We need to trade Harrison or Birdsong for a legit bat: change my mind?

[msgkings322]

We have a lot of live arms and not enough starting spots. We are desperate for consistent hitting and first base/DH is available to fill. 2B we are missing Fitzgerald so that’s should improve when he gets back. Jerar is coming but he’s no lock to be good.

One of our top young pitchers + another player should net us someone pretty good I would think. Yes they will likely turn into Wheeler for another team. That’s how trades work you give up strength to shore up weakness.

Am I wrong here?

 

[calsnowskier]

We have a lot of live arms and not enough starting spots. We are desperate for consistent hitting and first base/DH is available to fill. 2B we are missing Fitzgerald so that’s should improve when he gets back. Jerar is coming but he’s no lock to be good.

One of our top young pitchers + another player should net us someone pretty good I would think. Yes they will likely turn into Wheeler for another team. That’s how trades work you give up strength to shore up weakness.

Am I wrong here?

I have been saying this for about a year.

 

[msgkings322]

I have been saying this for about a year.

I wonder if Buster will see it

 

[sf1giantfan]

I thought we got our bat when we signed Adames?

 

[msgkings322]

I thought we got our bat when we signed Adames?

We don’t need more hitting?

 

[tzill]

Waaaaay too early to be trading for a bat, IMO.

Let's see where we stand at the ASB

 

[msgkings322]

Waaaaay too early to be trading for a bat, IMO.

Let's see where we stand at the ASB

You expect we might not need one? Seems like an obvious need that we can fill with strength, why wait?

As you said in the other thread, we can’t hit

 

[tzill]

You expect we might not need one? Seems like an obvious need that we can fill with strength, why wait?

As you said in the other thread, we can’t hit

Its not about "need" so much as opportunity. I'd take about three legit bats right now. The problem is that the price in May is too high. A major reason why very few deals are made this early.

 

[msgkings322]

It’s not about "need" so much as opportunity. I'd take about three legit bats right now. The problem is that the price in May is too high. A major reason why very few deals are made this early.

Ok fair enough, too soon for it because too expensive makes sense

 

[Stokes1931]

I am OK with Bales not hitting much. His defense is stellar.

I am worried about LWJ, who isn't hitting or walking at all.

I believe Adames and Chappy will come around. They are not .300 hitters and we don't need them to be. We need them to drive in runs.

But yeah, 5 of the starting 9 are hitting below .220, and 2 are below .200. It is surprising that we are still above .500.

 

[LHG]

What happened to the mantra "a team never has enough pitching?" Besides, I'm not concerned either Hicks or Roupp should be in the starting rotation. If both continue to falter, the Giants may be wishing they had Harrison and/or Birdsong in July.

However, I'll bite, who do you see being a good fit for the Giants? Please don't say Luis Robert Jr

 

[msgkings322]

What happened to the mantra "a team never has enough pitching?" Besides, I'm not concerned either Hicks or Roupp should be in the starting rotation. If both continue to falter, the Giants may be wishing they had Harrison and/or Birdsong in July.

However, I'll bite, who do you see being a good fit for the Giants? Please don't say Luis Robert Jr

I’m well over Robert LOL. Very glad no one listened to me.

I don’t know who’s out there just think it’s obvious we need a bat and one of those two can get us one. We have to use our strength.

I’m aware you are almost always going to be against any Giants prospects going out the door. We each have our preferences

 

[LHG]

I’m well over Robert LOL. Very glad no one listened to me.

I don’t know who’s out there just think it’s obvious we need a bat and one of those two can get us one. We have to use our strength.

I’m aware you are almost always going to be against any Giants prospects going out the door. We each have our preferences

It is a pivot from your push to strengthen the pitching staff and try to win on that. Do you really think a rotation of Webb, Ray, Verlander, Hicks and Roupp is a legitimate playoff rotation? Webb is definitely an ace and Ray has his moments but seems better suited to the 3rd or 4th spot in the rotation. Verlander is showing his age. Hicks needs to be bumped to the bullpen. Roupp needs some time in AAA. I'd rather see Harrison and/or Birdsong get some time in the rotation to see if they could improve it. IMHO.

 

[msgkings322]

It is a pivot from your push to strengthen the pitching staff and try to win on that. Do you really think a rotation of Webb, Ray, Verlander, Hicks and Roupp is a legitimate playoff rotation? Webb is definitely an ace and Ray has his moments but seems better suited to the 3rd or 4th spot in the rotation. Verlander is showing his age. Hicks needs to be bumped to the bullpen. Roupp needs some time in AAA. I'd rather see Harrison and/or Birdsong get some time in the rotation to see if they could improve it. IMHO.

Sure put one of them in the rotation. Trade the other. We have other pitchers too in the minors

It’s bizarre you don’t see the need to get more hitting, have you been watching lately?

 

[LHG]

Sure put one of them in the rotation. Trade the other. We have other pitchers too in the minors

It’s bizarre you don’t see the need to get more hitting, have you been watching lately?

The hitting is not great. I'm not arguing there. But I do think pitching is more important and the rotation is shaky. Don't really agree that we'd be dealing from a strength right now. My thought is if we deal one of these guys, we'll be trading for a starting pitcher in July.

 

[LHG]

Looking at the 6 worst teams in MLB right now, here are their best hitters (not considering any hitters under 50 PAs):
Colorado Rockies
Jordan Beck (24) - .880 OPS (133 OPS+) in 100 PAs
Hunter Goodman (25) - .786 OPS (111 OPS+) in 130 PAs

Chicago White Sox
Edgar Quero (22) - .742 OPS (117 OPS+) in 68 PAs
Matt Thaiss (30) - .742 OPS (117 OPS+) in 82 PAs
Andrew Benintendi (30) - .698 OPS (100 OPS+) in 95 PAs

Pittsburgh Pirates
Oneil Cruz (26) - .850 OPS (136 OPS+) in 155 PAs
Andrew McCutchen (38) - .757 OPS (111 OPS+) in 124 PAs
Joey Bart (28) - .742 OPS (110 OPS+) in 115 PAs

Baltimore Orioles
Ryan O'Hearn (31) - .949 OPS (175 OPS+) in 111 PAs
Cedric Mullins (30) - .784 OPS (129 OPS+) in 145 PAs
Jackson Holliday (21) - .769 OPS (125 OPS+) in 114 PAs
Ramon Urias (31) - .756 OPS (122 OPS+) in 82 PAs
Gunnar Henderson (24) - .755 OPS (119 OPS+) in 128 PAs
Ramon Laureano (30) - .715 OPS (105 OPS+) in 71 PAs

Miami Marlins
Agustin Ramirez (23) - .932 OPS (148 OPS+) in 61 PAs
Dane Myers (29) - .864 OPS (135 OPS+) in 85 PAs
Kyle Stowers (27) - .863 OPS (135 OPS+) in 141 PAs
Liam Hicks (26) - .770 OPS (110 OPS+) in 79 PAs

Anaheim (not Los Angeles) Angels
Zach Neto (24) - .843 OPS (135 OPS+) in 79 PAs
Logan O'Hoppe (25) - .830 OPS (135 OPS+) in 120 PAs
Kyren Paris (23) - .743 OPS (107 OPS+) in 110 PAs
Jorge Soler (33) - .727 OPS (104 OPS+) in 145 PAs
Mike Trout (33) - .727 OPS (102 OPS+) in 121 PAs

Not a whole lot of available options right now. The best possibilities are the Orioles and I'm not convinced that they will give up the season yet.

 

[filosofy29]

Pitching and defense win in this park. I wouldn’t trade either unless it was a bona fide star. Especially not Birdy. But that’s just me.

 

[SF11704]

Pitching and defense win in this park. I wouldn’t trade either unless it was a bona fide star. Especially not Birdy. But that’s just me.

Pitching and defensuve are needed to compete in this park but you have to have offense to win in any park. The question is .... how much offense. To date we have lost 16 games. In 7 of these losses we have only allowed 3 runs or less.
Trading a Harry or a Birdis a real gamble. They are not a proven product just yet. They could be another Spider .... or no better than a Ross Stripling. Another team is not going to give you some real top offensive player for a gamble ... unless they are looking to salary dump ...

I also think a 1 player acquisition isn't the solution. How effective would an Aaron Judge really be if he was in oir current line up with no other changes? Plenty of walks ......

 

[LHG]

If I expand the list of best hitters on all teams that are more than 5 games back of one of their division and last Wild Card spots, that also includes the Washington Nationals. Their best hitters are:
James Wood (22) - .925 OPS (161 OPS+) in 178 PAs
CJ Abrams (24) - .875 OPS (147 OPS+) in 120 PAs
Alex Call (30) - .846 OPS (144 OPS+) in 93 PAs
Amed Rosario (29) - .738 OPS (108 OPS+) in 73 PAs
Nathaniel Lowe (29) - .733 OPS (108 OPS+) in 167 PAs
Keibert Ruiz (26) - .720 OPS (106 OPS+) in 140 PAs

The way I see it, these are the likeliest hitters available on the market right now:
Ryan O'Hearn, dh-1b-rf (31) - .949 OPS (175 OPS+) in 111 PAs (Bal)
Alex Call, rf-lf (30) - .846 OPS (144 OPS+) in 93 PAs (Was)
Dane Myers, cf-rf (29) - .864 OPS (135 OPS+) in 85 PAs (Mia)
Cedric Mullins, cf (30) - .784 OPS (129 OPS+) in 145 PAs (Bal)
Ramon Urias, 3b-dh (31) - .756 OPS (122 OPS+) in 82 PAs (Bal)
Matt Thaiss, c-dh-1b (30) - .742 OPS (117 OPS+) in 82 PAs (CWS)
Amed Rosario, 3b-2b-ss-dh (29) - .738 OPS (108 OPS+) in 73 PAs (Was)
Nathaniel Lowe, 1b-dh (29) - .733 OPS (108 OPS+) in 167 PAs (Was)
Ramon Laureano, lf-rf-cf-dh (30) - .715 OPS (105 OPS+) in 71 PAs (Bal)
Jorge Soler, dh-rf (33) - .727 OPS (104 OPS+) in 145 PAs (Ana)
Andrew Benintendi, lf-dh (30) - .698 OPS (100 OPS+) in 95 PAs (CWS)

Which one of these guys do you see worth trading Birdsong and/or Harrison for?
O'Hearn's OPS+ would slot in as easily the best hitter on the Giants, so I could see some value in acquiring.
Alex Call would too but he has a less established history of MLB success.
Dane Myers would tied with Mike Yastrzemski but would replace one of the top 3 Giants' hitters if acquired (Ramos' OPS+ of 128 is the lowest among the 3 current outfielders).
Cedric Mullins would only be a very slight upgrade over Ramos (if an upgrade at all).
Ramon Urias would be better than our shortstop and 1st baseman (easily worst position for offense right now) but not for 3rd or 2nd base (Fitzgerald's OPS+ was at 124 at the time of his injury. Chapman is at 126).
Matt Thaiss would be an offensive upgrade at catcher but I don't know what his defensive value is.
Amed Rosario, Nathaniel Lowe, Ramon Laureano and Jorge Soler would be just slightly better offensively than Wilmer Flores (103) and David Villar (102)
Andrew Benintendi would be the 8th best hitter on the Giants, topping Willy Adames and Luis Matos' 86 OPS+ I guess he could become our 4th outfielder.

 

[tzill]

It is a pivot from your push to strengthen the pitching staff and try to win on that. Do you really think a rotation of Webb, Ray, Verlander, Hicks and Roupp is a legitimate playoff rotation? Webb is definitely an ace and Ray has his moments but seems better suited to the 3rd or 4th spot in the rotation. Verlander is showing his age. Hicks needs to be bumped to the bullpen. Roupp needs some time in AAA. I'd rather see Harrison and/or Birdsong get some time in the rotation to see if they could improve it. IMHO.

Ray is a legit ace when healthy. JV is a solid #3.

Agree on Hicks. Roupp TBD