The Time Has Come to Vote - Malik or Oz?

[randymon]

Malik over Oz.....that is just unbelievable to think would make any sense.

 

[theknight307]

The Pats had to let a lot of their "key cogs" in their machine. They were key too. Did not mean to put that in quotes. Starting with Lawyer Malloy and then later Ty Law, Richard Seymour etc etc. I felt that the key to the Broncos defense was not so much the outside rushers, but the interior guys pushing the pocket with Wolfe and Jackson. So, Jackson could be a bigger loss than we may think.

Having said that, I think Antonio Smith is ready to step in. He is pretty good imo. Also, it is rather underestimated how good it is for a QB to already know the system. If OZ gets away, we are talking about a new QB needing learn the nuances of a new offense.

Who would they get? RG3?

 

[Mingo]

Malik over Oz.....that is just unbelievable to think would make any sense.

If it is an either - or proposition - I'll take the proven commodity - over the apparent commodity. Right now - I'd say Malik is the biggest difference maker in the games last season over Oz. Who the Broncos played at QB last season didn't seem to matter -the young, inexperienced guy - or the Wiley, broken down old QB - they won in the same fashion. Who the Broncos replace Malik Jackson with is a much bigger question.

There's a big reason why both Oz and the Broncos would want a contract with middle range guarantees and top end production bonuses.

Where there is an Oz or Malik - I'd say that other teams in the league would be more willing to over pay Malik than they would be to overpay Oz. Malik might leave the team on that basis.

 

[WalkerBoh]

The Pats had to let a lot of their "key cogs" in their machine. They were key too. Did not mean to put that in quotes. Starting with Lawyer Malloy and then later Ty Law, Richard Seymour etc etc. I felt that the key to the Broncos defense was not so much the outside rushers, but the interior guys pushing the pocket with Wolfe and Jackson. So, Jackson could be a bigger loss than we may think.

Having said that, I think Antonio Smith is ready to step in. He is pretty good imo. Also, it is rather underestimated how good it is for a QB to already know the system. If OZ gets away, we are talking about a new QB needing learn the nuances of a new offense.

Who would they get? RG3?

Problem is, the Patriots weren't doing a good job at replacing talent. Here's what I'm talking about:
40 Years Of Pittsburgh Steeler Linebackers

If Antonio Smith is ready and able to step in and do what Jackson was asked to do, then we are set there. We don't have to pay for Jackson if we have his replacement on the roster. Then Elway and Co can go in and draft guys behind Smith and Wolfe. This is easier to do with defense and peripheral offensive players than it is for QB. Therefore I think Oz is far more important to this team than Malik.

 

[theknight307]

Problem is, the Patriots weren't doing a good job at replacing talent. Here's what I'm talking about:
40 Years Of Pittsburgh Steeler Linebackers

If Antonio Smith is ready and able to step in and do what Jackson was asked to do, then we are set there. We don't have to pay for Jackson if we have his replacement on the roster. Then Elway and Co can go in and draft guys behind Smith and Wolfe. This is easier to do with defense and peripheral offensive players than it is for QB. Therefore I think Oz is far more important to this team than Malik.

This is the real problem with the hard cap system. Eventually it weakens teams that draft well and build a dynasty through the draft. The Pats are rather fortunate that Brady restructures his contract in the way he does.

I guess the point is decisions are going to need to be made. Eventually it will cost us in some way.

I personally wish they kept Malik Jackson just due to that ability to push the pocket. I personally think that is what creates the real problems for QBs. The fact is if the Broncos were able to achieve all of that with well below average QB play, then what would they achieve with average QB play and a good running game.

At this point I do think we need to be very concerned
about Elway. We need to have faith in his decision making and vision.

 

[iknowftbll]

Knight,
It's true the defense carried the team to a Super Bowl win and Malik Jackson was a big part of that. But that doesn't mean they can pull it off again. Teams that have won with defense haven't repeated when bringing back the same formula the following year. I believe the defense is good enough it can absorb the loss of Jackson. They have guys who can step in and they may be able to address the loss through the draft or FA. The dropoff from Jackson to whoever replaces him is more than made up for by Osweiler being able to improve the offense over last year's offense.

Think about this: The Broncos scored just over 22 PPG, and that's counting defensive scores. The defense is still going to be very good in 2016, but imagine if the offense is able to average 24-25 PPG? They don't need to be the 2013 Broncos offense. Imagine if they drive and score or even punt instead of turning the ball over and setting up the defense for failure.

That scenario is a wrinkle in the system. It gives the league more to look at than just the defense. If the Broncos defense can be top three in yards and scoring and the offense can be top ten in these areas I believe that'll translate to another 12-4 finish (or maybe even better) and a team poised for another deep playoff run.

 

[Mingo]

Weigh that against Oz's chance at injury or regression as a player.

 

[iknowftbll]

Weigh that against Oz's chance at injury or regression as a player.

That's a fair counter but you can make that same basic argument (especially the injury argument) for any player. You build the most complete team you possibly can and I think Osweiler is a bigger part of that at this point than Jackson is.

 

[randymon]

I think some forget going into this season Denver still will have maybe the best " no fly zone " in the NFL, will still have great edge rushers even if we lose Ware as I think Ray and Barrett will be even better and solid Lb play even if Trevor is gone. Phillips will still be creative with getting push up the middle without Malik. If you think Denver can do better than Oz at qb, I sure would like to know who and don't say Cousins or Fitzpatrick because their not going anywhere and Bradford is not a smart option when he can't run either and is ready to go down for season on every hit, that your just going to plug in there at QB and run Kubiak's system. Seriously? Not thinking straight or logically if you believe Oz is more expendable than Malik. Wow ! is all I can say.

 

[Mondo Jay]

Denver won a ton of close games this year. We need to upgrade the offense. Oz is the man to make it happen.

 

[megalodon30]

If I may ammend the Osweiler choice: "gold standard QBs are the gold standard. Orton standard QBs aren't worth big money." If we can get Oz on the somewhat cheap, keep him. If another team starts a bidding war, let him walk.

 

[TDs3nOut]

The Pats had to let a lot of their "key cogs" in their machine. They were key too. Did not mean to put that in quotes. Starting with Lawyer Malloy and then later Ty Law, Richard Seymour etc etc. I felt that the key to the Broncos defense was not so much the outside rushers, but the interior guys pushing the pocket with Wolfe and Jackson. So, Jackson could be a bigger loss than we may think.

Having said that, I think Antonio Smith is ready to step in. He is pretty good imo. Also, it is rather underestimated how good it is for a QB to already know the system. If OZ gets away, we are talking about a new QB needing learn the nuances of a new offense.

Who would they get? RG3?

Good points, in my opinion. I have really taken a liking to Jackson and Smith. I'm also intrigued by the possibility that RG3 might once again play up to his potential. I realize that might not happen, but I don't know that there are two guys more likely to get him to do so than Elway and Kubiak.

 

[Mingo]

I think some forget going into this season Denver still will have maybe the best " no fly zone " in the NFL, will still have great edge rushers even if we lose Ware as I think Ray and Barrett will be even better and solid Lb play even if Trevor is gone. Phillips will still be creative with getting push up the middle without Malik. If you think Denver can do better than Oz at qb, I sure would like to know who and don't say Cousins or Fitzpatrick because their not going anywhere and Bradford is not a smart option when he can't run either and is ready to go down for season on every hit, that your just going to plug in there at QB and run Kubiak's system. Seriously? Not thinking straight or logically if you believe Oz is more expendable than Malik. Wow ! is all I can say.

Laughs monomaniacally

 

[nflbronco]

Paul, you think Thomas' best years are behind him ?

This

Also Von situation QB situation needing big $$$$ if we add Thomas too lots of money put into 3 guys seems unlikely. Just my view

 

[Mingo]

Well - I thought - just for the sake of conversation - since Malik was getting his a$$ kicked in this thread - I could offer up an argument for Malik's side of the proposition.

I think the better way to too look at it is to examine the question from the perspective of the market. If the market were to offer Malik a contract over what the Broncos would be able to offer - vs - if the market were to overpay Oz if he were on the market over what the Broncos would pay for him? I think the league would more likely over reward Jackson - and look at Oz like do they really want to bet their career on a guy with 7 starts? Oz should also conclude he would likely do better in this system and with this team than trying his luck with the highest bidder's team. Jackson is the one more likely to be overpaid and gone from next season's roster than Oz - I agree with that answer.

 

[randymon]

Laughs monomaniacally

I've been

Well - I thought - just for the sake of conversation - since Malik was getting his a$$ kicked in this thread - I could offer up an argument for Malik's side of the proposition.

I think the better way to too look at it is to examine the question from the perspective of the market. If the market were to offer Malik a contract over what the Broncos would be able to offer - vs - if the market were to overpay Oz if he were on the market over what the Broncos would pay for him? I think the league would more likely over reward Jackson - and look at Oz like do they really want to bet their career on a guy with 7 starts? Oz should also conclude he would likely do better in this system and with this team than trying his luck with the highest bidder's team. Jackson is the one more likely to be overpaid and gone from next season's roster than Oz - I agree with that answer.

I think the better way to look at this Mingo is tell everyone who is going to run this offense if they lose Oz. You've been really good at pumping up Malik, let's see how you do showing us your qb solution for Denver. Can't wait.

 

[Mingo]

I've been

I think the better way to look at this Mingo is tell everyone who is going to run this offense if they lose Oz. You've been really good at pumping up Malik, let's see how you do showing us your qb solution for Denver. Can't wait.

Trevor Siemian - Elway fell in love with him - but needed a season to get him ready.

Last preseason Siemian looked more confident and steady than Oz - I think the Broncos like him.

 

[Orange Crush77]

I dig Mingo's thinking outside the box

 

[SpiritOf77]

The goal is still the same - win the Super Bowl

I don't see what QB we could get that will give us a chance at repeating that will come cheaper than Oz

I see where Ming is going with this though - esp with the "Could we have won the SB with Tebow" thread ..

I just don't see what QB would come at such a reasonable price that could lead this team to repeat

The only QB I would get excited about coming here would be Kaepernick, and with Chip Kelly now in SF, I don't think there's any way that is happening .. And even if Kap came here, would he come at a cheaper rate than Oz ??

 

[SpringStein]

I dig Mingo's thinking outside the planet

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