Final cut thoughts

[Sharkinva]

Who are the great players they aren't starting ahead of on their current teams?

Again dude, who gives a fuck about their current teams aside from some one trying to make a point that we shouldnt have taken any of these guys. Aside from Reed who is injured... name me ONE of these guys who wouldnt start on and likely improve the Redskins defense??

 

[Sharkinva]

Kenny Clark is listed as a backup. Went to a top 15 defense
Robert Nkemdiche is listed as third string. Went to a top 10 Defense
Vernon Butler is listed as a backup. Went to a top 10 Defense
Chris Jones is listed as a backup. Went to a top 10 Defense
Austin Johnson is listed as a backup. Went to a top 15 Defense
Ashawn Robinson is listed as a third stringer and sooo many loved him here. Went to Detroit.. When is the last time the Lions Didn't fuck up a draft pick??

We were 28th in total defense, bottom ten in rushing defense. So tell me again how none of these guys would have been worth it considering our D-line consists of Baker, RJF, Golston, Ziggy fucking Hood, Kendal Reyes and an undrafted rookie.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I didn't omit the name...I just wouldn't trade Scherf for him. Leonard Williams has done very little to get the accolades he gets...especially when he was beside Muhammed Wilkerson.

I agree that it is fair to wait a bit before evaluating a DL draft class, but why are people so quick to evaluate our draft class and call it a failure. I have seen far more Cravens than I have any of the DL we could have drafted in the first or second.

That's cool, I kind of regret bringing up Scherff/Williams again. You can't fill as many holes as this team had in 2 offseasons. As for evaluating our draft call one poster called it a failure before game 1 and he was called out on it by a number of us because that's insane.

It's too early to label our class just as it's too early to evaluate this DL class. It has to be pointed out that DL typically take a year or 2 to develop ( JJ Watt had only 5 1/2 sacks as a rookie, Jason Piere Paul 4.5). This that appies to Williams as well as this draft class. In a class reported to be very strong at DL it's disappointing we didn't get any help there and this position will kill us all year.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Pre draft Manny was 'all in' on Chris Jones. He convinced me with his analysis and many of you will remember that I posted many times about him and he's really the only player that I wished we'd taken. Hind sight and all that PLUS the player you got has to be rolled into the assessment. But I will follow his progress with interest. I think he's going to be a beast. He was Preston Smiths teammate and flashed many of the exact same traits.


Manny Benton article from Breaking Burgundy...


Scot McCloughan could regret not drafting a Defensive Lineman higher in the 2016 Draft

NFL Network's Mike Mayock has covered the draft since 2005. He considered this past draft's DL group, the "best he's ever seen." Mayock wasn't alone in his analysis as nearly every draft guru said the same. It was a great draft for teams that needed defensive line talent. Teams such as the Washington Redskins. Yet, Washington failed to even draft one until the fifth round.

This past draft was essentially the equivalent to 2014's wide receiver class, except along the defensive line. If it lives up to the hype like 2014's receiver class, then the Redskins missed out big time. Right now, I just wonder if McCloughan should have indeed put a bigger priority on the defensive line.

Of course, we know that McCloughan drafts best player available. This past draft class pretty much proved that in the first three rounds. In a way, it's hard to argue with drafting guys like Su'a Cravens in round two and Kendall Fuller in the third. They potentially obtained a ton of value with those picks. However, you do wonder if McCloughan should've addressed the defensive line round one.



Doctson practicing

WR Josh Doctson could end up being a great pick and squash that notion. But right now, the Redskins defensive line is weaker than Tony Romo's back and it's a legit concern.

Washington could have taken a guy like Mississippi State's Chris Jones, who has been a terror this preseason for the Chiefs. Pro Football Focus ranked Jones as the top 3-4 DE in the entire league this preseason. Of course, it's just preseason. But that's all we have to go on right now.

The Washington Redskins also completely traded out the fourth round obtaining a fifth round pick in 2016 and 2017. Now, maybe McCloughan has the foresight to believe that fifth round pick in 2017 could be valuable (and it may). However, Washington could have stayed there and taken another preseason standout in Willie Henry. The former Michigan state defensive lineman has tallied 1 sack, 1 QB hit, 6 QB hurries and 6 third down stops.

Washington only has fifth round pick Matt Ioannidis to show for from this draft and he didn't even make the final 53-man roster. Scot McCloughan has done a nice job since becoming GM. But in his second year, we have to wonder what his plans are for the defensive line

 

[Ruzious]

Pre draft Manny was 'all in' on Chris Jones. He convinced me with his analysis and many of you will remember that I posted many times about him and he's really the only player that I wished we'd taken. Hind sight and all that PLUS the player you got has to be rolled into the assessment. But I will follow his progress with interest. I think he's going to be a beast. He was Preston Smiths teammate and flashed many of the exact same traits.


Manny Benton article from Breaking Burgundy...


Scot McCloughan could regret not drafting a Defensive Lineman higher in the 2016 Draft

NFL Network's Mike Mayock has covered the draft since 2005. He considered this past draft's DL group, the "best he's ever seen." Mayock wasn't alone in his analysis as nearly every draft guru said the same. It was a great draft for teams that needed defensive line talent. Teams such as the Washington Redskins. Yet, Washington failed to even draft one until the fifth round.

This past draft was essentially the equivalent to 2014's wide receiver class, except along the defensive line. If it lives up to the hype like 2014's receiver class, then the Redskins missed out big time. Right now, I just wonder if McCloughan should have indeed put a bigger priority on the defensive line.

Of course, we know that McCloughan drafts best player available. This past draft class pretty much proved that in the first three rounds. In a way, it's hard to argue with drafting guys like Su'a Cravens in round two and Kendall Fuller in the third. They potentially obtained a ton of value with those picks. However, you do wonder if McCloughan should've addressed the defensive line round one.



Doctson practicing

WR Josh Doctson could end up being a great pick and squash that notion. But right now, the Redskins defensive line is weaker than Tony Romo's back and it's a legit concern.

Washington could have taken a guy like Mississippi State's Chris Jones, who has been a terror this preseason for the Chiefs. Pro Football Focus ranked Jones as the top 3-4 DE in the entire league this preseason. Of course, it's just preseason. But that's all we have to go on right now.

The Washington Redskins also completely traded out the fourth round obtaining a fifth round pick in 2016 and 2017. Now, maybe McCloughan has the foresight to believe that fifth round pick in 2017 could be valuable (and it may). However, Washington could have stayed there and taken another preseason standout in Willie Henry. The former Michigan state defensive lineman has tallied 1 sack, 1 QB hit, 6 QB hurries and 6 third down stops.

Washington only has fifth round pick Matt Ioannidis to show for from this draft and he didn't even make the final 53-man roster. Scot McCloughan has done a nice job since becoming GM. But in his second year, we have to wonder what his plans are for the defensive line

Otoh, if preseason stats meant much, Jackson Jeffcoat and Houston Bates would have been Pro Bowlers last year instead of 2 guys who got cut at various times last season. BPA every day, and the Skins didn't really have a position where there wasn't some need. You have to look more than year ahead when you're putting together a roster.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Otoh, if preseason stats meant much, Jackson Jeffcoat and Houston Bates would have been Pro Bowlers last year instead of 2 guys who got cut at various times last season. BPA every day, and the Skins didn't really have a position where there wasn't some need. You have to look more than year ahead when you're putting together a roster.

No argument from me there.

Impossible to determine best pick with multiple areas to fill. Evaluation comes a few years later. Also, gotta take into account the player you did choose and their play. A big what if game tbh.

Regardless, Jones will Be an interesting player to watch for me.

 

[gkekoa]

Again dude, who gives a fuck about their current teams aside from some one trying to make a point that we shouldnt have taken any of these guys. Aside from Reed who is injured... name me ONE of these guys who wouldnt start on and likely improve the Redskins defense??

Apparently you missed the point. EXAMPLES

Ashawn Robinson is behind Tyrunn Walker. Sorry but I would take almost everyone of our DL over this guy.

Austin Johnson is behind Al Woods who is a career backup.

The guys these rookies are behind on their respective teams are like the guys you are bitching about on our team.

 

[Sharkinva]

Apparently you missed the point. EXAMPLES

Ashawn Robinson is behind Tyrunn Walker. Sorry but I would take almost everyone of our DL over this guy.

Austin Johnson is behind Al Woods who is a career backup.

The guys these rookies are behind on their respective teams are like the guys you are bitching about on our team.

Keep stroking that line if you want. But the guys they are behind all started on top 15 or better defenses. Ours was a bottom 5 defense, if you dont think any of these guys would have been a better option than what we currently have, then I dont know what to tell you.

 

[gkekoa]

Keep stroking that line if you want. But the guys they are behind all started on top 15 or better defenses. Ours was a bottom 5 defense, if you dont think any of these guys would have been a better option than what we currently have, then I dont know what to tell you.

You seem to be in denial at how good these DL are. This is a new season and those DLs are different as well.

 

[Sharkinva]

You seem to be in denial at how good these DL are. This is a new season and those DLs are different as well.

IM a realist.. if Hood and Reyes were even half as good as you think, they would not have been available. RJF was a backup when we signed him last year. Goldston is what he is, an average player pressed into starting. Baker was above average, but he is no JJ Watt. Our d-line was bad last year, so I guess average would be an improvement. But seriously, if you dont think ANY of the guys you mentioned would have made this line better than the current group, well this is the second time this year I have to wonder what exactly you are full of.

 

[gkekoa]

IM a realist.. if Hood and Reyes were even half as good as you think, they would not have been available. RJF was a backup when we signed him last year. Goldston is what he is, an average player pressed into starting. Baker was above average, but he is no JJ Watt. Our d-line was bad last year, so I guess average would be an improvement. But seriously, if you dont think ANY of the guys you mentioned would have made this line better than the current group, well this is the second time this year I have to wonder what exactly you are full of.

No...you are a naysayer. You are pulling a Dean. You didn't get your way in the draft and are defending players for no other reason. Reyes has at least had 5 sacks in a season. Hood has shown flashes in his NFL career. Cravens has shown far more than any of those DL we were wanting. Yet, you are still griping about us not taking one.

Do I think one of those guys could have helped our line...as in make the team...yes. Do I know they would start...hell no. They have done nothing to make us expect them to beat anybody out. Could they...perhaps.

 

[Sharkinva]

No...you are a naysayer. You are pulling a Dean. You didn't get your way in the draft and are defending players for no other reason. Reyes has at least had 5 sacks in a season. Hood has shown flashes in his NFL career. Cravens has shown far more than any of those DL we were wanting. Yet, you are still griping about us not taking one.

Do I think one of those guys could have helped our line...as in make the team...yes. Do I know they would start...hell no. They have done nothing to make us expect them to beat anybody out. Could they...perhaps.

Dude... combined our D-line averages less than 5 sacks a season. Thats even WITH Baker getting six last year. Add in the fact that the average age of our D-line is 28 years old, Hood is on a one year deal. SO I am once again saying you are full of it to proclaim first that NONE of the players you listed would have come in and helped this team. Most would have pushed at minimum one of the guys we currently have off roster. IM fine with the guys that we did pick.. but you are full of it to say we are better of having skipped every player we could have taken on the D-line in this draft. I just happen to think that D-line was our biggest weakness going into the off season, and it remains our biggest weakness now.

 

[gkekoa]

Dude... combined our D-line averages less than 5 sacks a season. Thats even WITH Baker getting six last year. Add in the fact that the average age of our D-line is 28 years old, Hood is on a one year deal. SO I am once again saying you are full of it to proclaim first that NONE of the players you listed would have come in and helped this team. Most would have pushed at minimum one of the guys we currently have off roster. IM fine with the guys that we did pick.. but you are full of it to say we are better of having skipped every player we could have taken on the D-line in this draft. I just happen to think that D-line was our biggest weakness going into the off season, and it remains our biggest weakness now.

Shark...I never said these guys wouldn't have helped. I agree they would have pushed one of our DL off the team but that doesn't mean they would be an actual upgrade in year 1. They would make the team merely by being chosen in the second round.

What I have said is this DL class was overrated in a major way, and there is no guarantee they would start.

 

[Sharkinva]

Shark...I never said these guys wouldn't have helped. I agree they would have pushed one of our DL off the team but that doesn't mean they would be an actual upgrade in year 1. They would make the team merely by being chosen in the second round.

What I have said is this DL class was overrated in a major way, and there is no guarantee they would start.

You cant assume they wouldnt have been an upgrade in year one. And also this should be about more than just this year. Going forward, are we better off hoping Hood, Reyes and Goldston can actually play another two years, or would we have been better off with even Billings who had a good chance of being an upgrade, AND would be here for more than this season?? He was there in the 4th, and we traded away from him for what again?? OH thats right.. Matt Ioannidis who didnt make roster and looked overwhelmed, and a fifth rounder next year. But ou are right, we are in much better shape knowing that in all likelihood, one of our biggest weaknesses last year at best stayed even with its poor performance from last year. But in all reality, we will probably still be wondering why we cant stop the run or get to the passer. Again, I dont think the guys we did take in rounds 1-3 were bad moves. But even after that here were guys who likely would have helped a fuckton more than Ioannidis.


And to say the draft class was over rated is laughable. The class was deep enough that most teams felt they could reach and scramble on skill positions because the class was so deep that they COULD wait until the second, third and even 4th round and get solid D-line prospects.

 

[gkekoa]

You cant assume they wouldnt have been an upgrade in year one. And also this should be about more than just this year. Going forward, are we better off hoping Hood, Reyes and Goldston can actually play another two years, or would we have been better off with even Billings who had a good chance of being an upgrade, AND would be here for more than this season?? He was there in the 4th, and we traded away from him for what again?? OH thats right.. Matt Ioannidis who didnt make roster and looked overwhelmed, and a fifth rounder next year. But ou are right, we are in much better shape knowing that in all likelihood, one of our biggest weaknesses last year at best stayed even with its poor performance from last year. But in all reality, we will probably still be wondering why we cant stop the run or get to the passer. Again, I dont think the guys we did take in rounds 1-3 were bad moves. But even after that here were guys who likely would have helped a fuckton more than Ioannidis.


And to say the draft class was over rated is laughable. The class was deep enough that most teams felt they could reach and scramble on skill positions because the class was so deep that they COULD wait until the second, third and even 4th round and get solid D-line prospects.

And you can't assume they would be. I agree it is about more than a year, but I don't think the guys available would be anything to write home about.

I wouldn't give up either Doctson or Cravens for the guys we could have got. I wouldn't give up Fuller for Billings. I find it interesting how you say it isn't about one year but it is with Ionaidis.

Teams didn't feel like they could gamble. They just didn't see the greatness that the "talking heads" did. They too saw these guys as overrated.

 

[Sharkinva]

And you can't assume they would be. I agree it is about more than a year, but I don't think the guys available would be anything to write home about.

I wouldn't give up either Doctson or Cravens for the guys we could have got. I wouldn't give up Fuller for Billings. I find it interesting how you say it isn't about one year but it is with Ionaidis.

Teams didn't feel like they could gamble. They just didn't see the greatness that the "talking heads" did. They too saw these guys as overrated.

Dude... we didnt even give ourselves a CHANCE to improve on the D-line. But your ok with that apparently. Ioanidis wasnt even good enough to make roster when our D-line sucked aside from Baker. So if this draft class was over rated as far as D-line, what does it say that the one D-lineman we did draft ended up being not even worthy of a spot on the roster?? The only team I saw gamble was us, and I honestly think the second worst position group on this team is D-line.

 

[gkekoa]

Dude... we didnt even give ourselves a CHANCE to improve on the D-line. But your ok with that apparently. Ioanidis wasnt even good enough to make roster when our D-line sucked aside from Baker. So if this draft class was over rated as far as D-line, what does it say that the one D-lineman we did draft ended up being not even worthy of a spot on the roster?? The only team I saw gamble was us, and I honestly think the second worst position group on this team is D-line.

Kendall Reyes had 5 and 5.5 sacks in his first two seasons.
Ziggy Hood had a couple of good seasons in PITT, signed a good sized contract, and got hurt.

Ashawn's best season in college was 5.5 sacks and that was the same year Reyes did it in the pros. Reyes did it playing on a horrible line comparatively while Robinson had the luxury of playing at NFLU.

I would say let our defense play before we talk about how bad they are.

 

[Sharkinva]

Kendall Reyes had 5 and 5.5 sacks in his first two seasons.
Ziggy Hood had a couple of good seasons in PITT, signed a good sized contract, and got hurt.

Ashawn's best season in college was 5.5 sacks and that was the same year Reyes did it in the pros. Reyes did it playing on a horrible line comparatively while Robinson had the luxury of playing at NFLU.

I would say let our defense play before we talk about how bad they are.

Reyes production has dropped over the past two seasons. If he was even remotely a starter, the Chargers would have kept him.


Ziggy Hood.... at best he had some OK seasons in Pittsburgh. He got the big contract based on the fact that he was a first round pick, nothing due to production.


Do you honestly think EITHER of these guys would have made roster, let alone be in a position to start on a good defensive line?? Really... Ziggy Hood??

 

[Sharkinva]

Its funny, a couple of posters are saying.... Let our defense play before you judge them. Yet both these same posters have deemed an entire rookie class of D-lineman over rated before they have taken a single snap outside of the preseason.

We know what Goldston is... old and a backup trying to be a starter.

We know what Hood is... Average living off his first round draft pick status

RJF... Another Backup expected to start.

Reyes.... a guy who had two good years and seemed to hit the wall.

Baker... well I would say he gets a pass for the moment as the best D-lineman on one of the worst D-lines in the league.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Apparently you missed the point. EXAMPLES

Ashawn Robinson is behind Tyrunn Walker. Sorry but I would take almost everyone of our DL over this guy.

Austin Johnson is behind Al Woods who is a career backup.

The guys these rookies are behind on their respective teams are like the guys you are bitching about on our team.

And apparently you missed, or ignored, my point. So here let me help you out:

It's too early to label our class just as it's too early to evaluate this DL class. It has to be pointed out that DL typically take a year or 2 to develop ( JJ Watt had only 5 1/2 sacks as a rookie, Jason Piere Paul 4.5). This that applies to Williams as well as this draft class. In a class reported to be very strong at DL it's disappointing we didn't get any help there and this position will kill us all year.