2015-16 NBA Eastern Conference OFFICIAL THREAD

[bksballer89]

What are the Hawks wearing?

 

[trojanfan12]

And Gilbert paid how much luxury tax in ANY season when James wasn't on the roster??

All he's doing now is keeping his word because he'd be foolish not too with James annual opt outs.

That's what cracks me up when Wiggy starts talking this mess about Gilbert. He tries to act like Gilbert has always spent a bunch of money to try and keep the Cavs relevant. Even after his letter where he promised Cavs fans that they'd win a title before Lebron, he was content to sit back, put out a lottery level roster and wait for draft picks rather than go out and spend the money to try and make good on his promise. He was collecting NBA welfare money the whole time Lebron was in Miami, instead of trying to put together a roster to beat him.

Then, he wants to say Arison is cheap for trying to preserve or create some kind of cap space so that he could attempt to improve the roster with Lebron still on the team. Meanwhile, Gilbert can't really improve the Cavs because he doesn't have the cap space.

 

[WiggyRuss]

That's what cracks me up when Wiggy starts talking this mess about Gilbert. He tries to act like Gilbert has always spent a bunch of money to try and keep the Cavs relevant. Even after his letter where he promised Cavs fans that they'd win a title before Lebron, he was content to sit back, put out a lottery level roster and wait for draft picks rather than go out and spend the money to try and make good on his promise. He was collecting NBA welfare money the whole time Lebron was in Miami, instead of trying to put together a roster to beat him.

Then, he wants to say Arison is cheap for trying to preserve or create some kind of cap space so that he could attempt to improve the roster with Lebron still on the team. Meanwhile, Gilbert can't really improve the Cavs because he doesn't have the cap space.

Again, this shows just how clueless you are. And if the Lakers had actually been proactive like the Cavs, Thunder, and now the 76'ers (and countless other teams had been) maybe they would not be digging themselves out of a huge hole right now.

Let me hold your hand through this explanation because obviously you need some big time help here. First- answer me this question- HOW DID THE CAVS GET THE PICK THAT BECAME KYRIE IRVING? did they "wait around" for NBA welfare? NOPE. They absorbed the last 2 years of Baron Davis ridiculous contract from the Los Angeles Clippers. They then waited until the new CBA and amnesty clause came out- and amnestied Davis. Total cost to Gilbert? AT least 30+ million- but he got the #1 overall pick.

Lets go to another trade where the Cavs benefitted from being under the salary cap. The Cavs dealt Ramon Sessions, and took back Luke Waltons terrible contract from the Lakers for a first round pick, and the ability to switch first round picks. Again- Gilbert takes on 2 years of Waltons awful deal in order to get ASSETS.

Lets think of another one here! You still with me? GOOD. When the Cavs absorbed Maresse Speights and Wayne Ellington from the Grizzlies to get ANOTHER first round pick (that actually had pretty good pro-Cavs protections which made it a pretty good 1st rounder). The Cavs take on salary- and take a 1st round pick for their troubles.

That strategy- that was also put into place by the Thunders beforehand, and the 76'ers subsequently- (and many other teams) is VERY SIMPLE. When you arent ready to compete because your roster is extremely young or you just started your rebuilding process and you have salary cap space you can BASICALLY RENT IT OUT TO OTHER TEAMS AND TAKE THEIR ASSESTS IN THE PROCESS. OKC worked this wonderfully in trades with the Suns, Jazz, etc. in order to get Ibaka and others. --- The Sixers the same thing- absorbing JaVale McGees terrible deal for a first rounder from Denver- absorbing those contracts from the Kings over the summer in order to get Stauskas and a first rounder.



but then again- this is Checkers- not Chess- and obviously this type of strategy just flies right over your head Trojanfan12---- all though- the Lakers even dipped their toe into the strategy when they took Linns deal and a 1st rounder from the Rockets.

Glad I could help ya through that

 

[WiggyRuss]

That's what cracks me up when Wiggy starts talking this mess about Gilbert. He tries to act like Gilbert has always spent a bunch of money to try and keep the Cavs relevant. Even after his letter where he promised Cavs fans that they'd win a title before Lebron, he was content to sit back, put out a lottery level roster and wait for draft picks rather than go out and spend the money to try and make good on his promise. He was collecting NBA welfare money the whole time Lebron was in Miami, instead of trying to put together a roster to beat him.

Then, he wants to say Arison is cheap for trying to preserve or create some kind of cap space so that he could attempt to improve the roster with Lebron still on the team. Meanwhile, Gilbert can't really improve the Cavs because he doesn't have the cap space.

And whether I think Arison is cheap or not is completely irrelevant. LeBron thought he was cheap and that Gilbert would go well beyond anything Arison was willing to spend- and of couse LeBron was right and its playing out just like that right in front of our faces.

 

[WiggyRuss]

want to hear ironic? Out of the picks the Cavs got in the Lakers/Sessions deal- one of the picks became I believe that Russian kid who was supposed to go in the lotto- and the other one was Tyler Zeller.

of course Zeller and the Russian kid were dealt, along with some other assets and Jarret Jack in a 3 way trade with the Celtics and Nets that opened up enough cap space for the Cavs to offer LeBron James a max-deal last summer--- before the trade they DID NOT have enough cap room to make LeBron a full max deal- which was a problem.

That Sessions trade provided a big time base of assets in the deal that CLEARED THE WAY FOR BRON TO GET HIS MAX IN CLEVELAND

Thanks LAKERS!


between the Clips giving us that #1 pick that became Kyrie- and the Lakers giving us assets that were used to facilitate LeBrons return I gotta say that no one city is more responsible for this new Cavs run than the city of Los Angeles! In the words of Mr. Newman- I LOVE LA! lol.............

 

[CitySushi]

Teams never want to pay the luxury tax. They do it in order to keep together a nucleus that can compete at the highest level. There is no owner that will pay the tax in order to keep a middling team in tact. That's just a bad investment, which is in none of these owners DNA to do. That's why they've accumulated the wealth that they have.

Compare that to Joe Lacob and the Warriors. From the get go, he's always insisted he's willing to pay the tax. But he never has, until this year. Why was that? Because it made no sense to go into the tax until it was known that this roster needs to be kept in tact. He stuck true to his word and is going to pay this tax as necessary.

Paying the tax or not paying the tax is neither an indicator of cheapness or dedication to greatness. It's about practicality.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Teams never want to pay the luxury tax. They do it in order to keep together a nucleus that can compete at the highest level. There is no owner that will pay the tax in order to keep a middling team in tact. That's just a bad investment, which is in none of these owners DNA to do. That's why they've accumulated the wealth that they have.

Compare that to Joe Lacob and the Warriors. From the get go, he's always insisted he's willing to pay the tax. But he never has, until this year. Why was that? Because it made no sense to go into the tax until it was known that this roster needs to be kept in tact. He stuck true to his word and is going to pay this tax as necessary.

Paying the tax or not paying the tax is neither an indicator of cheapness or dedication to greatness. It's about practicality.

I think there is some good stuff in this post- but some stuff missing from this post.

The Trailblazers are owned by Paul Allen- one of the richest men in the world- who is even hugely rich compared to his other owners and he is extremely adverse to paying the tax as pretty much a rule. If I am not mistaken he has before-in like 02/03 he paid a TON- like over 50million - but since then hasnt paid much.

Complete History Of NBA Luxury Tax Payments, 2001-2014 | ShamSports.com



now thats cool!

OKC has never paid the tax- UNTIL this year- like you said- mostly out of practicality. With the new CBA its getting more expensive though- hence the Cavs 65million dollar lux tax bill this year alone. Portland in 02/03 had that crazy year I want to say was around pippens last maybe? - and of course the Nets have the highest ever of 90M a couple years ago.

Now- keep in mind you dont compute this till the end of the year- so if the Cavs use the trade exception from the Haywood contract it still could go over 65M.....but this is an intersting chart....

Funny the Knicks have spent the most and have gotten such little results- blame that oN Isiah for the most part.

Cuban obviously is a guy who is willing to pay on nearly an annual basis to compete- but if the Mavs go into the tank- you try and clear payroll, and gain assets- and your just not gonna have a bad team---- if you have a bad team and are paying a bunch of tax you are doing something seriously wrong.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

And whether I think Arison is cheap or not is completely irrelevant. LeBron thought he was cheap and that Gilbert would go well beyond anything Arison was willing to spend- and of couse LeBron was right and its playing out just like that right in front of our faces.

This again?

How sure are you?
The example that you've used many times is the Mike Miller amnesty.

What you continually fail to acknowledge is that James was approached BEFORE it, and signed off on it for the exact reasons I've stated.

If you think that James did not sign off on it, then whats the bet?

How about 60 days off SportsHoopla??

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Again, this shows just how clueless you are. And if the Lakers had actually been proactive like the Cavs, Thunder, and now the 76'ers (and countless other teams had been) maybe they would not be digging themselves out of a huge hole right now.

Let me hold your hand through this explanation because obviously you need some big time help here. First- answer me this question- HOW DID THE CAVS GET THE PICK THAT BECAME KYRIE IRVING? did they "wait around" for NBA welfare? NOPE. They absorbed the last 2 years of Baron Davis ridiculous contract from the Los Angeles Clippers. They then waited until the new CBA and amnesty clause came out- and amnestied Davis. Total cost to Gilbert? AT least 30+ million- but he got the #1 overall pick.

Lets go to another trade where the Cavs benefitted from being under the salary cap. The Cavs dealt Ramon Sessions, and took back Luke Waltons terrible contract from the Lakers for a first round pick, and the ability to switch first round picks. Again- Gilbert takes on 2 years of Waltons awful deal in order to get ASSETS.

Lets think of another one here! You still with me? GOOD. When the Cavs absorbed Maresse Speights and Wayne Ellington from the Grizzlies to get ANOTHER first round pick (that actually had pretty good pro-Cavs protections which made it a pretty good 1st rounder). The Cavs take on salary- and take a 1st round pick for their troubles.

That strategy- that was also put into place by the Thunders beforehand, and the 76'ers subsequently- (and many other teams) is VERY SIMPLE. When you arent ready to compete because your roster is extremely young or you just started your rebuilding process and you have salary cap space you can BASICALLY RENT IT OUT TO OTHER TEAMS AND TAKE THEIR ASSESTS IN THE PROCESS. OKC worked this wonderfully in trades with the Suns, Jazz, etc. in order to get Ibaka and others. --- The Sixers the same thing- absorbing JaVale McGees terrible deal for a first rounder from Denver- absorbing those contracts from the Kings over the summer in order to get Stauskas and a first rounder.



but then again- this is Checkers- not Chess- and obviously this type of strategy just flies right over your head Trojanfan12---- all though- the Lakers even dipped their toe into the strategy when they took Linns deal and a 1st rounder from the Rockets.

Glad I could help ya through that

Lot's of words, but I'll sum up how stupid it is in 1 sentence.


The odds of the Cavs getting the #1 pick in which they acquired Kyrie was 1.7%.

 

[WiggyRuss]

This again?

How sure are you?
The example that you've used many times is the Mike Miller amnesty.

What you continually fail to acknowledge is that James was approached BEFORE it, and signed off on it for the exact reasons I've stated.

If you think that James did not sign off on it, then whats the bet?

How about 60 days off SportsHoopla??

It is not a secret James was frustrated with Heat owner Micky Arison's cost cutting his final year in Miami. He used the amnesty clause to waive Mike Miller, didn't use the mid-level exception and used a first-round pick in a trade not to add talent but to offload salary at midseason.

Windhorst: LeBron looks for Miami formula in Cleveland

thats good enough for me! sorry if you continue to not like it!

 

[WiggyRuss]

Lot's of words, but I'll sum up how stupid it is in 1 sentence.


The odds of the Cavs getting the #1 pick in which they acquired Kyrie was 1.7%.

yah- the Cavs were getting an UNPROTECTED first round pick that was at the very least going to be a top 10 pick- and of course BEING UNPROTECTED had the potential to be much much more. Gilbert took on that ridiculous contract of Davis' despite his knees being pretty much shot to inject another lotto pick into the team. Hence Thompson AND Irving! man its nice to have an owner who will eat 40 million dollars in Baron Davis' contract just to get a solid lotto pick!

Notice how teams just DONT TRADE unprotected picks anymore--- well- other than what i saw the Heat give the Suns but Riley will be long gone before those become due.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

yah- the Cavs were getting an UNPROTECTED first round pick that was at the very least going to be a top 10 pick- and of course BEING UNPROTECTED had the potential to be much much more. Gilbert took on that ridiculous contract of Davis' despite his knees being pretty much shot to inject another lotto pick into the team. Hence Thompson AND Irving! man its nice to have an owner who will eat 40 million dollars in Baron Davis' contract just to get a solid lotto pick!

Notice how teams just DONT TRADE unprotected picks anymore--- well- other than what i saw the Heat give the Suns but Riley will be long gone before those become due.

I think he just thought Baron Davis might get him into the playoffs.
No way to know, but anytime you use something as an example that had a 1.7% of happening, I'd rethink it.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

It is not a secret James was frustrated with Heat owner Micky Arison's cost cutting his final year in Miami. He used the amnesty clause to waive Mike Miller, didn't use the mid-level exception and used a first-round pick in a trade not to add talent but to offload salary at midseason.

Windhorst: LeBron looks for Miami formula in Cleveland

thats good enough for me! sorry if you continue to not like it!

Of course it's good enough for you because all the time you cite poor journalism vs fact.

BTW, did you like the ending to Canes game?
That was unreal.


Anyway, if it's good enough for you, then why not bet?
You afraid that I can document when/where it's KNOWN that James didn't give a shit??

 

[WiggyRuss]

I think he just thought Baron Davis might get him into the playoffs.
No way to know, but anytime you use something as an example that had a 1.7% of happening, I'd rethink it.

are you insane? lol. He ate Baron Davis' deal and got him on the Cavs because he thought Baron Davis would be part of a winning team? LOL......dude...your outta your element here. Please READ SOMETHING before embarrassing yourself with such a stupid comment again.

I mean there is not even a question here

an unnamed Cavs source told ESPN.com that the trade was made primarily for the draft pick.

"We know we're going to have to build this team through the lottery," ESPN reported the source said. "We hope Baron works out, but our primary focus was the pick. We really wanted two top-10 picks to infuse the team with young talent."

its just like those 2 other deals with the Lakers and Griz------ give me your trash- ill take your draft assets- and have a nice day.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Of course it's good enough for you because all the time you cite poor journalism vs fact.

BTW, did you like the ending to Canes game?
That was unreal.


Anyway, if it's good enough for you, then why not bet?
You afraid that I can document when/where it's KNOWN that James didn't give a shit??

my brother told me about it. Im kinda screwed these next few weeks between my job, having to work at the college of laws "clinic" and getting 90 pro bono hours this semester, and classes---- I basically have 2 jobs where I have to get like 20-25 hours a week in - PLUS CLASS....plus starting bar review every Saturday from 9 to 1....so yah my life is pretty much destroyed right now.

 

[WiggyRuss]

CLEVELAND, OH - December 14, 2011 - The Cleveland Cavaliers have waived guard Baron Davis and designated him as the team’s amnesty player, Cavaliers General Manager Chris Grant announced today from Cleveland Clinic Courts.

“We would like to thank Baron for his contributions to the team during his time in Cleveland,” said General Manager Chris Grant. “He has been an absolute professional since the day he joined the Cavs and we now wish him the best in the future.”

Davis, 32, was acquired from the Los Angeles Clippers on Feb. 24th along with a first round pick in exchange for guard Mo Williams and guard/forward Jamario Moon.


Baron was amnestied less than a year later- and the Cavs rebuilding project got a huge shot in the arm having both the 1st and 4th pick in the draft.......As much as i Like TT---- I wanted Klay at that spot....and of course Kawhi went later as well...as well as Butler MUCH later on...a lot of scrubs taken i nthe top 10 though- Vesley , jimmer i think, and a few others.

 

[WiggyRuss]

On February 24, 2011, the Cavaliers traded Mo Williams and Jamario Moon to the Los Angeles Clippers for Baron Davis and an unprotected first-round pick.

The Clippers missed the playoffs that year, making that unprotected pick a lottery selection. With only a 2.8 percent chance going in, it ended up being the first overall pick in the NBA draft.

The Cavaliers would use the amnesty clause on Baron Davis' ridiculous contract to gain more cap flexibility, and, of course, gained the privilege to draft Kyrie Irving.

Kyrie has, by far, been the best player in last year's draft. He won Rookie of the Year and may be the game's best young up-and-coming point guard.

As for the Clippers, they would waive Jamario Moon during the offseason, and Mo Williams was traded.

at least get it right! 1.7% was the Wiggins #1!!! YEEEHAWWW!!! dont worry i have come to expect having to correct you on stuff like that.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

On February 24, 2011, the Cavaliers traded Mo Williams and Jamario Moon to the Los Angeles Clippers for Baron Davis and an unprotected first-round pick.

The Clippers missed the playoffs that year, making that unprotected pick a lottery selection. With only a 2.8 percent chance going in, it ended up being the first overall pick in the NBA draft.

The Cavaliers would use the amnesty clause on Baron Davis' ridiculous contract to gain more cap flexibility, and, of course, gained the privilege to draft Kyrie Irving.

Kyrie has, by far, been the best player in last year's draft. He won Rookie of the Year and may be the game's best young up-and-coming point guard.

As for the Clippers, they would waive Jamario Moon during the offseason, and Mo Williams was traded.

at least get it right! 1.7% was the Wiggins #1!!! YEEEHAWWW!!! dont worry i have come to expect having to correct you on stuff like that.

You are correct, I mixed up the 1.7 and 2.8, but either way if you were bright enough..you would have gotten the point.

And not sure other than this when you have ever been correct trying to correct me...

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

And...I know Cavs wanted pick more then Baron ...but don't tell me that they didn't think they would get some production from Davis and thought they were upgrading their chances at the time.

 

[bksballer89]

Jabari Parker is activated tonight