Aiyuk tells Jayden 49ers don't want him back.

[dcrising]

At some point, perhaps with some therapeutic intervention, moving away from resigned hopefulness has to become a thing around these parts, especially when pitted against considered reality. Here's what I mean...

Tell me, which one of these groups you'd rather have in real-time with winning games as your stated goal.

Higgins/Aiyuk, McLaurin, and Dotson (Known, Known, and hopeful)

VS.

McLaurin, Dotson, and McCaffrey (Known, Hopeful, hopeful)

I'd want option A in 2025.

 

[ThomasTomasz]

So your answer to the question is...???

Give me the evaluation year and we will see where the players stand after the season is over. No need to give away draft picks and a high cap amount for one player. That’s something Danny and Vinny the Rat would do while playing fantasy football roster construction games

 

[Stymietee]

Give me the evaluation year and we will see where the players stand after the season is over. No need to give away draft picks and a high cap amount for one player. That’s something Danny and Vinny the Rat would do while playing fantasy football roster construction games

I'd want option A in 2025.

Fair enough, but there's a season to be played this year and you're essentially telling your guys that given the opportunity to win more games now by improving the team, you'd both be willing to sacrifice another year of their short careers because you can't properly evaluate what you have now.

Dotson COULD be better than he's been thus far and you drafted another guy in the third round, but he has an interesting lineage which also COULD be beneficial.

Now get out there and run through walls for us even though we're not giving you the best chance to win now.

BTW; take another look at the history of this organization, especially under Snyder, and you'll find that building patiently with mediocre and aged or aging talent has been its hallmark, not upgrading with younger very talented players with years ahead of them.

Ron Rivera​

Rivera was the head coach for the Washington Commanders and Washington Football Team in the 2020-2023 seasons, a total of four years. The team made it to the playoffs one time (2020) and had a 0-1 record under Coach Rivera in playoff games.

Jay Gruden​

Gruden was the head coach for the Washington Redskins in the 2014-2019 seasons, a total of six years. The team made it to the playoffs one time (2015) and had a 0-1 record under Coach Gruden in playoff games.

Mike Shanahan​

Shanahan was the head coach for the Washington Redskins in the 2010-2013 seasons, a total of four years. The team made it to the playoffs one time (2012) and had a 0-1 record under Coach Shanahan in playoff games.

Jim Zorn​

Zorn was the head coach for the Washington Redskins in the 2008-2009 seasons, a total of two years.

Joe Gibbs​

Joe Gibbs returned to Washington for his second stint from 2004 to 2007. During this period, he led the team to two playoff appearances, including a trip to the divisional round in 2005. While his second tenure wasn’t as successful as his first, Gibbs managed to restore a measure of respect to the franchise

Steve Spurrier​

Spurrier was the head coach for the Washington Redskins in the 2002-2003 seasons, a total of two years.

Marty Schottenheimer​

Schottenheimer was the head coach for the Washington Redskins in the 2001 season.

Norv Turner​

Turner was the head coach for the Washington Redskins in the 1994-2000 seasons, a total of seven years. The team made it to the playoffs one time (1999) and had a 1-1 record under Coach Turner in playoff games.

Now if you guys want to get into a draft, sign free agents, or trade for aging talents vs. trading for young skilled talents over the years, we can do that too!

 

[ThomasTomasz]

@Stymietee if you want to use the business analogy, the Commanders under Adam Peters as the personnel executive are in their start-up phase. He went to his venture capitalist partner- in this case, the owner Josh Harris- with what probably amounts to plans for the first year, two years, three years, five years and probably ten years and maybe a little further out.

The first year of a startup business usually loses money, or the goal is the break even. During this period, you look at getting yourself out on the market and establishing a foothold. You try things to see what works, and what doesn’t work. In the NFL world, we invested the #2 overall pick into a potential franchise QB. The franchise has been mismanaged without a solid plan since Mike Shanahan was here. Bruce Allen had his own plan, then got that taken away from him in favor of Scot McCloughan, who then got replaced by Allen again, and then Ron Rivera had an extremely terrible run as executive, not to mention football coach. Dare I say the roster under Rivera ended up worse than the roster he inherited?

At the same time, we have work to do to change over 15 years of a terrible organizational culture off the field, led by Dan Snyder, Vinny Cerrato and Bruce Allen.

Adam Peters goal is to evaluate the players he was left with, and grow the players he drafted. Peters and Quinn brought in veterans to fill gaps in the roster, but also to provide stable leadership and help grow the culture that Quinn wants to implement. Peters has made management changes and hires at the top level, and at the scouting level. Some people still remain in the front office. While you are evaluating the players, you are also evaluating the people in the front office to see how they do their roles.

Yes, the ‘average‘ NFL player has a shelf life. The majority of them want to win, get paid, leave a mark, etc. But that is why you have a management team that comes in and manages all of your resources. Draft picks have a cost, both in trading them, as well as the contract cost of the players you acquire. You have to manage the cap in short-term and long-term phases. They are evaluating the QB of the future, as well as the players inherited from the previous regime.

If you are patient, you can build a long-term, sustainable winner in the NFL. That is what the goal should be, not leveraging all of our resources to win today, this year. I want this team to succeed beyond the 3.3 year average NFL career. I want what our neighbors have up in Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, a successful organization that can win games despite who is in charge at any given moment. We don’t get there by giving away resources together, like trading a first for a player and then signing him to a big extension.

 

[Stymietee]

@Stymietee if you want to use the business analogy, the Commanders under Adam Peters as the personnel executive are in their start-up phase. He went to his venture capitalist partner- in this case, the owner Josh Harris- with what probably amounts to plans for the first year, two years, three years, five years and probably ten years and maybe a little further out.

The first year of a startup business usually loses money, or the goal is the break even. During this period, you look at getting yourself out on the market and establishing a foothold. You try things to see what works, and what doesn’t work. In the NFL world, we invested the #2 overall pick into a potential franchise QB. The franchise has been mismanaged without a solid plan since Mike Shanahan was here. Bruce Allen had his own plan, then got that taken away from him in favor of Scot McCloughan, who then got replaced by Allen again, and then Ron Rivera had an extremely terrible run as executive, not to mention football coach. Dare I say the roster under Rivera ended up worse than the roster he inherited?

At the same time, we have work to do to change over 15 years of a terrible organizational culture off the field, led by Dan Snyder, Vinny Cerrato and Bruce Allen.

Adam Peters goal is to evaluate the players he was left with, and grow the players he drafted. Peters and Quinn brought in veterans to fill gaps in the roster, but also to provide stable leadership and help grow the culture that Quinn wants to implement. Peters has made management changes and hires at the top level, and at the scouting level. Some people still remain in the front office. While you are evaluating the players, you are also evaluating the people in the front office to see how they do their roles.

Yes, the ‘average‘ NFL player has a shelf life. The majority of them want to win, get paid, leave a mark, etc. But that is why you have a management team that comes in and manages all of your resources. Draft picks have a cost, both in trading them, as well as the contract cost of the players you acquire. You have to manage the cap in short-term and long-term phases. They are evaluating the QB of the future, as well as the players inherited from the previous regime.

If you are patient, you can build a long-term, sustainable winner in the NFL. That is what the goal should be, not leveraging all of our resources to win today, this year. I want this team to succeed beyond the 3.3 year average NFL career. I want what our neighbors have up in Baltimore, Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, a successful organization that can win games despite who is in charge at any given moment. We don’t get there by giving away resources together, like trading a first for a player and then signing him to a big extension.

OK, point by point and I'll try to be brief.
While I understand business quite well, this way of looking at it is NOT applicable for many reasons.

1. It is NOT a startup, the team/organization has been around since 1932.

2. Peters (GM) was hired to evaluate the product and make all necessary changes to make that product far more productive and marketable than it has been in many years. In this case, the directive from the owner (Harris) to Peters the (GM) was probably brief and to the point, "Make this team a winner/champion, you have full authority/control. (No meddling ownership) but because it's new to me, keep me in the loop because I want to learn everything.

3. Again this is not a startup, they aren't losing money and haven't in their first year of ownership. There are zero "break-even" goals and in as much as getting a foothold in marketing, it is one of the older franchises historically, and while not a foundational member (1920) they have a long and storied history in the league (1932)
(SN: Back in May 1999, Snyder agreed to acquire the Washington football team for a price tag of $800 million. Adjusting for inflation, that would be $1.45 billion in today's money. At the time, it was the most expensive sale of a sports team in history. Josh Harris just paid 6.05B in USD)

4. You wrote... "Adam Peters' goal is to evaluate the players he was left with, and grow the players he drafted." on this point, we agree but only to the degree, if I'm understanding you and a few others here, that such evaluations can ONLY be done on the field. ("Let's see what we have" folks) If that's the case, then Washington has done a terrible job in hiring him and he must go immediately.

5. I've already outlined what practicing patience has done for this franchise historically which is nothing of note. So rather than a rehash of that, let's look at the rebuild itself and what such a move would do for that effort. In September 2025 Terry McLaurin will be 30 years old and a big-time tradeable candidate. Why?, because at that point one year removed he's going to want a big dollar extension that goes into ages 34 or 35 AND the smart move now not only gives them a boost, it writes that insurance check for future drafting of his replacement. Washington (has) the cap space to make this move without adjusting anyone else's contract. (My preference is Higgins) The Commanders have Terry McLaurin atop their depth chart; he's guaranteed $18.25 million this season but nothing in 2025 or beyond, so their long-term budget has room for a No. 1 wide receiver. "The jury remains out on 2022 first-round pick Jahan Dotson, who hasn't reached 50 catches in either of his first two NFL seasons. Plus, the team is under new management and could jump-start a retooling of the wide receiver group with a move such as this one."

There's no doubt that adding Aiyuk would give the Commanders a big surge of energy in the receiver room, talent on the field, and credibility as a potential contender in the NFC East Division. As No. 2 receivers go, McLaurin would immediately become arguably the best one in the entire league. While Washington didn't make a big jump at securing a left tackle this offseason, a move that would have certainly helped Daniels in his NFL adjustments, they could make this one knowing it too would help the young quarterback on and off the field. That's beyond the patience being preached here because it takes into account something else... good business sense with a look toward the near future when you'll be forced to deal with what to do with Terry McLaurin.


Btw; Aiyuk is 26 and will cost more to acquire. He turns 30 in March 2028.
Higgins is 25 costing far less to get. He turns 30 in January 2029

 

[skinsdad62]

i feel like we can win with what we have with better coaching . we supposedly hired a better coaching staff and FO . if we trade for a BA or higgins what is the cost 25-30 mil plus to sign them and at a minimum 2 draft pick (probably high ones )

and if they workout then what ? we look to a draft with only 4 picks to fill needs ? we gamble that our free agents all hit next year ? . why cant we simply wait , assess then address ? why am i dead set to mortgage the future to go 10-11 wins maybe and make the playoffs as a WC and maybe get a win ?

the texans didnt mortgage their future . they drafted great talent yr one , assessed what they had and needed , and kept the resources they needed to upgrade this year which the did with Diggs and Mixon . i dont think the texans fan base is bemoaning the alleged wasted year . their stafff coached up their players they had on hand and made a run year one .

we can do the same

 

[Stymietee]

i feel like we can win with what we have with better coaching . we supposedly hired a better coaching staff and FO . if we trade for a BA or higgins what is the cost 25-30 mil plus to sign them and at a minimum 2 draft pick (probably high ones )

and if they workout then what ? we look to a draft with only 4 picks to fill needs ? we gamble that our free agents all hit next year ? . why cant we simply wait , assess then address ? why am i dead set to mortgage the future to go 10-11 wins maybe and make the playoffs as a WC and maybe get a win ?

the texans didnt mortgage their future . they drafted great talent yr one , assessed what they had and needed , and kept the resources they needed to upgrade this year which the did with Diggs and Mixon . i dont think the texans fan base is bemoaning the alleged wasted year . their stafff coached up their players they had on hand and made a run year one .

we can do the same.

I agree, this team can do the same thing, except the unanswered question then becomes...why? Logically, if I agree with you, they can also do even better if they add upgraded talent at WR, correct?
McLaurin will turn 29 years old in less than 2 months, he's going to be 30 before the start of the 2025 season and looking to get that final big contract. It makes more sense to get a guy this year, because simply put, this year's prices aren't next year's prices, replacing him and selecting another WR in the draft is far more risky than getting the known, pricier guy now. (I still prefer Higgins for a 2025 second and 2026 fourth)

On another note, the Texans did exactly what you have previously claimed to be another way of mortgaging their future. After getting their franchise quarterback in C.J. Stroud they traded up nine spots to select Alabama pass-rusher Will Anderson Jr. with the No. 3 overall pick.

The Arizona Cardinals who originally owned the third pick, received the 12th overall pick, the 33rd overall pick, a first-round pick in 2024, and a third-rounder in 2024 from the Texans, who also receive a 2023 fourth-rounder in the deal.

SN: Will Anderson was named to the PFWA NFL All-Rookie Team. He was named Defensive Rookie of the Year.

Anderson was named to the 2023 Pro Bowl following an injury to starter Maxx Crosby.

They were aggressively smart something that would be a real perceptible change from the way business has been done here for far too long.

 

[skinsdad62]

I agree, this team can do the same thing, except the unanswered question then becomes...why? Logically, if I agree with you, they can also do even better if they add upgraded talent at WR, correct?
McLaurin will turn 29 years old in less than 2 months, he's going to be 30 before the start of the 2025 season and looking to get that final big contract. It makes more sense to get a guy this year, because simply put, this year's prices aren't next year's prices, replacing him and selecting another WR in the draft is far more risky than getting the known, pricier guy now. (I still prefer Higgins for a 2025 second and 2026 fourth)

On another note, the Texans did exactly what you have previously claimed to be another way of mortgaging their future. After getting their franchise quarterback in C.J. Stroud they traded up nine spots to select Alabama pass-rusher Will Anderson Jr. with the No. 3 overall pick.

The Arizona Cardinals who originally owned the third pick, received the 12th overall pick, the 33rd overall pick, a first-round pick in 2024, and a third-rounder in 2024 from the Texans, who also receive a 2023 fourth-rounder in the deal.

SN: Will Anderson was named to the PFWA NFL All-Rookie Team. He was named Defensive Rookie of the Year.

Anderson was named to the 2023 Pro Bowl following an injury to starter Maxx Crosby.

They were aggressively smart something that would be a real perceptible change from the way business has been done here for far too long.

Or we can be aggressive and dumb I.e the RG trade fiasco

 

[Stymietee]

Or we can be aggressive and dumb I.e the RG trade fiasco

We either believe in the new management team or we don't. They get the benefit of the doubt until they do crazy, unproductive things. There are a lot of dumb things that this organization can do, but thinking about and planning for the eventual replacement and departure of Terry McLaurin isn't one of them. Right now, to use your description, Terry McLaurin is a one-year albeit tradeable, rental.

 

[ThomasTomasz]

OK, point by point and I'll try to be brief.
While I understand business quite well, this way of looking at it is NOT applicable for many reasons.

1. It is NOT a startup, the team/organization has been around since 1932.

2. Peters (GM) was hired to evaluate the product and make all necessary changes to make that product far more productive and marketable than it has been in many years. In this case, the directive from the owner (Harris) to Peters the (GM) was probably brief and to the point, "Make this team a winner/champion, you have full authority/control. (No meddling ownership) but because it's new to me, keep me in the loop because I want to learn everything.

3. Again this is not a startup, they aren't losing money and haven't in their first year of ownership. There are zero "break-even" goals and in as much as getting a foothold in marketing, it is one of the older franchises historically, and while not a foundational member (1920) they have a long and storied history in the league (1932)
(SN: Back in May 1999, Snyder agreed to acquire the Washington football team for a price tag of $800 million. Adjusting for inflation, that would be $1.45 billion in today's money. At the time, it was the most expensive sale of a sports team in history. Josh Harris just paid 6.05B in USD)

4. You wrote... "Adam Peters' goal is to evaluate the players he was left with, and grow the players he drafted." on this point, we agree but only to the degree, if I'm understanding you and a few others here, that such evaluations can ONLY be done on the field. ("Let's see what we have" folks) If that's the case, then Washington has done a terrible job in hiring him and he must go immediately.

5. I've already outlined what practicing patience has done for this franchise historically which is nothing of note. So rather than a rehash of that, let's look at the rebuild itself and what such a move would do for that effort. In September 2025 Terry McLaurin will be 30 years old and a big-time tradeable candidate. Why?, because at that point one year removed he's going to want a big dollar extension that goes into ages 34 or 35 AND the smart move now not only gives them a boost, it writes that insurance check for future drafting of his replacement. Washington (has) the cap space to make this move without adjusting anyone else's contract. (My preference is Higgins) The Commanders have Terry McLaurin atop their depth chart; he's guaranteed $18.25 million this season but nothing in 2025 or beyond, so their long-term budget has room for a No. 1 wide receiver. "The jury remains out on 2022 first-round pick Jahan Dotson, who hasn't reached 50 catches in either of his first two NFL seasons. Plus, the team is under new management and could jump-start a retooling of the wide receiver group with a move such as this one."

There's no doubt that adding Aiyuk would give the Commanders a big surge of energy in the receiver room, talent on the field, and credibility as a potential contender in the NFC East Division. As No. 2 receivers go, McLaurin would immediately become arguably the best one in the entire league. While Washington didn't make a big jump at securing a left tackle this offseason, a move that would have certainly helped Daniels in his NFL adjustments, they could make this one knowing it too would help the young quarterback on and off the field. That's beyond the patience being preached here because it takes into account something else... good business sense with a look toward the near future when you'll be forced to deal with what to do with Terry McLaurin.


Btw; Aiyuk is 26 and will cost more to acquire. He turns 30 in March 2028.
Higgins is 25 costing far less to get. He turns 30 in January 2029

I’m looking at a start up from the point of the front office only, not the business side of things. You’ve got a new guy in here in Adam Peters, with new ideas on how to run things.

Ultimately we’re at an impasse here because you think this team is a WR#1.5 away from competing for the NFC East. While this has been a stimulating discussion and I appreciate the banter back and forth, I don’t think we’re getting much further with this.

All I am going to say/leave you with is that the past 25 years have absolutely sucked. What’s sucked even more is watching the Ravens compete year in/year out for their division and going deep into the playoffs, and they have multiple Super Bowl appearances and two victories. They would give up a high first or 2nd round draft pick, which could be your next OT/DE of the future, to trade for a player, to turn around and then give out a huge contract to said player. They actually ended up trading Orlando Brown Jr when the same thing happened to them.

I don’t think we are a WR#1.5 away. I’m fine being patient and building this the right, sustainable way, so that we have nearly three decades of dominance atop the league rather than chasing a quick division title. While we have at times taken the patient route under Snyder, we have never had a personnel executive like Adam Peters to implement a process that would keep the owner out of the equation.

 

[Stymietee]

I’m looking at a start up from the point of the front office only, not the business side of things. You’ve got a new guy in here in Adam Peters, with new ideas on how to run things.

Ultimately we’re at an impasse here because you think this team is a WR#1.5 away from competing for the NFC East. While this has been a stimulating discussion and I appreciate the banter back and forth, I don’t think we’re getting much further with this.

All I am going to say/leave you with is that the past 25 years have absolutely sucked. What’s sucked even more is watching the Ravens compete year in/year out for their division and going deep into the playoffs, and they have multiple Super Bowl appearances and two victories. They would give up a high first or 2nd round draft pick, which could be your next OT/DE of the future, to trade for a player, to turn around and then give out a huge contract to said player. They actually ended up trading Orlando Brown Jr when the same thing happened to them.

I don’t think we are a WR#1.5 away. I’m fine being patient and building this the right, sustainable way, so that we have nearly three decades of dominance atop the league rather than chasing a quick division title. While we have at times taken the patient route under Snyder, we have never had a personnel executive like Adam Peters to implement a process that would keep the owner out of the equation.

Good conversation, I appreciate it!

 

[skinsdad62]

We either believe in the new management team or we don't. They get the benefit of the doubt until they do crazy, unproductive things. There are a lot of dumb things that this organization can do, but thinking about and planning for the eventual replacement and departure of Terry McLaurin isn't one of them. Right now, to use your description, Terry McLaurin is a one-year albeit tradeable, rental.

i think they will be smart and patient as they should be

 

[ThomasTomasz]

i think they will be smart and patient as they should be

I’m not giving up a huge asset for Aiyuk. I think if we stood a chance to get a comp pick in the third round this year, I’d consider parting with a third for Aiyuk. But there may be a team that is competing that would throw in a low second perhaps? I don’t know.

What I do know is that I’m not giving up the chance to get a serious first round talent with the first and second rounder.

 

[Buffalo_Nickel_1]

Just wait for FA

 

[kbso83432]

49ers are waiting on a 1st. Jmo

 

[redskinsfan1963]

We aren’t winning anything this year. Evaluate those players with potential, and having them for a couple seasons on rookie contracts still, is the smart play. You don’t throw draft picks and a huge cash offer to Aiyuk right now. If the hopeful guys don’t pan out, then you can throw the contract at a free agent when winning games are the stated goal. There is no need to do that this year, and spend both the cap and high draft picks, to bring in a receiver.

makes more sense than signing another wideout.

 

[deanpet21]

49ers are waiting on a 1st. Jmo

View attachment 368106

So, the LTD is not an issue like skinsdad says. The issue is the draft compensation. The 49ers turning down a 2nd from the Pats is surprising. Should be a high 2nd round pick.

 

[ThomasTomasz]

49ers are waiting on a 1st. Jmo

View attachment 368106

I agree. Otherwise, they go into the season with a great WR who is going to play a huge role in a deep playoff run. Then, they get a 3rd round compensation pick when he gets signed in free agency. I don’t think they can franchise Aiyuk, so that’s their play. Meet our price, or we get a third for him in free agency.

The 49ers completely control this process.

 

[gkekoa]

better to have it and not need it.

Why not carry 8 DTs then?

How many DTs do you want to carry?

 

[kbso83432]

So, the LTD is not an issue like skinsdad says. The issue is the draft compensation. The 49ers turning down a 2nd from the Pats is surprising. Should be a high 2nd round pick.

I didn't want to come across as an ass and call anyone out, but I never got the Dyami and a 5 for Aiyuk talk. Frankly I found it comical.