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Bye Week News, Next Up - Redskins vs Giants

Breed

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OK, I'll bite, what's the scenario?

In addition, what's the scenario in which he could improve and the guy (DH) with the greater tools and upside could not?

Allen continues to get PT and DH doesn't. That's pretty much the only way it goes down. The same can be said for DH, he needs PT to improve. Unfortunately it looks like that avenue has been pretty much shut down for DH by RR. As of right now, the only way it opens back up is with injury to one of the active QBs on the roster.
 

Sportster 72

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Allen continues to get PT and DH doesn't. That's pretty much the only way it goes down. The same can be said for DH, he needs PT to improve. Unfortunately it looks like that avenue has been pretty much shut down for DH by RR. As of right now, the only way it opens back up is with injury to one of the active QBs on the roster.
In the olden days young QBs sat behind a vet and learned. Rypien behind Williams, Theismann behind Sonny and Billy, Sonny behind Van Brocklin. Even Cousins had to wait until his fourth year until he was named the starter. Dwayne still has time to improve. He has to want to.
 

Breed

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In the olden days young QBs sat behind a vet and learned. Rypien behind Williams, Theismann behind Sonny and Billy, Sonny behind Van Brocklin. Even Cousins had to wait until his fourth year until he was named the starter. Dwayne still has time to improve. He has to want to.

I don't disagree, but DH is not even on the active roster as far as I know. That's not to say he can't learn being inactive, but I venture to say. Every QB you've mentioned far as needing to learn was at least dressed out and there too be called upon if absolutely necessary. The fact that DH isn't has to say something and I don't think that something reflects very positively for DH.
 

duke1861

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I don't disagree, but DH is not even on the active roster as far as I know. That's not to say he can't learn being inactive, but I venture to say. Every QB you've mentioned far as needing to learn was at least dressed out and there too be called upon if absolutely necessary. The fact that DH isn't has to say something and I don't think that something reflects very positively for DH.

This has been mishandled by RR and Smith and the fact that he is still on the roster is even more puzzling. I don't think either one of them has a clue as what to do. The fact that they could not trade DH after devaluing him is unacceptable. If you do not believe in DH then that should have been made clearer up front and...they should have traded him before the start of the season. AZ did that with Rosen last year so it can be done.

The problem is that it appears now that they have done such a good job of running him in the ground, now, no other team in the NFL wants him. It appears nobody wants him so we have completely wasted one of our 2019 1st round picks. It is conceivable that DH will get cut this offseason and we will look like a disfunctional organization once again.

I am also confused why we did not attempt to trade any of our players. Perhaps they did but that goes back to the last offseason issue. These guys are not closers. Either RR and Smith have no clue how to secure a trade or they literally believe every one of our players are contributing to this team and will be here for the long haul. There are two facts that escape these two bozos:

1. We are awful
2. We need to acquire more draft captial to build through the draft

I honestly think RR thinks we are close to competing. That is his first mistake. Secondly, if we are going to build through the draft, we need a surplus of draft picks to do that. We need to load up on picks to build a foundation. You are either rebuilding or contending and the fact we did nothing during the deadline makes me believe that Smith and RR believe the team is somewhere in between. I am personally glad we did NOT trade for any players. However, I am confused why we did not trade any players.

We are in for a 5 year rebuild if we stay with RR and Smith. Just when you think they have played their last stupid game, the do something else. Play stupid games...win stupid prizes they say. This front office is embarassing.
 

Breed

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@duke1861

The only half ass semi-decent reason I can think of far as how Haskins was handled this year. Is that Snyder told RR he was gonna open up the year as the starter with no ifs ands n butts. Then after 4 games, Snyder himself had seen enough and told RR do as you want. If anyone has a better rationale I'm all ears.

I'm not sure much if any effort was made to trade any of our players even those who could've had value to other clubs namely RK and Ryan Anderson. RR and Turner may believe we're close to competing for the NFC East, they can't believe we're close to competing with the top tier teams in the NFL though. That would be crazy....unless, like so many WFT fans, they started to believe some of the more lofty rankings the defense has attained in playing 2 of the bottom dwellers in NYG n Dallas. I can't call it. To be honest this year doesn't seem a whole lot different from some of the more recent dysfunctional years during Snyder's tenure.

The NFL needs to conclude its investigation and take this team away from Snyder. That is our best n probably only real hope for any real change to actually take place.
 

skinsdad62

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Who the hell is going to give anything of value for DH ? But smith is an idiot ? Foolish take
 

duke1861

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Who the hell is going to give anything of value for DH ? But smith is an idiot ? Foolish take

Nah...nah...nah...

The fact that we hired an average coach with no personnel experience to be the football czar and paired him with a rookie psuedo GM with no personnel experience to rebuilt the worst roster in the NFL was foolish.

Smith is fine with drafting but he appears out of his league in Year 1.

The fact that this front office took a first round QB and have devalued him in the eyes of the league is on RR. DH is not perfect but to go from 1st round pick to almost being out of the league in 1 year is almost unheard of.
 

duke1861

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@duke1861

The only half ass semi-decent reason I can think of far as how Haskins was handled this year. Is that Snyder told RR he was gonna open up the year as the starter with no ifs ands n butts. Then after 4 games, Snyder himself had seen enough and told RR do as you want. If anyone has a better rationale I'm all ears.

I'm not sure much if any effort was made to trade any of our players even those who could've had value to other clubs namely RK and Ryan Anderson. RR and Turner may believe we're close to competing for the NFC East, they can't believe we're close to competing with the top tier teams in the NFL though. That would be crazy....unless, like so many WFT fans, they started to believe some of the more lofty rankings the defense has attained in playing 2 of the bottom dwellers in NYG n Dallas. I can't call it. To be honest this year doesn't seem a whole lot different from some of the more recent dysfunctional years during Snyder's tenure.

The NFL needs to conclude its investigation and take this team away from Snyder. That is our best n probably only real hope for any real change to actually take place.

When RR is let go, it will be because of his player personnel decisions and roster management...not his coaching.

We needed a real GM to fix this. I do not trust RR or Smith to build this roster. Of course I am called out for "not being patient" but if you like the returns so far....you are watching a different team. I am afraid that the flood of injuries Dallas has had, the off year Philly is having and the rebuild the Giants are going through is giving RR and fans a false sense of confidence. We are not that good.
 

skinsdad62

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Nah...nah...nah...

The fact that we hired an average coach with no personnel experience to be the football czar and paired him with a rookie psuedo GM with no personnel experience to rebuilt the worst roster in the NFL was foolish.

Smith is fine with drafting but he appears out of his league in Year 1.

The fact that this front office took a first round QB and have devalued him in the eyes of the league is on RR. DH is not perfect but to go from 1st round pick to almost being out of the league in 1 year is almost unheard of.
Based on what Duke , your speculation ?
 

Stymietee

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Allen continues to get PT and DH doesn't. That's pretty much the only way it goes down. The same can be said for DH, he needs PT to improve. Unfortunately it looks like that avenue has been pretty much shut down for DH by RR. As of right now, the only way it opens back up is with injury to one of the active QBs on the roster.
I keep insisting that DH is their guy, apparently, nobody here believes that or are willing to give this young man the benefit of doubt that is typically afforded young mid to high first round QB's. The questions related to why this is happening, I'll leave to the conscience of individual posters. In the meantime, I'm just going to offer this little nugget in support of my position...

Please take note of what Ron Rivera says in this piece.

Could Washington turn back to Dwayne Haskins as QB1 for ...
 

duke1861

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Based on what Duke , your speculation ?
Based on history and what I have seen so far. I am much more sceptical of the team than you are and history has proven that football czars generally don't work out.

I know you are a fan of RR and Smith but so far, I am not impressed. They failed to improve the team and team future at the deadline and that makes no sense. I didn't want to trade anyone at this point but did think we had the chance to get a draft picks.

At this point, RR could trade Young for 2046 6th round pick and I think you and I would argue with it. Go ahead and bookmark the thread that RR will be let go because of his poor front office strategy. Again, being patient and letting RR and Smith do whatever they want despite common sense is not a sound strategy.
 

duke1861

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I keep insisting that DH is their guy, apparently, nobody here believes that or are willing to give this young man the benefit of doubt that is typically afforded young mid to high first round QB's. The questions related to why this is happening, I'll leave to the conscience of individual posters. In the meantime, I'm just going to offer this little nugget in support of my position...

Please take note of what Ron Rivera says in this piece.

Could Washington turn back to Dwayne Haskins as QB1 for ...
Thats because RR is an idiot and is playing mind games with DH. He needs to pick a lane and stick to it. Neither he nor Smith have any clue what to do here. He should have traded DH in the offseason if he was never the guy. Instead, he lost all trade leverage by handling this so poorly. Another mistake by the circus.
 

Stymietee

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When RR is let go, it will be because of his player personnel decisions and roster management...not his coaching.

We needed a real GM to fix this. I do not trust RR or Smith to build this roster. Of course I am called out for "not being patient" but if you like the returns so far....you are watching a different team. I am afraid that the flood of injuries Dallas has had, the off year Philly is having and the rebuild the Giants are going through is giving RR and fans a false sense of confidence. We are not that good.
There were all kinds of reports that the guy they wanted was Louis Riddick as GM. I still believe that he is by far the best choice here and in high demand hereafter. That said, all talk of hiring Mr. Riddick ended with the hire of Mr. Rivera. Coincidence? Perhaps, but I tend to think not primarily because Mr. Riddick has made it known that he is a big supporter of Dwayne Haskins while Mr. Rivera's support of the same remains loaded with questions.
 

duke1861

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There were all kinds of reports that the guy they wanted was Louis Riddick as GM. I still believe that he is by far the best choice here and in high demand hereafter. That said, all talk of hiring Mr. Riddick ended with the hire of Mr. Rivera. Coincidence? Perhaps, but I tend to think not primarily because Mr. Riddick has made it known that he is a big supporter of Dwayne Haskins while Mr. Rivera's support of the same remains loaded with questions.

I wanted Riddick and said that for quite sometime. A Riddick led front office would be much better than a RR/Smith front office. I am sure I will get called out but Riddick has expererience and relationships in the league. RR has only been a coach and Smith has only been involved in college scouting.

Riddick would have addressed the offense this offseason and we would not have a worthless 2019 1st round pick. I believe DH could be a good QB but that ship has sailed.
 

Stymietee

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Where Kyle learns ball security and makes better decisions when faced with uncertainty on the football field...ie stop pressing... That he elevates the players around him, not by being a transitional player himself, but because he understands his role on a TEAM and plays accordingly.

DH needs to do the work that is visible to all that he is about improving himself and TEAM (before brand and his own stats) and he should get a shot again. Doesn’t matter the talent, if you don’t recognize this in the real world, imo.
Not securing the ball... he's turned it over in every game that he's played thus far (fumble at the goal line on 4th and goal against Dallas) and "pressing" is who he is. Changing that would be akin to his growing into a 8 foot giant. There is the visual that seems to show the team as operating more smoothly with Allen playing, but that's an illusion bought about because he's playing against teams that are equal to or worse than Washington.

Hard to imagine that after all of his hard work in the off-season and numerous reports of Rivera himself praising the physical conditioning, film study and mental efforts of DH leading up to training camp, followed by the selection of Haskins as "QB1 for the full season." that DH suddenly stopped doing the work necessary after two starts, one bad game and his last that showed that he had rebounded from the previous bad game.
 

duke1861

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Not securing the ball... he's turned it over in every game that he's played thus far (fumble at the goal line on 4th and goal against Dallas) and "pressing" is who he is. Changing that would be akin to his growing into a 8 foot giant. There is the visual that seems to show the team as operating more smoothly with Allen playing, but that's an illusion bought about because he's playing against teams that are equal to or worse than Washington.

Hard to imagine that after all of his hard work in the off-season and numerous reports of Rivera himself praising the physical conditioning, film study and mental efforts of DH leading up to training camp, followed by the selection of Haskins as "QB1 for the full season." that DH suddenly stopped doing the work necessary after two starts, one bad game and his last that showed that he had rebounded from the previous bad game.

Something isn't adding up to be honest. I have no earthly clue. I wonder if there was something in the locker room or some other drama?
 

Stymietee

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@duke1861

The only half ass semi-decent reason I can think of far as how Haskins was handled this year. Is that Snyder told RR he was gonna open up the year as the starter with no ifs ands n butts. Then after 4 games, Snyder himself had seen enough and told RR do as you want. If anyone has a better rationale I'm all ears.
I have a better reason and it begins with Washington beating Carolina with, the rookie Haskins as starter and ends with Ron Rivera's dismissal. Petty? Absolutely!! but how else do we explain some of these early decisions, especially that "Test" that he offered as lending itself to some disappointment because Haskins didn't throw it into the end zone?

Next, it is altogether possible that trading for Kyle Allen was the clue leading to an intent to not play DH at some point. Let's be honest, without Allen the choice came down to starting Haskins or Smith who wasn't fully recovered. Add Allen to the mix and the decision comes down to starting Allen or Haskins. Forgoing, Haskins at the beginning of the season in favor of Allen and he might have been run out of town on a rail.

Finally, I don't believe that there's one HC, player or attentive fan who is unaware of an upcoming NFL schedule for their teams. Almost everyone looks at these schedules in order to figure out possible wins or losses leading to a successful season. With this in mind, I have zero doubts that Ron Rivera saw this schedule, and as the season played out, decided to play Allen in order to make that trade seem more valuable when starting him against far weaker opponents. How does this factor into the handling of DH? Well, if you have more confidence in the guy that you spent assets in trading for, than the one that you've inherited, well...
 

Stymietee

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I wanted Riddick and said that for quite sometime. A Riddick led front office would be much better than a RR/Smith front office. I am sure I will get called out but Riddick has expererience and relationships in the league. RR has only been a coach and Smith has only been involved in college scouting.

Riddick would have addressed the offense this offseason and we would not have a worthless 2019 1st round pick. I believe DH could be a good QB but that ship has sailed.
I agree with your first part, but you second is a bit puzzling. It could be a misunderstanding on my part but I still believe that DH is going to be a really good QB. Is it your point that "the ship has sailed" on him here or throughout the league?
 

skinz2winz

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Something isn't adding up to be honest. I have no earthly clue. I wonder if there was something in the locker room or some other drama?
This has certainly been an interesting change at QB with NO real justification other than, Kyle knows our offense better. Who cares, Dwayne has the physical tools that Allen does not have and once he learns the system inside and out, his ceiling has unlimited growth imo. What a ploy if this was RR's plan all along when bringing Allen in. I certainly hope not and would have rather seen DH improve with each game in RR's first year as HC.
 

Stymietee

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Something isn't adding up to be honest. I have no earthly clue. I wonder if there was something in the locker room or some other drama?
I agree, it's beyond what has or will happen on the field. My best guess is it's all about giving Kyle Allen every chance in the world to become, well... Kyle Allen. Perhaps there's something else about the guy that went 1-9 in Carolina and 1-2 here in D.C that's unconvincing to Rivera.
 
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