occurred for the final time.

Furthermore, into the late 70's the NFL would see seasons where the cumulative INT% was near 6.0% on average. Today, it sits at nearly 1/3 of that at 2.2%.

During the SB era; entering every decade the league's average passer rating was:

1970: 65.6
1980: 73.7
1990: 77.3
2000: 78.1
2010: 84.1

2019: 92.3

Upward trends really begin at the end of the 2000's (rating was just barely at 80.0 flat in 2006 and CMP% at 59% where it's now at 65%) and it takes on an even bigger spike in the mid-10's. To me... the noticeable breakthrough was 2011 after some rule changes with points of emphasis and 3 QB's finishing around 5K in yardage. Which was facilitated further by the arrival of Wilson/Kaep into the NFL as starters in 2012 and the spread offense slowly becoming mainstream.

www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/passing.htm

I thought this shit was interesting for no reason. Really puts into perspective why comparing QB numbers across eras is stupid. It also puts into perspective why I hate hearing about how (insert QB here) has better numbers to begin his career than Manning, Brady, Favre, Young, etc.

BTW... this thread should be referenced any time someone argues that Eli Manning belongs in the Hall of Fame for accumulating a bunch of empty calorie numbers to become top 10 all-time in a bunch of shit

I love this kind of stuff. Thanks for putting in the time. This is why I wonder if Otto Graham is the real GOAT. The passer rating he achieved playing in the '40s and '50s is incredible, and oh yeah, he also led his team to 7 championships (3 in the NFL and 4 in the AAFC).

Johnny Unitas also merits strong consideration for GOAT as well. Highly efficient and productive in the '50s and '60s before the efficiency dropped later in his career, and he won many championships.

I'm sure that Eli will make the Hall of Fame, but it's only because he's a Manning, he played in NY, and most people are in awe of the stats he accumulated and they ignore his inefficiency and turnovers. Jim Plunkett won 2 SB's as well, but he's nowhere close to making the Hall of Fame. I'm not even sure if Eli is an above average QB, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. His longevity is impressive, but does that really make someone Hall of Fame worthy? .

boogiewithstu2007 · Nov 12, 2019

richig07 said:
... a positive TD/INT ratio until 1984. The push over the hump to a collective positive TD/INT% was facilitated by Dan Marino's historically monstrous statistical season. Which really puts into perspective how phenomenal it was.

The next year the NFL would return to a negative collective TD/INT ratio. In 1992, it occurred for the final time.

Furthermore, into the late 70's the NFL would see seasons where the cumulative INT% was near 6.0% on average. Today, it sits at nearly 1/3 of that at 2.2%.

During the SB era; entering every decade the league's average passer rating was:

1970: 65.6
1980: 73.7
1990: 77.3
2000: 78.1
2010: 84.1

2019: 92.3

Upward trends really begin at the end of the 2000's (rating was just barely at 80.0 flat in 2006 and CMP% at 59% where it's now at 65%) and it takes on an even bigger spike in the mid-10's. To me... the noticeable breakthrough was 2011 after some rule changes with points of emphasis and 3 QB's finishing around 5K in yardage. Which was facilitated further by the arrival of Wilson/Kaep into the NFL as starters in 2012 and the spread offense slowly becoming mainstream.

www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/passing.htm

I thought this shit was interesting for no reason. Really puts into perspective why comparing QB numbers across eras is stupid. It also puts into perspective why I hate hearing about how (insert QB here) has better numbers to begin his career than Manning, Brady, Favre, Young, etc.

BTW... this thread should be referenced any time someone argues that Eli Manning belongs in the Hall of Fame for accumulating a bunch of empty calorie numbers to become top 10 all-time in a bunch of shit

NFL has definitely made it harder to play defense... It's frustrating because some of the tick tack rules aren't even concussion issue rules, but rather fantasy stat rules....

Robotech · Nov 12, 2019

The other thing to consider is the quality of the QB's team. What would the passer ratings of Montana, Young, Brady, and others look like if they were on bad teams? Of course, the counter would be that their teams were good because those QB's were great, but it's a team sport and being on a good team must help. So in defense of inefficient passers like Eli, Dalton, Flacco, Newton, etc, could it be that their teams just weren't that good or that they had to carry too much, and thus their efficiency was negatively impacted? Maybe it's not so clear cut.

And what do we think of Hall of Famers like Aikman who had great teams but had mediocre passing stats? I think Eli gets into the Hall of Fame easily partly because someone like Aikman is in. If you win Super Bowls for a high profile team and have anything close to decent passing stats or you accumulate big stats despite being inefficient, you are going to get into the Hall.

Robotech · Nov 12, 2019

Or maybe Aikman is the perfect example of the above. He had pretty good stats when his team was good, but bad stats when his team wasn't good.

Sharkonabicycle · Nov 12, 2019

jarntt said:
Looks like Baker is a true throwback...

Along with the other 20 QBs they've drafted since.

Ricky Roma · Nov 12, 2019

Marino's 1984 stats in todays game would make him a legit NFL MVP candidate....that's how fucking insane he was 35 years ago.

Robotech · Nov 12, 2019

Ricky Roma said:
Marino's 1984 stats in todays game would make him a legit NFL MVP candidate....that's how fucking insane he was 35 years ago.

Yeah. If Marino played on a better team, he surely would've finished with a passer rating above 90, maybe even close to 100.

flyerhawk · Nov 12, 2019

richig07 said:
BTW... this thread should be referenced any time someone argues that Eli Manning belongs in the Hall of Fame for accumulating a bunch of empty calorie numbers to become top 10 all-time in a bunch of shit

Eli Manning Was An All-Time Average QB

richig07 · Nov 13, 2019

nebearsfan70 said:
I think rule changes had a little something to do with this...

boogiewithstu2007 said:
NFL has definitely made it harder to play defense... It's frustrating because some of the tick tack rules aren't even concussion issue rules, but rather fantasy stat rules....

The rule changes were more so a "push over the hump". Which gradually began as early as the 70's when you could no longer contact a receiver further than 5 yards downfield. The 2010's isn't the only generation that saw rule changes.

However, what really set the TD/INT stuff straight was the West Coast offense. Short passing game with check downs, quick/short routes to move the chains, etc.

Prior to that the forward pass was mostly seen as a way to attack for a big gain. Passing plays didn't always have a check-down or a way out. It wasn't complex. Plays were just drawn up and you just took your shot.

This decade, teams incorporating the spread offense has facilitated even less interceptions.

CaptainStubing · Nov 13, 2019

There were a lot of rule changes in the late 70s and early 80s. Prior to that, Defenders were allowed to absolutely mug receivers. That also changed the game a lot

Pure Steel · Nov 13, 2019

CaptainStubing said:
There were a lot of rule changes in the late 70s and early 80s. Prior to that, Defenders were allowed to absolutely mug receivers. That also changed the game a lot

See: Mel Blount

nebearsfan70 · Nov 13, 2019

richig07 said:
The rule changes were more so a "push over the hump". Which gradually began as early as the 70's when you could no longer contact a receiver further than 5 yards downfield. The 2010's isn't the only generation that saw rule changes.

However, what really set the TD/INT stuff straight was the West Coast offense. Short passing game with check downs, quick/short routes to move the chains, etc.

Prior to that the forward pass was mostly seen as a way to attack for a big gain. Passing plays didn't always have a check-down or a way out. It wasn't complex. Plays were just drawn up and you just took your shot.

This decade, teams incorporating the spread offense has facilitated even less interceptions.

I was referring to all the rule changes collectively, starting will the Mel Blount Rule. But carry on...

boogiewithstu2007 · Nov 13, 2019

richig07 said:
The rule changes were more so a "push over the hump". Which gradually began as early as the 70's when you could no longer contact a receiver further than 5 yards downfield. The 2010's isn't the only generation that saw rule changes.

However, what really set the TD/INT stuff straight was the West Coast offense. Short passing game with check downs, quick/short routes to move the chains, etc.

Prior to that the forward pass was mostly seen as a way to attack for a big gain. Passing plays didn't always have a check-down or a way out. It wasn't complex. Plays were just drawn up and you just took your shot.

This decade, teams incorporating the spread offense has facilitated even less interceptions.

The no contact rule also hurt DB's in a big way back in I think it was 2004, I could be wrong, but I know it was after the Pats shut down Manning in the playoffs... They were companioning that the Patriots DB's got too physical... Then ironically they enforced that rule again after Seattle shut down the Broncos offense in SB 48 ... I guess if Manning could be shut down rules must be enforced! NFL used Manning as a measuring stick I guess...

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