As of Today is A-Rod a Hall of Famer?

[$500 Million]

When he hit that home run off Nathan in the bottom of the ninth of the '09 playoffs, was he a flaming douchebag then? If so, then Yankee Stadium had a curious habit of wildly cheering flaming douchebags four years ago.

So because he hit that HR I should forget everything and love him unconditionally?

Sorry, I'm not a dog.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Like I said earlier if the 1998 pennant is taken away from the Padres it's fine with me. Just as long as they take the 1998 World Series away from the Yankees who had Andy Pettite on their roster.

Because Andy Pettitte was using PEDs in 1998? The Yankees had juicers in 1998, no doubt. But there is very little chance that Pettitte was one of them. That was before Clemens and McNamee arrived.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

The game was played differently then. Players played the game tougher than they do today. I don't think the punishment for PED's is enough. If it was guys like Melky Cabrera & Bartolo Colon wouldn't be able to get contracts like they did after last season. I think the 1st offense should cost a player 1 full season. The second offense should be 2 full seasons. The third they're banned for life. If MLB doesn't hit the players where it hurts they'll keep using. I have a hard time believing Colon is clean right now. Players don't perform at their best in MLB at 40 years of age.[/QUOTE]
Jamie Moyer, Phil Niekro, Hoyt Wilhelm and Nolan Ryan disagree.

Anyhow, it seems to come back to the money again for you. Teams don't care whether these guys use PEDs as long as they perform. They'll continue to get contracts if they can perform. Colon may or may not be on PEDs right now, but just because he's not doesn't mean he's still not benefitting from his past use. Like I've said many, many times: PEDs aren't magic. You still have to work. While a guy like Colon may not be using them right now, as long as he's sticking to his regimen, he can maintain the performance boost that the drugs gave him.

 

[Liberal Icon]

I can't believe somebody is asking this question. He's a cheater, therefore he will never get into the Hall of Fame.

The Baseball Hall of Fame has become a meaningless shrine for ego trips by the media hypocrites and their holier than thou double standards.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

The Baseball Hall of Fame has become a meaningless shrine for ego trips by the media hypocrites and their holier than thou double standards.

Well said. I love the Hall of Fame. It's a genuinely great place to visit and a must for any baseball fan. But it's hard to take the voting process seriously anymore with the way the writers carry themselves.

 

[MattyM]

So because he hit that HR I should forget everything and love him unconditionally?

Sorry, I'm not a dog.

So when an admitted PED user hits a dramatic postseason home run for the team you root for, you cheer him wildly. But four years later, when the same admitted PED user is older and sucks and can no longer help your team and is a financial drain on your franchise, he's a steaming douchebag?

Got it. Nothing hypocritical there...

 

[MattyM]

Well said. I love the Hall of Fame. It's a genuinely great place to visit and a must for any baseball fan. But it's hard to take the voting process seriously anymore with the way the writers carry themselves.

The fact that Jim Rice and Andre Dawson are in the Hall of Fame and Barry Bonds isn't tells me all I need to know about the Hall of Fame.

 

[$500 Million]

So when an admitted PED user hits a dramatic postseason home run for the team you root for, you cheer him wildly. But four years later, when the same admitted PED user is older and sucks and can no longer help your team and is a financial drain on your franchise, he's a steaming douchebag?

Got it. Nothing hypocritical there...

Well done.

 

[Swangin]

I don't care about how much money they make. I only care that they play their sport without PED'S. I feel the same way about all the other sports. Every team in the NFL has guys using PED'S. If you think the Chargers are the only team you better think again. Bill Romanowski has a lot of Super Bowl rings. I'm sure he wasn't the only player on those teams who used something. Those Steelers teams in the 70's had guys who used. We already know their Center did. PED'S were league wide in the 70's. Just like Amphedimines were everywhere in MLB in the 70's. Ball Four is one of the best sports books ever written. If you haven't read it you should.

The point is, when was the last time you were bitching about how NFL players should be banned, or going on some rant about NFL players cheating? Hell, the NFL players union won't even agree to test for HGH, talk about turning a blind eye! MLB was infested with steroids in the late 90's, no one says otherwise. But in the last handful of years the players union has agreed to more advance testing, and testing for HGH. They have taken steps in the right direction, things like this don't change over night. I feel very confident when I say the percentage of users in MLB has dropped a lot since 99. People will continue to try to get away with things in every sport til the end of time. But as of today, I'd be willing to bet anything there are far less players in the MLB using than in the NFL. (I know there are more NFL players, saying percentage wise) However, you get guys that love the NFL watch every sunday, but will come out and say, "I can't even watch baseball anymore with all these players cheating"

Not totally directing all this at you, just becomes tiresome hearing everyone bitch about baseball, then go throw an NFL jersey on.

I could go off on a rant that no one talks about, how the concussions in the NFL are such a huge problem. I would say steroids not only cause a lot of those concussions, but the side effects that everyone is saying is the result of concussions, are also the same side effects of certain steroid usage. BUT not one person even brings that up, WHY?

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

The fact that Jim Rice and Andre Dawson are in the Hall of Fame and Barry Bonds isn't tells me all I need to know about the Hall of Fame.

No, it tells you all you need to know about the voters. The Hall of Fame is still a great place. They just need to change their voting procedures.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

The point is, when was the last time you were bitching about how NFL players should be banned, or going on some rant about NFL players cheating? Hell, the NFL players union won't even agree to test for HGH, talk about turning a blind eye! MLB was infested with steroids in the late 90's, no one says otherwise. But in the last handful of years the players union has agreed to more advance testing, and testing for HGH. They have taken steps in the right direction, things like this don't change over night. I feel very confident when I say the percentage of users in MLB has dropped a lot since 99. People will continue to try to get away with things in every sport til the end of time. But as of today, I'd be willing to bet anything there are far less players in the MLB using than in the NFL. (I know there are more NFL players, saying percentage wise) However, you get guys that love the NFL watch every sunday, but will come out and say, "I can't even watch baseball anymore with all these players cheating"

Not totally directing all this at you, just becomes tiresome hearing everyone bitch about baseball, then go throw an NFL jersey on.

I could go off on a rant that no one talks about, how the concussions in the NFL are such a huge problem. I would say steroids not only cause a lot of those concussions, but the side effects that everyone is saying is the result of concussions, are also the same side effects of certain steroid usage. BUT not one person even brings that up, WHY?

Well said. The double standard is nauseating. I still hang around the new facebook boards on E!SPN (for entertainment value) to see people whining in crying about steroids in baseball, while they're wearing their favorite NFL player's jersey in their profile picture. Odds are, that guy's on steroids. I once saw a guy with an Adrian Peterson jersey pontificating about what a disgrace PED users are to sports. I had to post just to call the guy on his bullshit.

 

[Wazmankg]

Let them all in. There's just no way to know who did and who didn't. That said I think they have to draw a hard line in the sand and soon. Having every other 14 year old with a little talent and stars in his (or her) eyes juicing is probably not a good thing.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Let them all in. There's just no way to know who did and who didn't. That said I think they have to draw a hard line in the sand and soon. Having every other 14 year old with a little talent and stars in his (or her) eyes juicing is probably not a good thing.

Oh no. Not this??? Can we please stop with this??

It's not Major League Baseball's or Alex Rodriguez's job to raise children. If a kid uses drugs because he saw his favorite athlete do it, that's a parenting problem, not a baseball problem.

 

[jdwills126]

If A Rod never juiced would he have the numbers he has today?

Thats the million dollar question and one not easily answered. Maybe the same average but not the same HRs.

You cheat you get a penalty. If it's exclusion from HoF so be it. I doubt A Rod will live broken in poverty because of getting banned or excluded.

 

[Wazmankg]

Oh no. Not this??? Can we please stop with this??

It's not Major League Baseball's or Alex Rodriguez's job to raise children. If a kid uses drugs because he saw his favorite athlete do it, that's a parenting problem, not a baseball problem.

So MLB should approve of negative behaviors that come with a huge financial incentive but questionable-at-best if not downright physically dangerous consequences ?

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

So MLB should approve of negative behaviors that come with a huge financial incentive but questionable-at-best if not downright physically dangerous consequences ?

Who ever said they approve? Last I check, they punish players for using PEDs. You punish something you approve of?

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

If A Rod never juiced would he have the numbers he has today?

Thats the million dollar question and one not easily answered. Maybe the same average but not the same HRs.

You cheat you get a penalty. If it's exclusion from HoF so be it. I doubt A Rod will live broken in poverty because of getting banned or excluded.

I have a hard time believing that A-Rod wouldn't have been a great player without steroids.

Without steroids, I'd speculate he'd have been a more powerful version of Jeter, only better defensively. No way he would have approached HR records, but still an all-time great nonetheless.

Pure speculation, but I think this is pretty reasonable. PEDs aren't magic.

 

[MattyM]

If A Rod never juiced would he have the numbers he has today?

Thats the million dollar question and one not easily answered. Maybe the same average but not the same HRs.

You cheat you get a penalty. If it's exclusion from HoF so be it. I doubt A Rod will live broken in poverty because of getting banned or excluded.

If Ty Cobb had played in a league open to everybody, open to guys who may have taken roster spots away from pitchers he faced, would he have the numbers he has today?

That's the million dollar question and one not easily answered because everybody wants to ignore it and pretend it had no effect whatsoever. Maybe he would've had a different amount of--

Oh shoot, wait a minute, I just realized Ty Cobb was my grandfather's hero, and I used to sit on his lap as he tusseled my hair and told me Ty Cobb stories, and I had the 1973 Topps Ty Cobb All-Time Hits Leader baseball card when I was 7, so I'm not allowed to examine his numbers, only those of the mean, obscenely rich modern guys who don't play for the team I root for. Nevermind. Ignore this post.

 

[Wazmankg]

Who ever said they approve? Last I check, they punish players for using PEDs. You punish something you approve of?

What I'm suggesting is from here on out, lifetime ban. No 2nd chances.

 

[MattyM]

What I'm suggesting is from here on out, lifetime ban. No 2nd chances.

Unless it's some superstar on my team. Then it's: "Hey, what is this, a witch hunt?"

(Not directed at you, Wazman, just Joe SportsFan in general.)