Keeper Rule Discussion

[averagejoe]

I'd like to get your thoughts on keeper rules.

More specifically, I'm involved in a league where you can only keep a player that was drafted in the fifth round or later, or picked up as a free agent. Yet I'm in another league where you can keep any player no matter where he was drafted.

In both cases, there is no penalty for either keeper. The draft still continues as usual. (No skipping of picks, etc.) So its either:

League A - Fifth round or later, or free agent acquisition.
League B - Any player any round.

To be honest, I feel that league A is more of a penalty or limit to the keeper rule. And here's a "for instance." Let's say there are teams that picked up Kaps, Russell Wilson, or Alfred Morris off of the waiver wire (and there were). Why should these teams be rewarded for winning the waiver wire battle (and possibly drafting poorly as well), yet a team with a decent balance of players cannot select one of his best players because of draft position?

What points or counterpoints do you see?

 

[Sox33OSU]

I always thought the whole idea of a keeper league is compromised by limiting who you can keep or even penalizing by taking away a draft pick. Things change from year to year. My keeper league basically made your keeper choice your first round pick. After that, it's fair game. That's what way I like it. It's too Eastern Bloc otherwise.

 

[Sam Sportboy]

I always thought the whole idea of a keeper league is compromised by limiting who you can keep or even penalizing by taking away a draft pick. Things change from year to year. My keeper league basically made your keeper choice your first round pick. After that, it's fair game. That's what way I like it. It's too Eastern Bloc otherwise.

My keeper league you have to keep 1 with the option to keep 2. There is hardly any turnover in this league so that may make a difference. Personally I have been pushing for 2 mandatory (actually I WANT it to be three mandatory) and 1 optional. I think in a league like yours you should always be drafting for multiple years. So do I think the guys that had the foresight to pick those guys up be rewarded: Yes, but it should also cost them their first picks........................so my choice would actually be "C"..................

 

[TDs3nOut]

What points or counterpoints do you see?

Seems pretty obvious that Rule A rewards a good draft pick, while Rule B emphasizes a slick waiver acquisition. I think I favor B, since everyone is on pretty much equal footing on waiver pickups, but draft picks are sensitive to draft order.

 

[TREFF]

I think it should be wide open..with the only limit being the amount of keepers..which would vary league to league. .but that'd be my choice of the 2

 

[SmokingMonkey]

Commish of my keeper league.
I set mine up to encourage owners to NOT keep the same players over and over.
I wanted to do a dynasty, where your whole squad was kept, but I got voted down.

Max keepers = 4, Min = 2, no positional limitations
1st year you keep a player = where they were drafted/picked up (slick waiver wire pickups = 16th round value, so very valuable)
2nd year their value automatically = your highest available draft pick

That way, you only continually keep players that are drafted in the 1st few rounds, and being able to get 1st dibs on the leftovers in the redraft is pretty important, imo. So in theory, the teams that do well one year, will undoubtedly have to cut a couple really good players. The teams that did bad, should probably only keep 2-3 players, and get an early start on rebuilding their teams to compete the next year.

Again, I was trying to emphasize roster turnover, and wanted to create as much parity from season to season as possible. So far (this will be year 3) we had 4/6 teams repeat playoff runs, but the champ in yr 2 finished in last place in yr 1 (AP injury, bad WRs in year 1).

 

[Bandit]

I'd like to get your thoughts on keeper rules.

More specifically, I'm involved in a league where you can only keep a player that was drafted in the fifth round or later, or picked up as a free agent. Yet I'm in another league where you can keep any player no matter where he was drafted.

In both cases, there is no penalty for either keeper. The draft still continues as usual. (No skipping of picks, etc.) So its either:

League A - Fifth round or later, or free agent acquisition.
League B - Any player any round.

To be honest, I feel that league A is more of a penalty or limit to the keeper rule. And here's a "for instance." Let's say there are teams that picked up Kaps, Russell Wilson, or Alfred Morris off of the waiver wire (and there were). Why should these teams be rewarded for winning the waiver wire battle (and possibly drafting poorly as well), yet a team with a decent balance of players cannot select one of his best players because of draft position?

What points or counterpoints do you see?

I run a keeper league and you can only keep one player in the position he was drafted the previous year. If you drafted Adrian Peterson in the 2nd round last year, he is your second round draft pick this year. If you drafted Robert Griffin in the 12th round last year, he counts as your 12th round draft pick this year. Any free agents are 6th round keepers. A traded player is kept in the round he was originally drafted in. You can only keep a player one year also because let's face it, it's not fun if you never get a shot at Adrian Peterson. I am also letting the teams select their draft position this year based on reverse order of standings from last year. Worst record gets to choose their draft spot first and so on.

 

[Sam Sportboy]

You can only keep a player one year also because let's face it, it's not fun if you never get a shot at Adrian Peterson.

Good point but let's not forget when AP came into the league there was an injury concern. So I would say the person who had the stones to take him when she did (in my league yes, AP's owner is a girl) should be able to reap the bennies until his legs fall of. I drafted Arian Foster in the 4th or 5th round in his breakout season and was laughed at by a few of the "smarter" owners. I get what you are saying but if you have the huevos to take a chance on these guys you should be able to keep them. Gotta give AP owner some credit too: Last year she almost tossed him back but decided to stay with him. She also took a chance with MJD his second year and had both AD and MJD up until last year, Lost in the Super Bowl twice.

 

[tlance]

I'd like to get your thoughts on keeper rules.

More specifically, I'm involved in a league where you can only keep a player that was drafted in the fifth round or later, or picked up as a free agent. Yet I'm in another league where you can keep any player no matter where he was drafted.

In both cases, there is no penalty for either keeper. The draft still continues as usual. (No skipping of picks, etc.) So its either:

League A - Fifth round or later, or free agent acquisition.
League B - Any player any round

To be honest, I feel that league is more of a penalty or limit to the keeper rule. And here's a "for instance." Let's say there are teams that picked up Kaps, Russell Wilson, or Alfred Morris off of the waiver wire (and there were). Why should these teams be rewarded for winning the waiver wire battle (and possibly drafting poorly as well), yet a team with a decent balance of players cannot select one of his best players because of draft position?

What points or counterpoints do you see?

I don't think the set-up in league A is very fair, but I also can't stand leagues that allow you to keep any player without restrictions. Leagues that allow that put too much emphasis on the first year draft, and they are somewhat boring. I want to have a theoretical chance of landing a different stud on my team each year.

The best keeper leagues, IMO, penalize keepers by making you take them in an earlier round than you selected them the previous year. If you are allowed to keep free agent pick ups, then they should be kept with a mid-round pick instead of a late round pick. It is obviously much easier to pick up Alfred Morris after he goes off than it is to draft and hold him. Shrewd drafters should be rewarded. Anybody schmoe lucky enough to land pick #1 can draft and keep AP. It takes talent to find the late gems.

 

[Yellow Fuzzies]

I'd like to get your thoughts on keeper rules.

More specifically, I'm involved in a league where you can only keep a player that was drafted in the fifth round or later, or picked up as a free agent. Yet I'm in another league where you can keep any player no matter where he was drafted.

In both cases, there is no penalty for either keeper. The draft still continues as usual. (No skipping of picks, etc.) So its either:

League A - Fifth round or later, or free agent acquisition.
League B - Any player any round.

To be honest, I feel that league A is more of a penalty or limit to the keeper rule. And here's a "for instance." Let's say there are teams that picked up Kaps, Russell Wilson, or Alfred Morris off of the waiver wire (and there were). Why should these teams be rewarded for winning the waiver wire battle (and possibly drafting poorly as well), yet a team with a decent balance of players cannot select one of his best players because of draft position?

What points or counterpoints do you see?

Joe - I agree totally. I am in a keeper league with the same 5th round or later rule with no penalty. Those without a good option for a keeper are at distinct disadvantage over the rest of the field. Maybe there should be some reward for having a quality keeper but the keeper should at least cost a fifth round pick IMO. I have not been able to convince my fishing buddies of this though.

 

[Sam Sportboy]

Joe - I agree totally. I am in a keeper league with the same 5th round or later rule with no penalty. Those without a good option for a keeper are at distinct disadvantage over the rest of the field. Maybe there should be some reward for having a quality keeper but the keeper should at least cost a fifth round pick IMO. I have not been able to convince my fishing buddies of this though.

I agree with the bolded statement but as far as not having a good option that is mostly the owners fault IMO if you're talking about a league with tenured owners. Plus the way we have ours set up (which I disagree with BTW) there is a supplimental draft for those who only want to keep 1 player. So basically, draft who ever you want but just remember next year you will be keeping one of these guys. To some it may seem boring but to me it seems like it takes a little more stratagy as you are drafting for this year but with next year's potential in mind.....................kinda like an NFL team.

 

[averagejoe]

Thanks for your input.

I posted a request on the league's home page (of this keeper league) that they review the keeper rules for modification.

One "owner" (who is not one of the commissioners) already responded (to shoot down my proposals) and maintained that "keepers" should reward good drafting. Yet many of the keepers are free agents. Kaps, Wilson & Wilson, Morris... So if you want to reward "good drafting" (in response to this owner) then you shouldn't allow free agents in the equation.

 

[Sox33OSU]

Thanks for your input.

I posted a request on the league's home page (of this keeper league) that they review the keeper rules for modification.

One "owner" (who is not one of the commissioners) already responded (to shoot down my proposals) and maintained that "keepers" should reward good drafting. Yet many of the keepers are free agents. Kaps, Wilson & Wilson, Morris... So if you want to reward "good drafting" (in response to this owner) then you shouldn't allow free agents in the equation.

That's a load of bullshit. That's not the point of a keeper league. "Good drafting" is a completely subjective statement as well. You can have injuries, bad coaching decisions, and lots of other things that can affect a player's season. What the hell is the point of doing a keeper league when you're just gonna put a bunch of restrictions on it? Takes all the fun away. Are you in a league with Matthew Berry or something?

 

[Sam Sportboy]

That's a load of bullshit. That's not the point of a keeper league. "Good drafting" is a completely subjective statement as well. You can have injuries, bad coaching decisions, and lots of other things that can affect a player's season. What the hell is the point of doing a keeper league when you're just gonna put a bunch of restrictions on it? Takes all the fun away. Are you in a league with Matthew Berry or something?

More like Halley Berry (sorry Joe, couldn't resist).

 

[tlance]

That's a load of bullshit. That's not the point of a keeper league. "Good drafting" is a completely subjective statement as well. You can have injuries, bad coaching decisions, and lots of other things that can affect a player's season. What the hell is the point of doing a keeper league when you're just gonna put a bunch of restrictions on it? Takes all the fun away. Are you in a league with Matthew Berry or something?

Not everyone likes the same things. Restrictions make keeper decisions more challenging. In my keeper league, only 3 of the top 30 players are keeper eligible this year. This makes draft day far more interesting than a league where you just keep your 3 best studs.

IMO, keeper leagues without any restrictions take the fun away. I think it is important that whatever restrictions you have make sense though. It seems that the restrictions in Joe's league A do not make sense. They actual rule does not properly align with the goal to reward shrewd late round pick.

 

[Sox33OSU]

Not everyone likes the same things. Restrictions make keeper decisions more challenging. In my keeper league, only 3 of the top 30 players are keeper eligible this year. This makes draft day far more interesting than a league where you just keep your 3 best studs.

IMO, keeper leagues without any restrictions take the fun away. I think it is important that whatever restrictions you have make sense though. It seems that the restrictions in Joe's league A do not make sense. They actual rule does not properly align with the goal to reward shrewd late round pick.

I feel like that many rules just makes it too convoluted and takes the fun away. I'm also not a fan of that many keepers (3), TBH. You might as well just run a dynasty at that point. I agree on the rule A, that makes no sense at all to me. I guess for me, the fun of the day is making the picks and playing the strategy game each round. When you're keeping that many guys and having all of those rules, it makes it more like a chore or a job rather than a fun day that I'm looking forward to.

 

[dblakejr7]

ne ofthese days i need to try a keeper league

 

[averagejoe]

That's not the point of a keeper league. "Good drafting" is a completely subjective statement as well. You can have injuries, bad coaching decisions, and lots of other things that can affect a player's season.

Sox, this is good rebuttal fodder. Thanks.

I'm not a big fan of keeper leagues myself. But other than the MBBRL, this is my favorite league (even with these unreasonable keeper owners).

Like tlance eluded to, it's hard to please everyone with the rules.

 

[Sox33OSU]

Sox, this is good rebuttal fodder. Thanks.

I'm not a big fan of keeper leagues myself. But other than the MBBRL, this is my favorite league (even with these unreasonable keeper owners).

Like tlance eluded to, it's hard to please everyone with the rules.

No worries man, I hope it turns out for the best. tlance is of course right, it's impossible to please everyone. I guess making a rule that's so rigid when you're talking about 12 members just seems like a poor decision.

 

[Barilko]

Holy crap guys my keeper rules would blow you away ( or scare ya away )
it borders dynasty but not quite because of the keeper values
there isn't enough room here to explain my rules
the basic ones are

no player drafted in the first 3 rounds can be kept
players cost 1 round draft round higher to keep the following year
it then jumps 2 rounds per year after words

ie draft in 10th this year -costs a 9 next year-a 7th the year after a 5th the next and so on

if you have players you want to keep from the same round you must acquire a 2nd pick in the draft round needed or bump one player or the other up a round

we can keep anywhere from 0 to 10 players
its a 10 team ppr league with 18 draft rounds

anyhow if some one is silly enough to want to see my crazy written rules ill send them the word doc which is 18 pages long 12 or so of the pages contain waiver keeper and roster rules

cheers boys 2 weeks from tomorrow