Chris Harris said Wilson is better than Luck

[Uhsplit]

What argument can be made that Wilson is better than Luck?

Start at the 1st page and you will find your answer.
Report back to us once you see the light.

 

[gohusk]

So what. You think Wilson would have been the only one to win a super bowl with that team? Face it, Luck has yet to be surrounded with a good team and Wilson has the best supporting cast in the league.

No one is saying Wilson isn't a good quarterback who will eventually be great. He will be. But his current role is basically Tom Brady when he was winning super bowls. Throw it 15-20 times a game, don't turn it over, and let your running game and defense win you the game.

Better supporting cast? Golden Tate and two undrafted guys at WR, and a completely banged up offensive line in the toughest pass rushing division in football. How is that having great things around him? There's no telling what Luck could have done with this team because they're two different QB's. But don't tell me some guy with a sub 90 career passer rating would clearly have lead the Seahawks to the Super Bowl because it's nothing but a crock of shit.

 

[Uhsplit]

I'm confused.

the fail mary was one of Wilson comeback wins....right or wrong? If it is one of his comeback wins then it is very relevant to the post that I was responding to when bringing up the fail mary.

There was nothing quite like being in The Clink when Mary came along.
It was a spectacular comeback win. I loved it.

 

[flyerhawk]

I'm curious to know how many points the defense allowed in those 11 games. If I had to take a guess, I would say that in at least 8 of those 11 they probably allowed fewer than 21 points....What I'm saying basically is that in most of those comeback wins the defense was not the issue but the offense lack of scoring was.

Example #1- Last year in Carolina the defense allowed 7 points but unfortunately Wilson and the offense was only able to score 6 points in the first 3 quarters.

Example #2- In Houston last year when Wilson had absolutely nothing to do with sending the game to OT as Sherman was the one who tied it on a pick 6 late in the 4th.

Example #3- NFC title game- San Fran only had 17 points but the Seattle offense only scored 13 through 3 quarters.

Example #4- Fail Mary game....No need to explain that garbage

Should I continue? In most of Wilson comeback wins, the defense did their job but the offense was MIA for the most part.

Well we could talk about the Detroit game a couple of years ago where Wilson led the team down the field and scored a TD. The Lions get it back and march down the field and score a TD with 7 seconds left in the game. So he doesn't get credit for that game winning drive because the defense failed him.

Or we could talk about his first pro game where he put the ball into the receivers hands twice in the end zone with time running out and the receivers dropped both of them.

Or we could talk about the 2012 divisional round when Wilson led the offense two 3 2nd half scores including the game leading score with less than 2 minutes left only to watch the defense give up 60 yards in about 40 seconds to allow the game winning field goal.

Or we could talk about the Bears game in which Wilson marched down the field and scored the game leading TD only to watch his defense, again, given up a TD with less than a minute and a half of time left. He got credit for that one because once again he took the ball in overtime, marched down the field for the game winning TD.

Speaking of overtime, Wilson has been in 4 of them. In the 2 that the Seahawks got the ball first he has scored a TD on the first drive(Den, Chi). In the other 2 he led them to a game winning field after the defense stopped the other team. He has scored on 4 out of 5 possessions in overtime. Needless to say he is 4-0 in overtimes.

Oh one last thing. Your comment that most teams would love to see their defense only given 20 points going into the fourth is more than a little silly. Prorate that value over 4 quarters and that is well below league average points allowed(20 points in 3 quarters results in roughly 27 points in a game or roughly 426 points a game. League average points allowed was roughly 374 points or roughly 24 points a game)

Cherry picking a narrative isn't helpful.

 

[BSUSeahawk]

I never said there weren't any fans at all... but say what you want. I watched the culture change here in a blink. It went from the the majority of people not giving a crap about the Seahawks... to the majority being die hard fans all of a sudden.

This is simply not true.

 

[gohusk]

I love these threads. Listening to people talk about the talent around Wilson you'd think he pulled a Matt Cassel inheriting an 18-1 team or something. The Hawks were 7-9 with one of the worst passing offenses in the league when he came aboard so please don't tell me that he walked into some great situation. If it were that easy then they would have never drafted him because TJax would have been more than enough. But the reality was that he was having a hard time keeping his starting job over Clipboard Jesus because he was so bad, even with all of that great talent he apparently had to work with.

 

[BSUSeahawk]

I love these threads. Listening to people talk about the talent around Wilson you'd think he pulled a Matt Cassel inheriting an 18-1 team or something. The Hawks were 7-9 with one of the worst passing offenses in the league when he came aboard so please don't tell me that he walked into some great situation. If it were that easy then they would have never drafted him because TJax would have been more than enough. But the reality was that he was having a hard time keeping his starting job over Clipboard Jesus because he was so bad, even with all of that great talent he apparently had to work with.

Went from 7-9 to 11-5 and the only major additions were from the draft class.

 

[Uhsplit]

This is simply not true.

He's a troll. Best to avoid responses.

I need to remind myself of that.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Andrew Luck is the 12th to 15th best QB in the NFL. Russell Wilson is the 3rd to 5th best QB in the NFL.

And all I did was post stats and attributes. Obviously, stats are real. They are directly related to performance. And which one of those attributes favor Luck?

Saying "you are a homer" isn't an argument. It's a conclusion. But that's to be expected because thinking Luck is better than Wilson isn't supported by arguments. It is supported only as a conclusion, and an irrational one at that.

 

[Tech_God]

He's a troll. Best to avoid responses.

I need to remind myself of that.

Ditto. I need to remind myself as well.

 

[Desean12345]

Better supporting cast? Golden Tate and two undrafted guys at WR, and a completely banged up offensive line in the toughest pass rushing division in football. How is that having great things around him? There's no telling what Luck could have done with this team because they're two different QB's. But don't tell me some guy with a sub 90 career passer rating would clearly have lead the Seahawks to the Super Bowl because it's nothing but a crock of shit.

Luck has had a shitty o-line his whole career as well. Wilson has a far better defense and running game. Coaching is even but Carroll is damn good coach.

Even with the receivers, last year Luck's best receiver was Hilton. Is he better than Golden Tate? Maybe. He's not better than a healthy Percy Harvin this year. He has Wayne back, but he's coming off an ACL injury and is waay past his prime.

 

[jakedog56]

Luck has had a shitty o-line his whole career as well. Wilson has a far better defense and running game. Coaching is even but Carroll is damn good coach.

Even with the receivers, last year Luck's best receiver was Hilton. Is he better than Golden Tate? Maybe. He's not better than a healthy Percy Harvin this year. He has Wayne back, but he's coming off an ACL injury and is waay past his prime.

Seattle's pass blocking is now and has been worse than Indy's the last couple of years (I know that is hard to believe because Indy's pass blocking sucks also but check OL ratings and you will see)and I really fail to see how a better D has anything to do with QB performance.

I agree on the running game but Indy does not even attempt to run the ball. They bail on the running game early and just throw it 45-50 times a game so no one to blame but themselves on that count.

 

[jakedog56]

What argument can be made that Wilson is better than Luck?

Again:

Luck career: 58.1% completions, 6.88 yards per attempt, 55 tds and 30 ints (1.83 TD to INT ratio); 83.5 passer rating

Wilson career: 64.1% completions, 8.03 yards per attempt, 58 tds and 20 ints (2.9 TD to INT ratio); 101.4 passer rating

Before you accuse me of picking stats, it is widely held that yards per attempt, completion percentage, and TD to INT ratio are considered the best statisics to evaluate QB play, and passer rating (not the ill-fated total QB rating) is a stats based rating approved and used by the NFL.

Luck has improved and is off to a very good start this year and this might be his breakthrough but his career to this point has had people impressed with his potential more than his actual performance, which is often great but has been very inconsistent. Wilson has put up less yards but has shown the ability to consistently make the correct decision more than Luck has to this point.

 

[chf]

I never said there weren't any fans at all... but say what you want. I watched the culture change here in a blink. It went from the the majority of people not giving a crap about the Seahawks... to the majority being die hard fans all of a sudden.

Sure, and I said that in my post. Just like everybody and their dog (not just in those towns either) was a Cowboys or a 9er fan during their heyday.

But there has always been a loud and passionate CORE of fans in the NW.

Why anyone is surprised at everyone jumping on the bandwagon is beyond me. What would Cleveland fans do if the Browns won a Lombardi? People would lose their minds.

What would be wrong with that?

 

[chf]

No one is saying Wilson isn't a good quarterback who will eventually be great. He will be. But his current role is basically Tom Brady when he was winning super bowls. Throw it 15-20 times a game, don't turn it over, and let your running game and defense win you the game.

And again, let's take the Superbowl. Who was it getting 1st downs in the first half, when the momentum was still up in the air?

It wasn't Lynch.

Are they ASKING Wilson to throw 40 times a game? Nope. Are they asking him to pass to set up the run? Yep, have been for nearly 2 full seasons now.

 

[sonnyblack65]

I love these threads. Listening to people talk about the talent around Wilson you'd think he pulled a Matt Cassel inheriting an 18-1 team or something. The Hawks were 7-9 with one of the worst passing offenses in the league when he came aboard so please don't tell me that he walked into some great situation. If it were that easy then they would have never drafted him because TJax would have been more than enough. But the reality was that he was having a hard time keeping his starting job over Clipboard Jesus because he was so bad, even with all of that great talent he apparently had to work with.

Aint it and poster saying Brady was surrounded by talent. Branch, Givens, Brown wow inherited the 5-11 team ( 2000) and 0-2 when he too over to win the SB. Luck has some serious weapons on offense and Manning always did. Obviously you need a very good to great D to compete and both Seattle and Denver have them, so likely face off again unless an AZ or Cinci has other plans

 

[Scooby-Doo]

I don't like if's. The Seahawks started from scratch, decided to start Wilson as a rookie, and now they're defending Super Bowl champs. Where's the if's with that?

I was being sarcastic. Point being, you could. "If" any scenario and make it turn out the way you want. Your exactly right. It's a fact that the Seahawks won the SB with Wilson and with an all around better team.

Now when we're talking percentages, in terms of a QB, I believe the vast majority of NFL knowledgable fans, players, coaches, etc.would take Luck over Wilson pre or post SB victory. I would say to the tune of 70% in the favor of Luck. Do you agree?

 

[Manning2Luck_uJelly]

In 2012, Luck AVERAGED 39 pass attempts per game. In 2013, Luck AVERAGED 35 pass attempts per game.

Conversely, Wilson has been asked to throw over 30 times in a game 6 times in his CAREER.

 

[Manning2Luck_uJelly]

..... Seahawk fans are consumed with this massive inferiority complex.

Couldn't have said it better myself.....lol

 

[Smart]

So where is any correlation, much less proof, that more throws or a worse defense leads to worse efficiency stats? It's the only argument advanced by Luck-backers in this entire 14 page thread, and yet it's a conclusion which they can't support with any evidence.