Rak and Riley Update

[gkekoa]

I'd pay Talib 5 million over Riley. I don't want Talib though.


The value of a CB is greater than the value of an ILB. Talib is better at his position than Riley is at his...and it's not close.

 

[Sharkinva]

I'd pay Talib 5 million over Riley. I don't want Talib though.


The value of a CB is greater than the value of an ILB. Talib is better at his position than Riley is at his...and it's not close.

Sorry dude, but its apparent we look at players differently. I place value on a guys ability to be on the field. And a guy who is one screw up from the long suspension to me is NOT worth $5 million a year. Where as a guy who has stayed healthy, stayed out of trouble, and stayed on the field for US is worth alot more to me.

 

[gkekoa]

Did Talib get in trouble last season? NOPE.


Riley is simply not that good at a position that doesn't typically make a great deal of money. There are a ton of Rileys out there.

 

[Sharkinva]

Did Talib get in trouble last season? NOPE.


Riley is simply not that good at a position that doesn't typically make a great deal of money. There are a ton of Rileys out there.

Talib has already had two strikes. Third one is a mandatory 1 year suspension, and with the way Godell is rolling.. one year means forever. So no thanks.

As for Riley.. John Kiem said it best... the ILB pool in FA is not very deep this year. And while there are guys who might be better or just as good, these same guys might be worse or unavailable. Some times the devil you know is worth more to you than the devil you dont. Some times you are better off paying a little more for a guy who is solid but not spectacular rather than going a little cheaper on a new player.

 

[j_y19]

Riley may the best fit for us if looking for what is available via FA, but that doesn't mean you pay him more than he is worth. Shark, he just isn't that good. Don't get me wrong, he is an OK player and is of some value to us, but he is not an elite player and probably never will be. You make him a fair offer. IF he thinks he is worth more, let him prove it. Just because he tries out the FA waters doesn't mean he is leaving. You have this belief that if we let him test the waters, he is gone. That has not been the case with this team since Allen showed up. If fact, Allen has let numerous players over the last 4 years test the water and all but one have come back to us. Allen has earned the right to have some leeway from us in how he negotiates with these players. He seems to be very capable when it comes to negotiating contracts and getting fair value without burning bridges.

 

[deanpet21]

I am so curious in what Butler got from the Chargers.

 

[gkekoa]

Talib has already had two strikes. Third one is a mandatory 1 year suspension, and with the way Godell is rolling.. one year means forever. So no thanks.

As for Riley.. John Kiem said it best... the ILB pool in FA is not very deep this year. And while there are guys who might be better or just as good, these same guys might be worse or unavailable. Some times the devil you know is worth more to you than the devil you dont. Some times you are better off paying a little more for a guy who is solid but not spectacular rather than going a little cheaper on a new player.

Paying Riley 7 million a year is not "a little more" than he's worth. It's twice as much. I don't care how deep the pool is, you don't overpay him. He's not going to win us the SB next season.

 

[TCB]

Rak ain't worth over 10 million. Too many games we see the 1st quarter sack then never hear his name again all game. Makes you wonder if his motivation changed after getting his quota

 

[Sharkinva]

Riley may the best fit for us if looking for what is available via FA, but that doesn't mean you pay him more than he is worth. Shark, he just isn't that good. Don't get me wrong, he is an OK player and is of some value to us, but he is not an elite player and probably never will be. You make him a fair offer. IF he thinks he is worth more, let him prove it. Just because he tries out the FA waters doesn't mean he is leaving. You have this belief that if we let him test the waters, he is gone. That has not been the case with this team since Allen showed up. If fact, Allen has let numerous players over the last 4 years test the water and all but one have come back to us. Allen has earned the right to have some leeway from us in how he negotiates with these players. He seems to be very capable when it comes to negotiating contracts and getting fair value without burning bridges.

j_y... I think you miss my point. If the teams tells him to test out the FA waters I hope for his sake he does leave. This team has show a long standing habit of taking care of other teams players and lowballing our own. I think he is one of the better ILBs on the market, better than Butler and better than Ellerbe. And bottom line you want to build a team where guys want to get drafted here and want to play here their entire careers... real Redskins. then fucking start taking care of our OWN for once instead of doing what we normally do and taking care of and lusting after every one elses players.

 

[Sportster 72]

Riley may the best fit for us if looking for what is available via FA, but that doesn't mean you pay him more than he is worth. Shark, he just isn't that good. Don't get me wrong, he is an OK player and is of some value to us, but he is not an elite player and probably never will be. You make him a fair offer. IF he thinks he is worth more, let him prove it. Just because he tries out the FA waters doesn't mean he is leaving. You have this belief that if we let him test the waters, he is gone. That has not been the case with this team since Allen showed up. If fact, Allen has let numerous players over the last 4 years test the water and all but one have come back to us. Allen has earned the right to have some leeway from us in how he negotiates with these players. He seems to be very capable when it comes to negotiating contracts and getting fair value without burning bridges.

Part of this game is players playing to earn a big contract. Orakpo sees himself as one of the best OLBs in the game. Management and most others see him as a very good OLB but not quite as good as Orakpo sees himself. Orakpo is worth having back but at the proper salary. I agree that Allen has earned the right to let this play out. If someone wants to play Orakpo crazy money then that is fine and good for him. Still we shouldn't overpay to say we kept someone. It has taken way too long for this team to be fiscally responsible. That is something Allen excels at. I am going to believe in him in this regard.

 

[j_y19]

j_y... I think you miss my point. If the teams tells him to test out the FA waters I hope for his sake he does leave. This team has show a long standing habit of taking care of other teams players and lowballing our own. I think he is one of the better ILBs on the market, better than Butler and better than Ellerbe. And bottom line you want to build a team where guys want to get drafted here and want to play here their entire careers... real Redskins. then fucking start taking care of our OWN for once instead of doing what we normally do and taking care of and lusting after every one elses players.

Why would you hope that? What is wrong with telling a player that we disagree on their value and the best course for both is to lets see what the market will bear? This doesn't mean we are coveting anyone else more than him (BTW, I agree that Riley may be one of the better ILBs on the market, but this year's crop of ILBs is pretty weak) but we are just at a crossroads and need some more data from the market to come to an agreement. I just don't see anything wrong with that strategy. You seem to believe that by doing this, we are dissing Riley. I just don't agree. It can be done professionally (Allen has done this multiple times with the likes of Fletcher, Moss, Hall and others) so that once everyone understands what the market will bear, a deal can be struck.

FInally, when in the last 4 years has Allen not taken care of "our own" over outside FAs? This used to be standard fare under Danny/Vinny, but those days ended 4 years ago. Different regime now.

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

I'm throwing this out there in 2 more years rg3 if he becomes great he would want at least 16-20 mill a year' but I'm hearing by 2016 the cap would be around 150 million. Maybe they won't pay reily and rack because of rg3 new'contract in 2 years

 

[Sleepy T]

The key to that is "If he becomes great". And if he does, he deserves that $$$$.

But IMHO, I doubt this has anything to do with RG3 or any other future contract for that matter. I think it is more about paying them what the FO considers a fair price\contract based on their performance.

 

[gkekoa]

Why would you hope that? What is wrong with telling a player that we disagree on their value and the best course for both is to lets see what the market will bear? This doesn't mean we are coveting anyone else more than him (BTW, I agree that Riley may be one of the better ILBs on the market, but this year's crop of ILBs is pretty weak) but we are just at a crossroads and need some more data from the market to come to an agreement. I just don't see anything wrong with that strategy. You seem to believe that by doing this, we are dissing Riley. I just don't agree. It can be done professionally (Allen has done this multiple times with the likes of Fletcher, Moss, Hall and others) so that once everyone understands what the market will bear, a deal can be struck.

FInally, when in the last 4 years has Allen not taken care of "our own" over outside FAs? This used to be standard fare under Danny/Vinny, but those days ended 4 years ago. Different regime now.

Because he's being emotional and I'm sorry but not a true fan of the team.

 

[j_y19]

The key to that is "If he becomes great". And if he does, he deserves that $$$$.

But IMHO, I doubt this has anything to do with RG3 or any other future contract for that matter. I think it is more about paying them what the FO considers a fair price\contract based on their performance.

That's exactly what it is. Its all about judicious use of cap space. We may have some room, but you can't be foolish with the money. If you overpay Rak and Riley, where does it stop? When Kerrigan is due for a new deal, do we overpay him, too? It becomes a viscous cycle that eventually puts you in cap hell like the Cowboys. We've been there before and we know that's not a place you want to be. There is nothing wrong with letting guys test out the market to determine value. I just can't fathom why some are so afraid of this tactic. Does it cary some risk? Sure, but so does signing an average, at best, ILB to a contract that is inflated over the market value and then have to eat some of that contract as dead money in 3 years because the guy doesn't pan out. This has nothing to do with falling in love with other team's players over your own and everything to do with adhering to a philosophy of signing all players to value based contracts that don't hamstring you in the future.

 

[Sharkinva]

Because he's being emotional and I'm sorry but not a true fan of the team.

So the only way to be a true fan of the team is to support the concept that no one we drafted (aside from RG3, Williams and Morris) deserves to be taken care of, but its ok to chase after every one elses free agents?? Sorry if ir irks me that year after year when we do have good players, we try to low ball them and watch them walk, only for us to end up over paying guys like Merriweather, Madieu Williams and a whole list of guys who we all assumed just HAD to be better than the solid player we let go because god forbid we OVER Pay one of our own. I would sooner see us pay a bit more to keep our own solid players than keep chasing the great players. I think its BS that every one around here was drooling after often injured Lee from the Cowboys a year before he was even scheduled to be a free agent. And no one would have bitched one bit if we had gotten him for the same contract Dallas gave him, but apparently any contract that even gives Riley a chance to even EARN over $4 million a year ( your numbers GK) would be considered overpaying him. I am a true fan of the team, buit that does not mean I have to support stupid decisions the team makes. And low balling Riley and Rak under some noble concept that they arent game changers so any one could replace them is just dumb in my opinion.

 

[Sharkinva]

That's exactly what it is. Its all about judicious use of cap space. We may have some room, but you can't be foolish with the money. If you overpay Rak and Riley, where does it stop? When Kerrigan is due for a new deal, do we overpay him, too? It becomes a viscous cycle that eventually puts you in cap hell like the Cowboys. We've been there before and we know that's not a place you want to be. There is nothing wrong with letting guys test out the market to determine value. I just can't fathom why some are so afraid of this tactic. Does it cary some risk? Sure, but so does signing an average, at best, ILB to a contract that is inflated over the market value and then have to eat some of that contract as dead money in 3 years because the guy doesn't pan out. This has nothing to do with falling in love with other team's players over your own and everything to do with adhering to a philosophy of signing all players to value based contracts that don't hamstring you in the future.

We have our own cycle at play. We try and under pay or lowball our own guys because we feel that we can replace them easily. then we watch as the guy we brought in sucks, and the guy we could easily replace goes on to play in multiple playoffs games and even super bowls with his next team. ( See Rogers, Carlos or Clark, ryan for examples of this particular cycle).

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

Shark would you weather have og shawtz rt oher or reily and rackpo. I think both of them lineman can be had for less'then reily and' orackpo. Just a thought and another thing. Do we need to spend 17 million of space for reily and rackpo or spend 17 million'on a less say albert and og shawtz .... the picture is clear to me if had 17 mill to spend I go oline (10mill for rack 7 mill for'reily)

 

[Sharkinva]

Shark would you weather have og shawtz rt oher or reily and rackpo. I think both of them lineman can be had for less'then reily and' orackpo. Just a thought and another thing. Do we need to spend 17 million of space for reily and rackpo or spend 17 million'on a less say albert and og shawtz

Honestly.. I would rather have Riley and Rak. Im dead tired of us chasing other peoples free agents and valuing them over our own. Also the reality is that Rak and Riley WONT cost us $17 million in cap space this year, or next year, or even in 2016 most likely because no one structures contracts as straight money. Its just not practical. If anything between the two of them we will likely have $8 million in cap space used up this year, $12 million in 2015 (high side) and $20 million tops in 2016 if both hit playing incentives likely built into the deal. And even if we resigned Rak and Riley, it wont mean we couldnt bring in Oher and Swartz.

 

[j_y19]

Shark, what's your definition of a "bit more"? If Riley is asking for $7M/year, thats not a bit more, that's ton more. If his true market value is in the $5M range (that's being generous), and he is asking $7M, that's a 40% premium. A bit more is a 10% premium, not 40%. With that extra 1.5M, we could sign a very good safety vs just a mediocre one. The gap with Riley appears to be huge. Probably not so much with Rak. My bet is the get a deal with Rak before Monday. Now that the franchise tag for Rak has been set at $11.5M, its in the best interest of both parties to get a long term deal done now. Rak really doesn't want to be franchised tag. That means he is a FA again next year. If you look at the other FA OLBs next year, there are going to be some heavy hitters. He will be no where near the top of that class.