NBA OFF TOPIC THREAD

[tlance]

why would the cavs prefer a high quality role player to Sexton? Can pretty much assume their only avenue will soon be trade or MLE (as I said in my comment) regardless of what they do with Sexton.

I never said they should prefer a high quality role player.

But they might if that role player made less money and fit better with Garland.

 

[dtgold88]

Sure. You can say that.

But I also took a lot of crap from you and others when I said that.

Because my stance is based on more than just a wild guess.

Maybe a couple Buckeye honks. I happen to be a fan, but not a honk. I can be objective when it comes to OSU players in the NFL. I mean, I'd never say I know a guy will fail but you can sure have a good idea.

FYI, my stance is also based on more than a wild guess. QBs taken in the teens or later rarely succeed in the NFL....even less likely if not the first QB taken and taken after another questionable player.

 

[dtgold88]

I wouldn't call him a franchise QB. He's a mediocre (average to below average) starting QB in the NFL IMO and you can win with him in the right circumstances, but investing a big contract in him seems wasteful. That word franchise is just too strong IMO. Would you use the franchise tag to keep him? Would you not pursue trades or draft picks to upgrade at the position?

Using tag doesn't have to be decided until after NEXT season. IF he plays like he did last year as injury issues were real, sure, I'd either franchise him or extend to large deal.

Either way, I'd pursue trades to replace him in the offseason. Doubt I'd use an early pick to replace him as throwing darts where we would be picking. I'd also consider hoping to bring in a vet who could be the next Tannehill to compete with Baker.

 

[shopson67]

and he has a massive deal. Okoro still on rookie deal for a bit and Sexton will likely get about half what simmons makes (guess doesn't matter too much as will be over cap either way). Might come down to last few weeks of Okoro if the cavs. It they believe it's who he is no way they'd do it.

I think the Cavs are finally in a position where they only need to trade if they aren't going to keep someone. Trying to jump their schedule by trading multiple pieces for someone else's problem sounds like a bad idea that only desperate franchises should make. Hurts that the Lakers did so this offseason.

 

[dtgold88]

I never said they should prefer a high quality role player.

But they might if that role player made less money and fit better with Garland.

Yes...they might. They also might feel like sexton the better option. Gonna likely have no more than MLE whether they keep Sexton or not.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Short term it doesn’t.

But every time you pay somebody, it removes opportunities to go get a high quality role player who can help.

All of these guys (Garland, Secton, Mobley) are likely to command max deals (or real close) when their time comes.

Won’t be too long before their only avenue to add talent will be traded and MLEs.

its nice to see that after not too long ago saying the Cavs should deal guys for assets and were on a road to mediocrity that the problem is now TOO MANY guys getting big contracts.

The Cavs have done a great job drafting despite getting unlucky in the lotto the last few years.

 

[dtgold88]

Yeah that's how sure the cowboys are going down unless they get the 2 seed.

so picking with your heart and not head?

 

[dtgold88]

yeah, I highly doubt Cheesecake Baker'll ever be the cat that'll get you to a shot at multiple titles. he just ain't that guy...

ever? I mean, average or slightly above avg. D had a shot last year.

 

[shopson67]

Washington will be in the qb market

Didn't help that they were missing a lot of their defense either.

 

[trojanfan12]

I wouldn't call him a franchise QB. He's a mediocre (average to below average) starting QB in the NFL IMO and you can win with him in the right circumstances, but investing a big contract in him seems wasteful. That word franchise is just too strong IMO. Would you use the franchise tag to keep him? Would you not pursue trades or draft picks to upgrade at the position?

Imo, there are basically 3 levels of QB in the NFL with 2 levels of franchise QB.

There's the elite...those are guys like I mentioned in my post. Those are guys that can win you a Super Bowl as long is there is some level of competence on the team. These are the guys who make the guys around them better and make household names of unknowns and who can resurrect the careers of old veterans.

The 2nd level are guys that you can win a Super Bowl with, but they need more help (good defense, solid run game, solid o-line, etc.). The amount of help these guys need can vary from player to player.

The 3rd level is placeholders and unknown quantities. A placeholder being the guy they have until they get the guy they want and unknowns quantities being guys (usually young) who no one is sure about because they were in a bad situation or injured early in their careers.

I have Baker in that 2nd group.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I think the Cavs are finally in a position where they only need to trade if they aren't going to keep someone. Trying to jump their schedule by trading multiple pieces for someone else's problem sounds like a bad idea that only desperate franchises should make. Hurts that the Lakers did so this offseason.

I agree.

Sexton is the one guy I would consider- because with Garland- I think Sexton's role with the Cavs will not justify the contract he will get--- though that may now change considering his injury, and a very tight free agent market with only 4-5 teams with cap space.

IF the Cavs can keep Sexton for like 16-18M a year- I might keep him. And that is not unreasonable now considering the injury and the tight free agent market.

Allen and Markkenen are on reasonable contracts. Allen at 20M a year is not bad. Markkenen at less than 17 a year is reasonable. Mobley wont be up for a deal anytime soon- but will get a 25% max when he does. Okoro isnt really very close to a contract.

Garland is really the only guy that is up for a contract relatively soon and I gotta think he will the max or close to it. 25% max isnt devastating though.

 

[dtgold88]

It is interesting to me that the fit between the 2 guards has always been questioned.

Now the team is playing very well without Sexton.

I would be rooting for a trade over an extension if I were a Cavs fan.

The fit was questioned because they had no one else around them. Were 7-4 with sexton against an incredibly tough schedule (and 8 on road) and starting to play the type of D they are now playing.

I'm have faith in the FO to make the right move and just want the Cavs have the best roster they can have be it extension or trade.

I mean, Memphis went 10-1 without Ja. Cannot say I'm sure they are better off without him.....and difference is he's the cornerstone of that team while sexton just a part of the Cavs.

 

[dtgold88]

It doesn't help that Chubb begs out after 3 consecutive plays every time. But they telegraph their intentions by bringing in Johnson on passing downs; Chubb is capable.

Chubb begs out? I mean, Hunt is much better in that role when he plays. Guess you want to ignore Johnson took a run and got the first down on 3rd and 10?

 

[shopson67]

I personally love it. The Cowboy Cockroaches are starting to develop that belief again. They actually think this year will be different. I’m seeing their fans talking about Micah Parsons as the league MVP. A defensive player hasn’t won that award since LT in 1986, haha. But that’s who Cowboy fans are. So we haters of “America’s Team” have to love this moment. So when it goes to shit like it always does (Dez Caught it, Romo can’t hold on an extra point, etc…) it’s gonna hurt them more because they actually believed that this year would be different. Let’s fucking go! I’m here for all of it.

View attachment 285510

America's Team is more like 'Murica's Team, lol.

EDIT: several beat me to the punch, lol.

 

[dtgold88]

I agree.

Sexton is the one guy I would consider- because with Garland- I think Sexton's role with the Cavs will not justify the contract he will get--- though that may now change considering his injury, and a very tight free agent market with only 4-5 teams with cap space.

IF the Cavs can keep Sexton for like 16-18M a year- I might keep him. And that is not unreasonable now considering the injury and the tight free agent market.

Allen and Markkenen are on reasonable contracts. Allen at 20M a year is not bad. Markkenen at less than 17 a year is reasonable. Mobley wont be up for a deal anytime soon- but will get a 25% max when he does. Okoro isnt really very close to a contract.

Garland is really the only guy that is up for a contract relatively soon and I gotta think he will the max or close to it. 25% max isnt devastating though.

agree...other than what you'd pay Sexton. I mean, will be over the cap regardless so not sure paying him $20-25 mil or $16 mil would make much of a difference. at least to anyone but Gilbert who pays it. Will eventually be going way over the cap regardless when Garland and other sign.

 

[Wamu]

Because of what you said earlier (QBs who are loved go high in draft) it's pretty easy to just say any QB drafted where Haskins was wont succeed (sure...some exceptions).

I said when Haskins declared for the draft it was a bad decision on his part. He wasn't ready for the NFL with only 22 college games played. Don't know what the WFT was thinking drafting him so high.

His failure in the NFL is more about the team that drafted him rather than the fact he wasn't a first round talent to begin with.

 

[bksballer89]

so picking with your heart and not head?

When is the last time they beat a team worth a damn?

 

[WiggyRuss]

It doesn't help that Chubb begs out after 3 consecutive plays every time. But they telegraph their intentions by bringing in Johnson on passing downs; Chubb is capable.

Chubb DEFINITELY doesnt beg out.....thats all on the coaching staff. Chubb would play every single play if he could.

but you have Kareem Hunt- who is very very good backing him up. DeErnest Johnson is also a very good backup. And they all have different skill sets.

 

[shopson67]

Chubb begs out? I mean, Hunt is much better in that role when he plays. Guess you want to ignore Johnson took a run and got the first down on 3rd and 10?

I was stuck watching that game this weekend and was wondering aloud why they weren't running the ball more. However, it seemed every time that Chubb touched the ball 3 times consecutively, he was calling to the sideline for a replacement.

Sure, Johnson contributed, that wasn't my point or a jab at Johnson. Subbing with Johnson for every passing down telegraphs those passes.

 

[shopson67]

Imo, there are basically 3 levels of QB in the NFL with 2 levels of franchise QB.

There's the elite...those are guys like I mentioned in my post. Those are guys that can win you a Super Bowl as long is there is some level of competence on the team. These are the guys who make the guys around them better and make household names of unknowns and who can resurrect the careers of old veterans.

The 2nd level are guys that you can win a Super Bowl with, but they need more help (good defense, solid run game, solid o-line, etc.). The amount of help these guys need can vary from player to player.

The 3rd level is placeholders and unknown quantities. A placeholder being the guy they have until they get the guy they want and unknowns quantities being guys (usually young) who no one is sure about because they were in a bad situation or injured early in their careers.

I have Baker in that 2nd group.

I think he's towards the bottom of that second group though. They have the run game with depth, the o-line, and a pretty good defense and are a .500 team. Sure they have injuries, and but so do most teams (as well as protocol issues). He's making too many bad decisions with the ball (or just being far too inaccurate). If it's due to injury, they need to end the "hero ball" crap and play the next man up. They could've won yesterday without those costly INTs (as the announcers kept going back to ad nauseum as if we weren't paying attention lol).