Rak and Riley Update

[gkekoa]

Not talking about original contracts. Im talking about situations where a guy signs on a below market deal and ends up in the Pro Bowl, or being a key part of the team. I realize rookie deals are structured to protect the team these days. And either way I still think this team has for a long time taken a fundamentally ass backwards approach to it. Be as cheap as possible with your own and throw money at other peoples stars. Im hoping they will be as frugal next week as they are being with Rak and Riley. But deep down, I doubt it.

How about the deals where they take guaranteed money but don't really earn that? That's the give and take. They want guaranteed money and organizations would rather they earn it. So that's the compromise. I'd gladly offer Riley a contract that states we will pay you 1 million dollars/year in salary, plus 1 million for 120 tackles, 2 million for 130 tackles, 3 million for 140 tackles, 4 million for 150 tackles. We will give you a bonus of 1 million for the pro-bowl, 250,000 for 2 INTs, 1 million for 5. And we will give you a bonus of 250,000 for 2 FF, and 1 million for 5. Want to bet he wouldn't accept that?

 

[Sharkinva]

How about the deals where they take guaranteed money but don't really earn that? That's the give and take. They want guaranteed money and organizations would rather they earn it. So that's the compromise. I'd gladly offer Riley a contract that states we will pay you 1 million dollars/year in salary, plus 1 million for 120 tackles, 2 million for 130 tackles, 3 million for 140 tackles, 4 million for 150 tackles. We will give you a bonus of 1 million for the pro-bowl, 250,000 for 2 INTs, 1 million for 5. And we will give you a bonus of 250,000 for 2 FF, and 1 million for 5. Want to bet he wouldn't accept that?

Of course not, considering how many players have had simple incentives like games played or other performance based things, and teams have been nice enough to sit healthy players the last two games so that said named player does not reach those incentives. Also have to consider that if these guys get hurt, the teams usually have no qualms about releasing them as soon as they can.

 

[gkekoa]

Of course not, considering how many players have had simple incentives like games played or other performance based things, and teams have been nice enough to sit healthy players the last two games so that said named player does not reach those incentives. Also have to consider that if these guys get hurt, the teams usually have no qualms about releasing them as soon as they can.

That's why it's a fair trade off. Guaranteed money protects the player. If you get more guaranteed money, you deserve a lower salary. It's basically insurance.

 

[Sharkinva]

That's why it's a fair trade off. Guaranteed money protects the player. If you get more guaranteed money, you deserve a lower salary. It's basically insurance.

You are basically proposing a sales and commission based contract. Unfortunately, if you have a bad day at the office in sales, you arent usually risking your ability to walk and chew bubble gum. What you suggest would be great. Except the only players you would get to play for that in todays NFL are the guys who will be bagging groceries come Christmas.

 

[Sleepy T]

Vinny Rey played well last season as a starter. He's cheap with upside that is capable of starting.

Don't know much about Rey, but I read somewhere that he should have remained the starter even after Mauluga (sp?) came back from injury.

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

If rack don't sign the fran tag wich he did not that means he going'going to sit out till a deal is done I don't expect rackpo back till october

 

[TCB]

Now that we got done with fantasy class, here is what i honestly expect to happen with Riley.

The Butler deal this year, along with the Lee and ellerbe deals last year have pretty much set the ceiling. the Jackson deal basically just set the floor. Now Riley will go out and explore, and the Skins will bring guys in to talk to. Riley will realize what all these ILBs are going to realize, its a limited market and a sellers market because of it. So I expect ALL of them to come in asking for some where in the range of $5.5-7 million a year. No one considering themselves a legit starter is going to accept an offer to play on the cheap. Mean While the Redskins are also going to see this and need to decide, do we pay a starter ( Two of them actually) between $5.5 and 7 million each, or do try to go cheap and grab some ones backup and hope he can start and risk it. In the end, Riley will play for some where around $5-6 million a year in DC, you will all bitch that he was over paid and life will go on. OR, the Skins will pay that kind of money for two other ILBs, the defense will look even more lost for a good part of the season andddd... you guys will bitch.

I think you should take a deep breath. He wants to play hardball because he has leverage.
The Skins need to show that they will not take the bait. If he wants to stay for 5 million a year fine, but don't hurt the team because he wants to have his agent drain our cap when we need to sign multiple players, and he is at best a good player.

 

[Sharkinva]

I think you should take a deep breath. He wants to play hardball because he has leverage.
The Skins need to show that they will not take the bait. If he wants to stay for 5 million a year fine, but don't hurt the team because he wants to have his agent drain our cap when we need to sign multiple players, and he is at best a good player.

TC... I think IM one of the few people looking at this logically from both sides. I agree the Skins should not over pay for any player. But there is also a market value. And right now thats some where between $5.5 to 7 million. People saying Riley is worth no more than $3.5 is crap. Because unlike some guy you bring in that was a backup you hope can start, we already know he can start and play well in OUR defense. To me that has added value, and alot more value than throwing money at some one elses "play maker". And you are right, he does have leverage. The Skins do need him as much as people want to say he is just average. The Skins are better off NOT having to teach two new ILBs or hoping Will Compton is ready to start. I say this and I am actually a huge Compton fan. But he isnt ready to start.

 

[deanpet21]

Riley is going to want the Butler deal. Simple as that. We pay or we don't. With the increased cap Riley is going to get his money. Doesn't mean he is worth it but he will get it.

 

[gkekoa]

You are basically proposing a sales and commission based contract. Unfortunately, if you have a bad day at the office in sales, you arent usually risking your ability to walk and chew bubble gum. What you suggest would be great. Except the only players you would get to play for that in todays NFL are the guys who will be bagging groceries come Christmas.

I never really proposed it. I said before a player would never do that contract. You asked about guys overplaying their contract so I countered with an exaggerated contract.

 

[gkekoa]

TC... I think IM one of the few people looking at this logically from both sides. I agree the Skins should not over pay for any player. But there is also a market value. And right now thats some where between $5.5 to 7 million. People saying Riley is worth no more than $3.5 is crap. Because unlike some guy you bring in that was a backup you hope can start, we already know he can start and play well in OUR defense. To me that has added value, and alot more value than throwing money at some one elses "play maker". And you are right, he does have leverage. The Skins do need him as much as people want to say he is just average. The Skins are better off NOT having to teach two new ILBs or hoping Will Compton is ready to start. I say this and I am actually a huge Compton fan. But he isnt ready to start.

I said his value it 3.5. I said I would pay 5.

 

[Sharkinva]

I said his value it 3.5. I said I would pay 5.

Then we disagree. #.5 is what you would expect to pay for a guy who had shown promise in limited starts.. kinda like Ellerbe last year, who I will agree got over paid. For a three year starter who has been solid to above average in those three years, $5 mill is base I would think. I would love it if we could get every player for $2 million a year. But thats not the NFL we live with. And contracts and what guys are asking for is based off of what the last guy got paid. So in this case I think Some one is going to pay riley what Jackson just got per year, maybe more. Might not be the redskins. BUt there are atleast Seven teams looking for starting ILB's, and only about 5-6 guys worth starting. And we currently need TWO starters. Supply and demand. As the supply dwindles, demand goes up. Dont be too shocked if the first name we hear talking to Riley is the Giants by the way.

 

[gkekoa]

Then we disagree on something...that he's been above average.

 

[gkekoa]

There are about 30 guys I'd rather have over Riley. He's very, very average.


Here are Riley's rankings among LBs in very telling categories:
Combined Tackles- 26th
Solo Tackles- 30th
INTs- Tied for 27th with about 50 other players
FF- Tied for 99th...with 0


He was better in PDEF tied at 14th.

 

[Sharkinva]

There are about 30 guys I'd rather have over Riley. He's very, very average.


Here are Riley's rankings among LBs in very telling categories:
Combined Tackles- 26th
Solo Tackles- 30th
INTs- Tied for 27th with about 50 other players
FF- Tied for 99th...with 0


He was better in PDEF tied at 14th.

Simple question... how many of those 30 guys are available??

 

[gkekoa]

Simple question... how many of those 30 guys are available??

It doesn't matter how many are available. He's not worth the money.

 

[Sharkinva]

It doesn't matter how many are available. He's not worth the money.

Neither were Lee, Ellerbe or Butler.

 

[gkekoa]

When Sean Lee is healthy, he's one of the best in the league. Thankfully, he's never healthy.

 

[Sharkinva]

When Sean Lee is healthy, he's one of the best in the league. Thankfully, he's never healthy.

Which is why he isnt worth the deal he got. Cant help the club from the trainers tub. And what makes Lee a "Play Maker" is that Dallas has him play pass coverage exclusively. He has zero sacks in 4 years as an ILB.

 

[gkekoa]

Do you believe Riley did anything special on any of his sacks? Did he use a pass rush move, or was he just unblocked?