Difference in QB eras

[RaZon]

So I went a few places asking....

Could a 180 pound QB play in todays NFL?

Replies....

You probably already know this, but the lightest qbs are 210-220, so we're talking 30-40 lbs lighter. Can't see it.

Tyler Murray is the lightest NFL QB at 207 so you are looking at someone like 30 pounds lighter. Imagine an all-out blitz where you have a Ronnie Lott with full speed and on the blind side into the 180-pound QB. WAS Lott the guy who had a broken finger and just cut off his finger at home?


I don't see a pocket passer style QB that size surviving long. If he (pardon my gender assumption here) has some wheels he may last a little longer.......like the 2nd quarter of his first game. With defensive linemen/defensive ends as big as they are it spells nothing but doom for any sub 200lb'er.

How much did Vick weigh?

I would say he would have to be a freak athlete like Vick but the first time he takes a clean hit it might be over

edit. Just looked. Even Vick was 215

no way a 180 lb guy can play in this NfL


I won;t be replying until later tonight, yep,,,,,bump! So far nobody is agreeing a 180 QB would work.

 

[batchaps4me]

The huge difference is back in the 30's and 40;s we didn't have the black NFLer. That is the major reason things are different know, size with speed athletes, something we didn't have way back when. Yes everyone playing today would totally rule the past.

Derrick Henry is 245 pounds and fast, that didn't exist way back when,

I would argue that Derrick Henry would have been neither that big nor fast back in the day. Given the same nutrition, exercises and training plus the old school rules of the game that existed in the Four Horsemen's era, Henry would be slower(less flexible), smaller and not as good as he is in today's game. Sure, bring the old timers into today's programs and they would not be great but that is not a one way street.

 

[RaZon]

I would argue that Derrick Henry would have been neither that big nor fast back in the day. Given the same nutrition, exercises and training plus the old school rules of the game that existed in the Four Horsemen's era, Henry would be slower(less flexible), smaller and not as good as he is in today's game. Sure, bring the old timers into today's programs and they would not be great but that is not a one way street.

You are talking about something different. This isn't about if born today or back in the day, it is about a time machine, bring those old timers as they were back then into today and drop them off. Could the 1930;s Sammy Baugh play today, could the 1940;s Otto Graham play today.

The kids at my old HS would have totally detroyed us when I was there in the 60's, they arefar bigger stronger and faster, and we would have detroyed those who came before us. 2020 Alabama team destroys Lombardi Packer teams and on and on....

 

[batchaps4me]

You are talking about something different. This isn't about if born today or back in the day, it is about a time machine, bring those old timers as they were back then into today and drop them off. Could the 1930;s Sammy Baugh play today, could the 1940;s Otto Graham play today.

The kids at my old HS would have totally detroyed us when I was there in the 60's, they arefar bigger stronger and faster, and we would have detroyed those who came before us. 2020 Alabama team destroys Lombardi Packer teams and on and on....

I don't disagree with you as far as bringing old timers into today and that means today's athletes will benefit from the tech/knowledge used today. But use the time machine and take today's athlete back to the 30s with Sammy Baugh's level of training and nutrition and you will get totally different results. It is not just the athletes to compare, it is the era which includes all of the training and support available at the time. It is not a miracle the athletes are bigger, stronger and faster than 80 years ago. Give Henry the exact training and nutrition as Baugh and see if he is still dominating the league.

 

[RaZon]

I don't disagree with you as far as bringing old timers into today and that means today's athletes will benefit from the tech/knowledge used today. But use the time machine and take today's athlete back to the 30s with Sammy Baugh's level of training and nutrition and you will get totally different results. It is not just the athletes to compare, it is the era which includes all of the training and support available at the time. It is not a miracle the athletes are bigger, stronger and faster than 80 years ago. Give Henry the exact training and nutrition as Baugh and see if he is still dominating the league.

Dude, is bragging on Sammy Baugh and Otto Graham, talking about how they could have played today. This is about as they were in their era, this isn't if they had all the advantages these guys have today that is something totally different.

Bob Hayes was an Olympic 100m champion in 1964 his WR 10.06 on a dirt track is still the fastest 100m ever ran by an NFL player***, He could play today at his 195 pounds. But nobody else but maybe Don Hutson before that could as far as WR goes.

YES....all athletes would be bigger stronger faster today and vice versa, and everyone knows that. Well, almost everyone.

*** superior to Holliday/Demps/Ford 10.00/10.01, dirt track.

 

[RaZon]

Speaking of opinions.....

Some top 10's, in my opinion

QB

1.Brady
2.Montana
3.Rodgers
4.Peyton
5.Brees
6.Marino
7.Unitas
8.Favre
9.Otto
10.Elway

RB

1.Brown
2.Barry
3.Sweetness
4.The Kansas Comet
5.Dickerson
6.Emmitt
7.O.J.
8.L,T.
9.Faulk
10.Motley

WR

1.Rice
2.Moss
3.Fitzgerald
4.Terrell
5.Harrison
6.AB
7.Alworth
8.Hutson
9.Tim Brown
10.Carter

TE

1.Tony
2.Kelce
3.Witten
4.Gates
5.Mackey
6.GRONK
7.Sharpe
8.Winslow
9. Newsome
10.Casper

Rasslin'

1.Lou Thesz
2.Bruno Sammartino
3.Hulk Hogan
4.Ric Flair
5. "Nature Boy" Buddy Rogers
6.Verne Gagne
7.Killer Kowalski
8.Harley Race
9.Fred Blassie
10."Stonecold" Steve Austin

NFLers Defense

1.Lawrence Taylor
2.Reggie White
3.Dick Butkus
4.Ronnie Lott
5.Aaron Donald
6.Bruce Smith
7.Emlen Tunnell
8.Night Train Lane
9.Rod Woodson
10.Deacon Jones

Not going to debate placings, but if somebody belongs or doesn't belong,, who?

 

[RaZon]

Doing that for each team, hmmmm? What teams could fill a top 10 with Hall of Famers? A top 20?

 

[Breed]

Do you honestly think we don't see far superior athletes at all positions today than back in the day?

There is only one player from the 1960's who could play today like he did in his day, that would be Bullet Bob Hayes. He was a 10.06 100m man in 1964 and there is nobody today not even Tyreek Hill that fast.

Nice call on Hayes. I've always thought these 3 players would fare decently in today's game in part cuz they had the physical frame for it.

Jim Parker, OG/OT. He was 6'3" n 273 pounds. He could easily put on another 20, 25, 30 pounds with today's weight training/diet.

Doug Atkins, DE. He was 6'8" 260 pounds I've read he was crazy strong and a pretty good athlete.

Ernie Ladd, DT. He was 6'9" 290 pounds.

 

[RaZon]

Nice call on Hayes. I've always thought these 3 players would fare decently in today's game in part cuz they had the physical frame for it.

Jim Parker, OG/OT. He was 6'3" n 273 pounds. He could easily put on another 20, 25, 30 pounds with today's weight training/diet.

Doug Atkins, DE. He was 6'8" 260 pounds I've read he was crazy strong and a pretty good athlete.

Ernie Ladd, DT. He was 6'9" 290 pounds.

Hayes was actually a running back at Florida A&M, would love to have seen him play that position in the NFL., a Lenny Moore type thing.

As you know Parker had Johnny U's backside and is considered to be the greatest tackle in his era. Yes he'd be a stud right now with an added 20 pounds of muscle.

Atkins was a giant in his day, he would be tossing guys around today at 260. Hillbillie power!!!

Both Parker and Atkins in the HOF.

Ernie Ladd is actually bigger in the pro rasslin' world than he was as a pro footballer. Imagine him standing right beside the 6-7 270 Buck Buchanon both out of Grambing. It was Buchanon who was the real stud, he is in the HOF.

Those Chiefs teams were amazing, imagine a defense with six HOFers to be on it, damn!!!!

 

[RaZon]

Who?

Was a safety/cornerback, nine time pro bowler, four time All Pro, a Hall of Famer. He returned 4 punts to score and 1 kickoff. He had one of the coolest nicknames.

 

[RaZon]

So I asked the question......could a 180 pound QB play in todays NFL? Asked that at three other sites I post on, the overwelming consensus was.......no way in hell he would get killed.......more or less, the closest thing to yes he could was......if Tom Brady lost 50 pounds he could.....ha!!!!!

So I am done with that silliness now, it was actually ridiculous to begin with.


The norm...

Not for long is how I see it. At 180 and being typical QB height at around 6' 3" or so, he's a stringbean that the defensive linemen would feast on, for about 3-4 good hits then it's likely all over. Those guys are averaging 6'5" and close to 300 lbs. each with quickness to boot, so it wouldn't take many hits to sideline a QB that small.

I've been following football since the late 50's and can't think of any top QB that was that light, and players were generally a good bit smaller back then.

ETA: There were some under 200 lbs. like Tarkenton, Starr and Unitas, but they were in the 190 + range, but defensive players back then were probably 50-60 lbs. lighter rushing them.

 

[RaZon]

This just came in....

I doubt it. I would say no. Football unlike boxing, has evolved considerably. The old model for the QB IMO can be represented by one of my favorites, Ken Stabler, of the
REAL Oakland Raiders, when they were the Oakland Raiders... Stabler was tough as nails, smart as a whip and mean as a Rattler. From the likes of Stabler we got QB's that were a little more athletic, but cut from a similar cloth... montana for example. Most QB's in the early eighties and up through were very smart, had to be able to athletically hold up and implement a system... Like the West Coast offense. parcels was probably the model for a coach that literally scripted a whole playbook for a game... This approach necessitated QB's with great memory, and the abilty to adjust fast while keeping to a wholistic strategy for controling the clock. This was step up from QB's that just had to function play to play, with some scripted plays.

But nowadays? We have Genetic dynasties like the manning family, etc... Today I would say an NFL QB, because of how the game has evolved, with 300 pound defenders who are fast, with super athletes, designed to play a position... MUST come into the position with superior genetics, athletic abilities usually reserved for elite athletes, and an IQ of at least 140ish with Eidemic memory, or close to...

Stabler today would not last a set. Montana, Elway, would fall down on their weaknesses, for montana this would be his arm, his lack of speed, for Elway, just not smart enough. The only possible exception I can think of might be Stauback. Incredible resourceful QB...

Theb QB's of today are like the heavyweight fighters of yesterday.... they are bred for the position, start very young, and have no weaknesses.

Guessing it's like 30-0 with....nope! Not one .....hell yes no problem!

 

[sonnyblack65]

So I asked the question......could a 180 pound QB play in todays NFL? Asked that at three other sites I post on, the overwelming consensus was.......no way in hell he would get killed.......more or less, the closest thing to yes he could was......if Tom Brady lost 50 pounds he could.....ha!!!!!

So I am done with that silliness now, it was actually ridiculous to begin with.


The norm...

Not for long is how I see it. At 180 and being typical QB height at around 6' 3" or so, he's a stringbean that the defensive linemen would feast on, for about 3-4 good hits then it's likely all over. Those guys are averaging 6'5" and close to 300 lbs. each with quickness to boot, so it wouldn't take many hits to sideline a QB that small.

I've been following football since the late 50's and can't think of any top QB that was that light, and players were generally a good bit smaller back then.

ETA: There were some under 200 lbs. like Tarkenton, Starr and Unitas, but they were in the 190 + range, but defensive players back then were probably 50-60 lbs. lighter rushing them.

I asked 100 people yesterday. Some said no, some said yes, some said maybe and most told me that they don't give a fuck

 

[RaZon]

I asked 100 people yesterday. Some said no, some said yes, some said maybe and most told me that they don't give a fuck

I didn't get one.....don't give a fuck. I got what I knew I would......hell no that;s crazy.....more or less. Which is it as all real football know. a 180er back there wouldn't last three games and everybody knows this.

By the way, don't believe you.

 

[Breed]

Hayes was actually a running back at Florida A&M, would love to have seen him play that position in the NFL., a Lenny Moore type thing.

As you know Parker had Johnny U's backside and is considered to be the greatest tackle in his era. Yes he'd be a stud right now with an added 20 pounds of muscle.

Atkins was a giant in his day, he would be tossing guys around today at 260. Hillbillie power!!!

Both Parker and Atkins in the HOF.

Ernie Ladd is actually bigger in the pro rasslin' world than he was as a pro footballer. Imagine him standing right beside the 6-7 270 Buck Buchanon both out of Grambing. It was Buchanon who was the real stud, he is in the HOF.

Those Chiefs teams were amazing, imagine a defense with six HOFers to be on it, damn!!!!

Buchanan was another player I've read about that the consensus was 100% of him being pretty damn amazing. I can't remember who it was, but they said Buchanan could've played safety or RB. He could've played in this era.

I remember Ernie Ladd more from wrestling than I do football. I didn't start watching football till 1972 at the age of 10 when my dad got stationed at Warner Robbins AFB in Georgia.

I did get to see the Sreelers defense lead by the Steel Curtain from start to finish. Greene, Lambert, Ham, Blount and Shell. So they had 5 HOFers. 6 members from the same defense, has to be some type of record I would imagine.

What do you think of Jim Brown? For all his greatness, he refused to block. I've seen him say that's one of the biggest regrets he has far as football goes and that wouldn't fly in today's NFL. I think its a huge negative against him and I wonder if those Browns team could've won more than a single title had he been good with blocking.

 

[Breed]

Oh, and I'm not seeing a 180 pound QB lasting long even in today's NFL. Hell, I'm not if many of today's QBs could handle the game the way it was played back in the 70s n 80s.

 

[RaZon]

Buchanan was another player I've read about that the consensus was 100% of him being pretty damn amazing. I can't remember who it was, but they said Buchanan could've played safety or RB. He could've played in this era.

I remember Ernie Ladd more from wrestling than I do football. I didn't start watching football till 1972 at the age of 10 when my dad got stationed at Warner Robbins AFB in Georgia.

I did get to see the Sreelers defense lead by the Steel Curtain from start to finish. Greene, Lambert, Ham, Blount and Shell. So they had 5 HOFers. 6 members from the same defense, has to be some type of record I would imagine.

What do you think of Jim Brown? For all his greatness, he refused to block. I've seen him say that's one of the biggest regrets he has far as football goes and that wouldn't fly in today's NFL. I think its a huge negative against him and I wonder if those Browns team could've won more than a single title had he been good with blocking.

Buchanon was a stud basketballler in high school, so he could run. Don't see safety but can't rule out RB or more a FB. Great great player!

Ernie Ladd vs Andre the Giant,,,,,had to love it!
.
That Steeler D was incredible, L.C.Greenwood....Ernie Holmes....Dwight "Mad Dog" White..."Mean Joe Greene.....the best D line we have seen and all small school guys. That Steeler team had those you mentioned and Webster, Franco, Bradshaw, Stallworth and Swann (hmmm?) No other team ever had 10 HOFers to be all there together, those Lombardi Packer teams with nine, 4 on the defense. The Chiefs with.....Buchanon, Culp, Bell, Lanier, Thomas and Robinson had six HOFers to be on that defense.

Jim Brown was a freak of nature in his day, there had never been anyone that size (6-2 230) with that agility, elusiveness and speed. He was as big as those trying to tackle him and faster than the DB;s (mosty white guys), He actually returned kickoffs early on, a 230 pound kick returner, really? To average 100 yards a game and over five yards a carry for nine seasons is entering the supernatural relm. He could play today but wouldn;t have the success he had back then.

As far as blocking go, it is a shame he played that, while he was so great we let it slide it does hurt his legacy. Not sure the impact his blocking would have had on team success, just know it would have helped.

One thing he did do that was unique was he got up real slow, talking real slow. When asked about it he....."that way if shaken up nobody will know"....ha!

 

[RaZon]

Oh, and I'm not seeing a 180 pound QB lasting long even in today's NFL. Hell, I'm not if many of today's QBs could handle the game the way it was played back in the 70s n 80s.

I think I was being trolled, everyone agrees with you. No way in hell a QB that small would work in todays NFL.

Do think these current QB;s are superior to what we saw 40/50 years ago.

 

[RaZon]

Getting back to those 70's Steeler teams...

Have we ever seen a more diverse collection of different levels of college football on a pro team?

Franco...Penn State as was Jack Ham
Swann.....USC
Stallworth,...Alabama A&M or was it Alabama St
Rocky....Notre Dame
Bradshaw....Louisiana Tech
"Mean Joe" North Texas State
Lambert Kent State
That stud D line.....Arkansas Pine Bluff...Texas Southern,,,,East Texas State,,,,the above North Texas State
Mel Blount.....Southern U
Mike Webster....Wisconsin

Hmmmm?

 

[Breed]

I think I was being trolled, everyone agrees with you. No way in hell a QB that small would work in todays NFL.

Do think these current QB;s are superior to what we saw 40/50 years ago.

I would say yes far as today's QBs being superior, but they also have every type of advantage as well. Today's QB and players in general if they are at the level of what we would call an above average player at their position. Has huge advantages over players from 40+ years ago.

The money that players today make, especially QBs, allows for them to focus solely on becoming a better QB. And that's not say today's players don't have other interests outside of the game. But having to get n work at an offseason job is definitely not one of them. Throw in the 24/7/365 dietary plans of today players can engage in. As well as the superior surgeries and medications of today. I remember reading in the 70s how a lotta players worked in the offseason selling cars in the city they played in. Not sure how many players are doing that today. Being the commercial face of a local car dealership n getting a brand new ride every couple years, sure. Going into the dealership every Mon-Fri from 9 to 5, nagatory.