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Horror Movies

returnofjakedog

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Koreans are dominating rate now...


The Japanese used to rule the Asian horror market, but South Korea is in domination mode over recent years. In fact it can easily be argued that S.K. has been better than the USA over the last 4 years or so.

The series looks potentially good. I am a bit concerned that it could be a bit too tween oriented, and/or cgi usage. But if they keep a dark, gritty edge, and use the cgi only as necessary it could be very good.
 

returnofjakedog

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So I just finished watching the American Horror : 1984 season 9.


Starts as a standard 1980s slasher, but shifts into.....something else. All in all, a decent and fun watch but, much like previous seasons, it tends to go in too many directions and focus on a large ensemble of characters so it gets a bit muddled and thin.

The good:
*Acting is ok. A few strong performances and none that stood out as bad (except for maybe the "pretty boy"?). The guy that plays Richard Ramirez was really good! He stole the show imo.
*Character development. Every character gets quite a bit of screen time and pesonality development.
*Overall good fxs and gore. No real over-the-top stuff but lots of cutting and chopping and bleeding going on.

The bad:
*Like I said, a lot going on. They pull the story in many different directions, and while each of the directions is relatively strong it is a bit hard to really invest in all of them. The lead final girl's story wasn't the strongest of the bunch either. Her redemption arch and final girl bad assery were a bit too color-by-numbers to the genre.
Now it should be noted that this is a series and not a movie so you need to have a lot of stories and character arches going on. The American Horror Story is a bit infamous for trying to do too much and this one is closer to pulling it off then some of the other seasons but it still would have benefitted with a little of a less is more mindset.
*A couple of the actors were "meh".
*Bad ending. I want dark, gritty endings in my horror, not fluff.
*Not really scary at any point. More of a tongue in cheek send up of the 80s horror with emphasis on the slasher genre. They spare no opportunity to you go into "'member the '80s?" mode.

Overall worth a watch imo. 7 out of 10.
Starts as a straight ahead '80s slasher complete with the stereotypical youth at a Friday the 13th camp with a lake. But that is just a cover as it quickly adds demons with a dash of occult, ghosts, an insane asylum, several different misdirections, betrayals, etc.
 

seattlefan75

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Sweet homes kinda looks like a spin off of the quiet place movie
 

FaCe-LeE-uS

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So I just finished watching the American Horror : 1984 season 9.


Starts as a standard 1980s slasher, but shifts into.....something else. All in all, a decent and fun watch but, much like previous seasons, it tends to go in too many directions and focus on a large ensemble of characters so it gets a bit muddled and thin.

The good:
*Acting is ok. A few strong performances and none that stood out as bad (except for maybe the "pretty boy"?). The guy that plays Richard Ramirez was really good! He stole the show imo.
*Character development. Every character gets quite a bit of screen time and pesonality development.
*Overall good fxs and gore. No real over-the-top stuff but lots of cutting and chopping and bleeding going on.

The bad:
*Like I said, a lot going on. They pull the story in many different directions, and while each of the directions is relatively strong it is a bit hard to really invest in all of them. The lead final girl's story wasn't the strongest of the bunch either. Her redemption arch and final girl bad assery were a bit too color-by-numbers to the genre.
Now it should be noted that this is a series and not a movie so you need to have a lot of stories and character arches going on. The American Horror Story is a bit infamous for trying to do too much and this one is closer to pulling it off then some of the other seasons but it still would have benefitted with a little of a less is more mindset.
*A couple of the actors were "meh".
*Bad ending. I want dark, gritty endings in my horror, not fluff.
*Not really scary at any point. More of a tongue in cheek send up of the 80s horror with emphasis on the slasher genre. They spare no opportunity to you go into "'member the '80s?" mode.

Overall worth a watch imo. 7 out of 10.
Starts as a straight ahead '80s slasher complete with the stereotypical youth at a Friday the 13th camp with a lake. But that is just a cover as it quickly adds demons with a dash of occult, ghosts, an insane asylum, several different misdirections, betrayals, etc.
Just finished this last week! And spot on assessment. Pretty decent homage to the 80's slasher genre, namely Ft13th. And yes, they get very "AHS-y" with it. Kinda funny how at 1 point or another they made every. single. character. turn into a killer. They just can't help themselves sometimes. They love to blur the plot by pulling you in 10-20 different direction before finally grabbing hold of 1-2 threads and slowly pulling them into focus through all the muck of other threads. Its a unique concept and AHS & is a trademark of the show. AHS: Apocalypse was a great example of that. Aside from the misdirects they do tend to invest too much into certain threads that end up being somewhat dull, leaving others to rot by turning a 180 on those characters and making them suddenly stop whatever they were doing (or killing them off altogether). AHS writers have always done this. They are heavy handed with plot progression without thinking about the endgame.

Agreed on the cast being largely 'meh'. Only 3-4 characters really pulled their weight. Emma Roberts is ok, but I don't think I've ever been in awe of her acting prowess. She does the job, but always leaves me thinking there could have been more. Makes me yearn for Sarah Paulson, Jessica Lange, or Taissa Farmiga. Although this 1984 role was a farcry from Roberts' usual vengeful bitch role in seasons' past. Also there's something about Leslie Grossman that annoys the hell outta me lol. Her camp counselor image was cringe-worthy.

I enjoyed AHS: 1984. Not sure if I want to call it a top 5 AHS season just yet, but it's certainly better than others. Even though they still muddied the waters with so many plot threads they still took a somewhat simpler approach. Seems like their best work always comes with more realistic concepts, as opposed to the outlandish sci-fi stuff.

Looking forward to AHS Season 10... Peters, Paulson & Bates back in the fold. Still trying to come up with theories on the plot. So far all I've come up with are mermaids lol.
 

returnofjakedog

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Just finished this last week! And spot on assessment. Pretty decent homage to the 80's slasher genre, namely Ft13th. And yes, they get very "AHS-y" with it. Kinda funny how at 1 point or another they made every. single. character. turn into a killer. They just can't help themselves sometimes. They love to blur the plot by pulling you in 10-20 different direction before finally grabbing hold of 1-2 threads and slowly pulling them into focus through all the muck of other threads. Its a unique concept and AHS & is a trademark of the show. AHS: Apocalypse was a great example of that. Aside from the misdirects they do tend to invest too much into certain threads that end up being somewhat dull, leaving others to rot by turning a 180 on those characters and making them suddenly stop whatever they were doing (or killing them off altogether). AHS writers have always done this. They are heavy handed with plot progression without thinking about the endgame.

Agreed on the cast being largely 'meh'. Only 3-4 characters really pulled their weight. Emma Roberts is ok, but I don't think I've ever been in awe of her acting prowess. She does the job, but always leaves me thinking there could have been more. Makes me yearn for Sarah Paulson, Jessica Lange, or Taissa Farmiga. Although this 1984 role was a farcry from Roberts' usual vengeful bitch role in seasons' past. Also there's something about Leslie Grossman that annoys the hell outta me lol. Her camp counselor image was cringe-worthy.

I enjoyed AHS: 1984. Not sure if I want to call it a top 5 AHS season just yet, but it's certainly better than others. Even though they still muddied the waters with so many plot threads they still took a somewhat simpler approach. Seems like their best work always comes with more realistic concepts, as opposed to the outlandish sci-fi stuff.

Looking forward to AHS Season 10... Peters, Paulson & Bates back in the fold. Still trying to come up with theories on the plot. So far all I've come up with are mermaids lol.
It was a well done season overall but the tone might be my biggest issue. Other seasons go for creepy and disturbing but this one settled on "fun homage" which is fine and they do it well but my personal taste would prefer something darker, especially for the ending.

Getting some strong actors back for next season will help the quality. It will be interesting to see what they come up with.

For me the highlight of the AHS : 1984 season was the Richard Ramirez character and actor. He was creepy and intimidating but always exuded an air of swarthy sexuality. Plus the fact he slaughtered Kajagoogoo was pretty hilarious.
 

sonnyblack65

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Watching I see you now, solid movie!!!! Only thumbsdown is Helen Hunt's face.

 

UVA_Guy81

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If you are a horror aficionado you definitely need to see TCM. It is low budget, gritty, and "dark" (not lighting) as hell.
The original Hellraiser and Hellraiser 2 are both very good imo. Everything else in the series is questionable to complete crap. So if you saw later entries in the series you might have seen a film abortion, such as the recent Hellraiser: Judgement. It is complete crap.
I just watched the original Hellraiser earlier. Have to say, I really didn't get all that into it. Would you say that the 2nd one is better?
 

returnofjakedog

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I just watched the original Hellraiser earlier. Have to say, I really didn't get all that into it. Would you say that the 2nd one is better?
The 2nd one has a bigger budget, is more ambitious, and is a bit gorier, but it is basically more of the same. Similar plot, same main characters, writers, production, etc. If you didn't like the first you probably won't like the 2nd much either.
 

returnofjakedog

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I've been going down a lot of horror rabbit holes recently. Mostly weird and obscure cult movie stuff but some more "mainstream" (at least for horror) and one thing I stumbled across was a video synopsis of Friday the 13th discarded storylines.


The highlights;
*Originally there were no plans for a sequel but a $59 million box office on a ~$550,000 budget changed that in a hurry.
*Since Pamela Vorhees was decapitated and Jason really wasn't anything but a shock ending scare, the original idea was an completely unrelated storyline to make this an anthology series. You would think that Halloween 3 killed this plan but Friday the 13th Part 2 came out in '81 and Halloween 3 in '82, so I guess they just came to their senses?
*Part 3 was supposed to be Part 2's final girl Jenny in a hospital and Jason comes for revenge. This one was influenced by Halloween 2, and persumably scrapped for redundancy?
*After Part 5 : A New Beginning, where an ambulance driver dons the iconic hockey mask to avenge his dumbass son's death (that's right- no Jason!) they considered a part 6 where Tommy Jarvis becomes the killer.
*This is a personal "favorite" (though I am very happy it never got made)- For part 7 it was proposed that a Cheech and Chong meet Jason movie be made. Man, that would have been stupid! (though arguably no more stupid than some that were made).
*This is also when the Freddy vs Jason talks began. Instead they went full on "Carrie vs Jason" with the telekinetic final girl. But because of this, 3 scripts were considered for the next sequel:
-One where final girl Tina is released from an insane asylum and Jason comes after her.
-One where Tina has become a psychologist and leads a group of kids against Jason (because Dream Warriors was a hit?)
-One where Tina's boyfriend is actually the killer.
Obviously none of those 3 were made.
*Jason Goes to Hell- apparently a different script was considered where Jason's previously unknown brother is the killer instead of Big J.
*Not an unmade script persay, but the original Jason takes Manhattan was supposed to be much higher budget and many more NY scenes. All of that was cut for one scene in Times Square due to a constantly dwindling budget.
*Jason X, or Jason in Space considered Jason in the artic, in the hood, underwater, etc, etc, etc
*Freddy vs Jason: a whole bunch of different badideas tossed about, including-
-Jason and Freddy return to earth to compete as hell assassins where the highest soul collection counts gets to stay on on earth.
-Freddy was a Camp Crystal Lake counselor who drowned Jason back in the day.
-They box in a hell-ring made of entrails in a scene that apparently also contained Hitler, Ted Bundy, and Lee Harvey Oswald?!?
-An insane asylum where two characters think they are Jason and Freddy go on killing sprees. Note that all of the events in both series never occured in this scenerio as it was just the 2 inmates watching the movies that caused their delusions.
-Jason is on trial for murder. He somehow summons Freddy. They battle and eventually melt together into a two headed monster in a climactic scene in a burning mall.
-A cult of Freddy (known as Fred Heads) do a ritual to revive him but also mistakenly resurrect Jason when the throw a sacrificial heart into Crystal Lake.
-The Vorhees family was part of the mob that killed Freddy and he goes after Jason for revenge.
-A time traveling cop goes back in time and attempts to erase both Freddy and Jason from history.
-Also 2 versions that are the same except the ending- one where Jason wins, one where Freddy wins. They would play randomly in different theatres.
-Note that the original ending of FvJ had a Pinhead cameo written in.
Ok, enough of FvJ.
Recent potential reboots/tv series that were considered:
*Return to the start but with Jason always having supernatural powers.
*An origins reboot tv series with Pamela, and also Jason's dad in it.
*A direct sequel to Part 6. All movies after #6 are retconned

So those are the basics. Any ideas you find batshit crazy ridiculous? Any that you wish had been made, and if so, possibly replace existing movies in the series? Let me know if anyone has these or any other thoughts.
 

UVA_Guy81

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I've been going down a lot of horror rabbit holes recently. Mostly weird and obscure cult movie stuff but some more "mainstream" (at least for horror) and one thing I stumbled across was a video synopsis of Friday the 13th discarded storylines.


The highlights;
*Originally there were no plans for a sequel but a $59 million box office on a ~$550,000 budget changed that in a hurry.
*Since Pamela Vorhees was decapitated and Jason really wasn't anything but a shock ending scare, the original idea was an completely unrelated storyline to make this an anthology series. You would think that Halloween 3 killed this plan but Friday the 13th Part 2 came out in '81 and Halloween 3 in '82, so I guess they just came to their senses?
*Part 3 was supposed to be Part 2's final girl Jenny in a hospital and Jason comes for revenge. This one was influenced by Halloween 2, and persumably scrapped for redundancy?
*After Part 5 : A New Beginning, where an ambulance driver dons the iconic hockey mask to avenge his dumbass son's death (that's right- no Jason!) they considered a part 6 where Tommy Jarvis becomes the killer.
*This is a personal "favorite" (though I am very happy it never got made)- For part 7 it was proposed that a Cheech and Chong meet Jason movie be made. Man, that would have been stupid! (though arguably no more stupid than some that were made).
*This is also when the Freddy vs Jason talks began. Instead they went full on "Carrie vs Jason" with the telekinetic final girl. But because of this, 3 scripts were considered for the next sequel:
-One where final girl Tina is released from an insane asylum and Jason comes after her.
-One where Tina has become a psychologist and leads a group of kids against Jason (because Dream Warriors was a hit?)
-One where Tina's boyfriend is actually the killer.
Obviously none of those 3 were made.
*Jason Goes to Hell- apparently a different script was considered where Jason's previously unknown brother is the killer instead of Big J.
*Not an unmade script persay, but the original Jason takes Manhattan was supposed to be much higher budget and many more NY scenes. All of that was cut for one scene in Times Square due to a constantly dwindling budget.
*Jason X, or Jason in Space considered Jason in the artic, in the hood, underwater, etc, etc, etc
*Freddy vs Jason: a whole bunch of different badideas tossed about, including-
-Jason and Freddy return to earth to compete as hell assassins where the highest soul collection counts gets to stay on on earth.
-Freddy was a Camp Crystal Lake counselor who drowned Jason back in the day.
-They box in a hell-ring made of entrails in a scene that apparently also contained Hitler, Ted Bundy, and Lee Harvey Oswald?!?
-An insane asylum where two characters think they are Jason and Freddy go on killing sprees. Note that all of the events in both series never occured in this scenerio as it was just the 2 inmates watching the movies that caused their delusions.
-Jason is on trial for murder. He somehow summons Freddy. They battle and eventually melt together into a two headed monster in a climactic scene in a burning mall.
-A cult of Freddy (known as Fred Heads) do a ritual to revive him but also mistakenly resurrect Jason when the throw a sacrificial heart into Crystal Lake.
-The Vorhees family was part of the mob that killed Freddy and he goes after Jason for revenge.
-A time traveling cop goes back in time and attempts to erase both Freddy and Jason from history.
-Also 2 versions that are the same except the ending- one where Jason wins, one where Freddy wins. They would play randomly in different theatres.
-Note that the original ending of FvJ had a Pinhead cameo written in.
Ok, enough of FvJ.
Recent potential reboots/tv series that were considered:
*Return to the start but with Jason always having supernatural powers.
*An origins reboot tv series with Pamela, and also Jason's dad in it.
*A direct sequel to Part 6. All movies after #6 are retconned

So those are the basics. Any ideas you find batshit crazy ridiculous? Any that you wish had been made, and if so, possibly replace existing movies in the series? Let me know if anyone has these or any other thoughts.
I remember that they were thinking about having Pinhead becoming involved with the feud and wasn't there something about making the comic of Freddy vs Jason vs Ash into a movie at one point?
 

FaCe-LeE-uS

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Unhinged (2020)... Russell Crowe is a madman! Pretty wild sequence of events in this one, and frighteningly realistic. Some moments felt a little implausible, but it was passable. Side note: my wife & I debated for the first half hour whether or not Crowe was wearing a body suit or if he really put on that much weight. He was pretty chubby for the filming, but he had to be wearing additional padding.

The Rental (2020)... Somewhat slow, and didn't care much for the entire first half of the movie. Not a bad watch though once things pick up a bit. I was laughing pretty hard at the scene where they are trying to dump the caretaker off the cliff. Yes I am morbid.
 

returnofjakedog

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I remember that they were thinking about having Pinhead becoming involved with the feud and wasn't there something about making the comic of Freddy vs Jason vs Ash into a movie at one point?
Yeah. The Freddy vs Jason vs Ash was heavily rumored but I believe that was after the FvJ movie? But the FvJ preproduction was over a decade so not sure on the timeline.
Also getting "property owners" to agree just on using Freddy and Jason was hard enough, let alone trying to get Ash into the equation.
Last note is that there is only one Ash (Bruce Campbell), so he also would hold a key to approval. It's not like you can just plug another actor in there and say " That's Ash!"
tv show wink GIF by Ash vs Evil Dead
 

UVA_Guy81

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Yeah. The Freddy vs Jason vs Ash was heavily rumored but I believe that was after the FvJ movie? But the FvJ preproduction was over a decade so not sure on the timeline.
Also getting "property owners" to agree just on using Freddy and Jason was hard enough, let alone trying to get Ash into the equation.
Last note is that there is only one Ash (Bruce Campbell), so he also would hold a key to approval. It's not like you can just plug another actor in there and say " That's Ash!"
tv show wink GIF by Ash vs Evil Dead
I figured that the Freddy and Jason part of that equation was fine since both characters were under New Line Cinema. The Ash character I could see as tricky to obtain as I have no idea if Universal still had the rights at that time frame or not. But figured that Bruce would’ve been up for doing it at that point in time.
 

returnofjakedog

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I figured that the Freddy and Jason part of that equation was fine since both characters were under New Line Cinema. The Ash character I could see as tricky to obtain as I have no idea if Universal still had the rights at that time frame or not. But figured that Bruce would’ve been up for doing it at that point in time.
But they weren't both with New Line at the time the production negotiations started. Paramount owned the rights to the Friday the 13th franchise but they let it go after dwindling box office numbers hit the franchise.
From wiki:
"When Jason Takes Manhattan failed to perform successfully at the box office, Sean Cunningham decided that he wanted to reacquire the rights to Friday the 13th from Paramount and start working with New Line Cinema on Freddy vs. Jason, as New Line owned the Nightmare on Elm Street franchise. The concept of a fight between Freddy and Jason was not new, since Paramount had approached New Line about filming a crossover years before the latter had gained the licensing rights to Friday the 13th. At that time, both companies wanted the license to the other's character so that they could control the making of the film. Negotiations on the project were never finalized, which led Paramount to make The New Blood. After Jason Takes Manhattan was released in 1989, the rights reverted to Scuderi, Minasian, and Barsamianto, who sold them to New Line. Before Cunningham could start working on Freddy vs. Jason, Wes Craven returned to New Line to make New Nightmare. This effectively put Freddy vs. Jason on hold, but allowed Cunningham the chance to bring Jason back into the spotlight with Jason Goes to Hell. The ninth installment "turned a healthy profit", though it was only intended to open the door for a crossover with Freddy Krueger rather than to start a new series for New Line. Ultimately, the film series would go through another sequel before that would happen.

Cunningham's "frustration" with the delayed development of the Freddy vs. Jason project forced him to create another sequel in an effort to keep the franchise in the minds of audiences. Based on Jason Takes Manhattan's concept of taking Jason away from Crystal Lake, the 10th film would put the titular character in space. The film suffered from the loss of its biggest supporter, President of Production Michael De Luca, when he resigned from his position. Lack of support forced the finished film to sit for two years before finally being released on April 26, 2002, and it would go on to become the lowest-grossing film in the franchise at the domestic box office. It also held the distinction of having the largest budget of any of the previous films at that time. After more than 15 years of off-and-on development, and approximately $6 million spent in 18 unused scripts from more than a dozen screenwriters, New Line finally produced a Freddy and Jason crossover for 2003."

All of that for a mediocre movie.
 

UVA_Guy81

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But they weren't both with New Line at the time the production negotiations started. Paramount owned the rights to the Friday the 13th franchise but they let it go after dwindling box office numbers hit the franchise.
From wiki:
"When Jason Takes Manhattan failed to perform successfully at the box office, Sean Cunningham decided that he wanted to reacquire the rights to Friday the 13th from Paramount and start working with New Line Cinema on Freddy vs. Jason, as New Line owned the Nightmare on Elm Street franchise. The concept of a fight between Freddy and Jason was not new, since Paramount had approached New Line about filming a crossover years before the latter had gained the licensing rights to Friday the 13th. At that time, both companies wanted the license to the other's character so that they could control the making of the film. Negotiations on the project were never finalized, which led Paramount to make The New Blood. After Jason Takes Manhattan was released in 1989, the rights reverted to Scuderi, Minasian, and Barsamianto, who sold them to New Line. Before Cunningham could start working on Freddy vs. Jason, Wes Craven returned to New Line to make New Nightmare. This effectively put Freddy vs. Jason on hold, but allowed Cunningham the chance to bring Jason back into the spotlight with Jason Goes to Hell. The ninth installment "turned a healthy profit", though it was only intended to open the door for a crossover with Freddy Krueger rather than to start a new series for New Line. Ultimately, the film series would go through another sequel before that would happen.

Cunningham's "frustration" with the delayed development of the Freddy vs. Jason project forced him to create another sequel in an effort to keep the franchise in the minds of audiences. Based on Jason Takes Manhattan's concept of taking Jason away from Crystal Lake, the 10th film would put the titular character in space. The film suffered from the loss of its biggest supporter, President of Production Michael De Luca, when he resigned from his position. Lack of support forced the finished film to sit for two years before finally being released on April 26, 2002, and it would go on to become the lowest-grossing film in the franchise at the domestic box office. It also held the distinction of having the largest budget of any of the previous films at that time. After more than 15 years of off-and-on development, and approximately $6 million spent in 18 unused scripts from more than a dozen screenwriters, New Line finally produced a Freddy and Jason crossover for 2003."

All of that for a mediocre movie.
I was thinking that after part 8 didn’t do well, that New Line went and bought the rights to the character but Paramount retained the rights to the Friday the 13th titles, which is why the New Line movies used Jason in the titles but not Friday the 13th. And after the versus movie that at some point, the Jason character went back to Paramount and then got the reboot as a result.
As for the versus movie, I enjoyed it for what it was (definitely not even close to the worst film for either franchise) but still feel that it should’ve been Kane Hodder behind the mask instead of Ken Kerzinger, not that it would’ve made a huge difference. Just wish they got a better director.
 

returnofjakedog

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I was thinking that after part 8 didn’t do well, that New Line went and bought the rights to the character but Paramount retained the rights to the Friday the 13th titles, which is why the New Line movies used Jason in the titles but not Friday the 13th. And after the versus movie that at some point, the Jason character went back to Paramount and then got the reboot as a result.
As for the versus movie, I enjoyed it for what it was (definitely not even close to the worst film for either franchise) but still feel that it should’ve been Kane Hodder behind the mask instead of Ken Kerzinger, not that it would’ve made a huge difference. Just wish they got a better director.
Yeah, it wasn't the worst of either franchise.

Now the rights are tied up in another battle:
"A quirk of U.S. copyright law allows the original author of a written work the right to revoke a copyright agreement 35 years after it was originally granted.
Victor Miller attempted to do this, and therefore reclaim the rights to Friday the 13th and its surrounding property from Cunnigham's Horror Inc., who formerly controlled the franchise. Cunningham, meanwhile, has argued that Miller's script was a work for hire, and thus according to applicable laws, the work and its intellectual property belongs to Miller's employer, and should thus remain with Horror Inc. This had led to a protracted court case, with Miller at one point winning, but Cunningham trying to overturn the judgment on appeal."

So apparently this remains ongoing in the appeal process. However there is optimism that after his court loss that Cunningham will be motivated to make a settlement soon.

I hate it when this crap happens. It has killed good franchises before. I'm still really, really pissed we didn't get another movie in the 28 Days Later franchise because the people making money off them can't agree on how it should be split up.
 
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